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After a long bout last night troubleshooting my DSL line at home followed by a second bout with psycho optical drives on my main machine (see my utterly baffled thread in the tech support forum), I managed to get ToEE installed by 10 pm.

Went through the tutorial. Gorgeous graphics. If you played Arcanum, you can see a more mature version of the characters and their movements on the game interface.

After the 15 minute tutorial, I took my time building a party (Ranger/Rogue, Monk, Druid, Bard, Sorcerer). The character design screen is very similar to NWN. I spent almost 90 minutes making the group although it could be done in less time (I took the time to plan out all feats for all party members during character creation). Oh yeah, party alignment is an interesting concept, 'nuff said.

Then you're thrown into the game. I only played for about 15 minutes so I'll just chat up the interface.

The interface is a cross between BG, IWD, and NWN. A really nice feature is the help ('?' on the interface). It is comprehensive and easy to navigate, one of the most effective help tools I've ever seen in a computer application or game.

Graphics are the smoothest yet in an isometric CRPG and the character renderings are very nice, extremely detailed. There is no zooming in and out with the mouse wheel. Spell effects seem to be outstanding. All I've seen are magic missile but it is cool, pretty certain other spells will follow suit. Sound effects are well done also, but the music has more of a techno feel and doesn't carry the atmosphere or drama that say....the music from BG2 injects into game play. Again, my time playing is very limited so perhaps such opinions will change.

Radial menus for PCs can be pulled up by right clicking on the character (not the icon, that pulls up an inventory screen just like BG2). The radial menu I found easy to navigate and better still you customize hot key everything in the game.

Turn based combat will take a little getting used to (like back in the way back with the original pool of radiance or curse of the azure bonds) but it flows well though not as fast as BG2. One thing that is nice with the turn based combat is that when a character is up, he'll perform his action. Don't know how many times I lost a character in BG2 because they just wouldn't consume that potion of extra healing or some spell never got cast.

The only real drags I've found so far are trivial. One, you cannot alter the formation of the group when they are moving as one (if that makes no sense what I'm talking about is the [hold down right mouse button and rotate to get the party members where you want them in BG2]). Two, if you pull up a map screen you can't highlight an area where the party members aren't. Another handy feature missing which I used frequently in BG2. Three, (no it's not the spanish inquisition), if you left click on a character portrait, the game auto centers on the newly highlighted character. I much prefer the one click highlight, double click auto center style of BG2.

But then again, don't we all pretty much prefer the little nuances in BG2 that made it so easy to play.

As far as party interaction and Role Playing, can't comment as I've not played it enough yet. I expect to find a few hours tonight to play.

All in all, I'd recommend it. It's got a pretty 'fresh' feel to it.

I would echo Ned's comments. I too spent about an hour setting up several parties last night. One of the neat features of the game is that the story changes based on party alignment - this will hopefully add to replay value. Basically I have created three different parties

Lawful good party - Paladin led

Chaotic Neutral Elf Party - Chaotic neutral with some rogues and rangers

True Nuetral - Nature Party - Druids, rangers, barbarians

By the time I got all my party members set I had only a half hour or so to play. The graphics and animations are very smooth - background music is high quality. The interface is going to take some getting used to - but seems fairly intuitive. The implementation of the 3.5 rules seems very thorough - all the feats and skills are there.

I am hoping that there is enough variation in the story for different party alignments as adverstised. All in all - the game has exceeded my expectations for polish and interface so far. Once I get some hours under my belt I will weigh in with my views on the gameplay and story.

"Two, if you pull up a map screen you can't highlight an area where the party members aren't. "

Actually, I've found that you can "click, grab, and drag" the map and move it to areas where you aren't.

Yeah Skullan, except when you exit the map screen, the game takes you back to where you were before entering the map screen.

I would recommend playing a bit further into the game before posting a glowing review. I've found this game sorely lacking not only in the "trivial" game mechanics you mentioned but also in its ability to hold my interest as compared to BG2, or even Arcanum. There seem to be virtually no roleplaying elements aside from the mechanical reaction of various NPCs to your party's alignment. Unlike BG2, none of the party followers come with interesting back stories or character quests. Most of the party quests, at least early in the game, at utterly inane (go convert the leatherworker to Cuthbert so the priest of Cuthbert will allow some other chap to leave the church for the Old Faith so the community will accept him? Come on!) Many of the feats seem to have been altered for the worse from the core rules (since when did Weapon Finesse have to be taken individually for each weapon? Perhaps this is a 3.5 revision, I haven't looked closely at that book, but if so it seems absurd), and the game abandons for the sake of "accuracy" some of the previous games' fudging of the rules for the sake of playability (paying 100 gp to cast Identify is simply absurd, even if the rules do call for it, particularly when there's no Lore skill in ToEE). Al in all, I'd call this a weak effort by a group from which I expected much more.

Originally posted by Caedis1
I would recommend playing a bit further into the game before posting a glowing review.

Can't say I saw that, above. Ned comments, "As far as party interaction and Role Playing, can't comment as I've not played it enough yet." Smass remarks, "Once I get some hours under my belt I will weigh in with my views on the gameplay and story." Those reviews look pretty carefully delineated in their praise for very specific features that can be analyzed early on in the game, to me.

I am still looking forward to playing it, when I arrive back in the US this weekend. Now, all RPGs are ultimately linear, but many disguise their linearity well, so my question is this: how apparently non-linear is gameplay?

Thus far, the story elements are lacking. Very little depth, uninspired, boring run back and forth between the npcs stuff. Nothing like the BG series at all, or Arcanum's. IWD's was better, even the original NWN was better. At this point I doubt this facet of the game will improve. Gameplay also seems very linear.

