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In my last game I took Anomen along, and he was very useful vs Undead. Unfortunatly, I didnt get to the point where he can destroy Vampires or Greater Mummies....

Bringing Anomen along (which is a rarety actually ), made me wonder...
What level of Turning Undead is required in order to destroy certain Undead, like:

Skeleton
Skeleton Warrior
Mummy
Greater Mummy
Vampires
Linches


So, does anyone know, or tried it out??
Input would be welcome

not sure buddy...but i do remember that someone once wrote you need 25 for demilich busting....

Thanks for the link Numinor, never saw that site before, quite handy actually

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
not sure buddy...but i do remember that someone once wrote you need 25 for demilich busting....

Truly?? I thought kangaxx (hes a demi-lich right??) couldnt be turned, or is he simply an exception on the rule??

Anyway, maybe I should play a Ranger/Cleric sometime, although it seems like a bit of a boring class, since Im more into archering then casting

Perhaps a clarification is in order. There are two types of "turning" (if