Having said that, I'm still enjoying this tremendously, the combat is terrific. Large battles with the small, they play out very well, the party is a joy to manipulate. The combat alone makes this game worth my purchase. My characters were very, very fragile at first, but the tactical options made these battles a heck of a lot of fun, even with a level 1 party the could be blown over by a stiff wind. Sadly, my dear, dear wife Fruella did not survive her first encounter with an ogre.

RPG of the year? Well normally I would say no chance, but it beats Lionheart hands down. Can't think of what else TOEE could compete with since KOTOR is not available for the pc yet. So at this point it could win by default.

More impressions:

I was originally a bit put off by the lack of an automapping system for the town. It took me a while to get a hang of the layout - I would have preferred the map system to have flags describing the main buildings - or at least readable signs.

Once I got around the city enough to know the general lay of the land I became more comfortable.

I have taken two of my parties to the moathouse for some combat. I am really excited about the strategies that you can employ using the turn based system. Much more thinking involved than in a real time battle system - even as compared to BG with the pause system. The 3rd edition rules are dead on and all the feats and skills seem to be well integrated. If you enjoy this turn based system I think you are gonna love combat.

I am going to get more into the town quests tonight. I am familiar with the TOEE storyline having owned and played the pnp version years ago.

It appears to me so far that BG type character interactions are non-existent. But the general conversations with NPCs seem to be very rich and at least on par with BG. The replay value in this game will be more in trying different party combinations and strategies - It looks to be a fairly linear story - but that is OK by me given the multitude of strategic options that the game engine offers. I also enjoy and in fact prefer the low level play in this game - my only complaint with BGII is that by the time you get to the underdark - you are just too powerful - and Throne of Bhaal is over the top. Mind you - I loved both games - but if I could have the character interaction and interface improvements of BGII in a BGI game I would be in heaven.

Overall I am impressed and really excited about the potential for this engine to be used for other D&D modules. The NWNs community has recreated most of the classic D&D modules - but because NWNs is made for multiplay - they are not much fun alone. I am a big fan of NWNs multiplay - but TOEE seems to be a better engine for the more methodical strategy based game that I like to play in single player mode.

The turn-based combat is well-enough done, except for the problem of turn-based limbo that I've noted in my other thread (I'm still stuck with that monster in the wall, so if anyone has any advice I'd greatly appreciate it!) But overall the whole thing just seems frankly uninspired to me. This seems like the type of game that should have led up to BG2, not something coming three years after it. Different designers, I realize, but with the envelope for D&D games being pushed so far by great games like BG2, Planescape: Torment (still my personal favorite), and NWN, this one just gives the impression that they couldn't be bothered to get it right. (I might add that you could approximate turn-based play in the BG series via the autopause feature, though concededly it wasn't quite the same.) The combat system is pretty much the only thing that seems to have received close attention by the design team-- I mean, how many feats don't even have a description of their effects in game terms?! The lack of automapping is a major drawback as well, particularly given the sprawling town design and lack of in-game organization a la Arcanum's street signs.
That said, I admit it is growing on me-- like Arcanum, it seems liek ToEE will turn into an enjoyable game once you learn to deal with its many quirks. But given the number and quality of D&D-based games out there, it still seems to me that many of these quirks and shortcomings are simply inexcuable laziness on the part of the design team.

What part of the map don't you like?
They give you an approximation of what a real fantasy town is like and then people complain that its not enough like todays world.
Small towns don't usually have signs.. building sigsn at the most not street signs..
it automaps the area you are in, and allows you to place markers.. I'm not sure what more you'd want it to do be a better 'automap'

Who's saying they don't like the maps? The only complaints I saw were about the automapping system itself, and an absence of clear labelling. This has nothing to do with being modern or fantasy-ancient, and I can't say I've read any comments like that.

Smass said:
I was originally a bit put off by the lack of an automapping system for the town

I was curious what more he wanted it to do...
it draws the town, you can click the flag and place labels..
you can scroll around the map with your hand..

I agree with Smass about the mapping pitfalls. There are store-front signs, but you can't read them. You have to go inside to find out that it's the leatherworker's house. Normally, you could read the sign and not be afraid that you might barge into some poor farmer's house. For the map page, yes you can put a flag on each house you've entered (and that's what I did), but since most people will do that, why not auto-label the most important places?

Also, as mentioned elsewhere, running from battle is very cumbersome, but as I recall, it was just as time consuming in other turn-based games I've played (i.e. the Dark Sun series). Just something to get used to...

@Gwally,

because it is more PnP like to have the characters label a map than to have a DM do it for you? Pretty weak argument but perhaps along their line of thought.

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
@Gwally,

because it is more PnP like to have the characters label a map than to have a DM do it for you? Pretty weak argument but perhaps along their line of thought.

Well, that's a good point, and I really don't mind doing it myself, since I am a very methodical player. But it is a feature that could have been implemented easily in the computer game.

No, its not being able to read the signs that ticks me off more. I've found more potters, lonely farmers, and shifty teamsters in my quest for a good set of leather armor. It wouldn't be so bad if I was playing a thieving party, but my current party is uncomfortable with just going into anyone's house. What the game really needs is the ability to 'knock' on town doors and have them answered.....

Knock Knock.....

The drag with being able to add flags to the map is the limit imposed. Everything to the north of the river in Hommlett is unflagged because I used them all up on the south half of the town. I've got so many notes tagged on the map and I'm not inclined to remove any of them.

If I found a vendor selling sling bullets en masse, I'd remove a current flag to label him/her on the map.

I have to admit, I am wondering about Buck Satan's first impressions of this game. I know he was looking forward to it, having been familiar with the original PnP version. Has this game met his expectations? Is he disappointed? I look forward to his review.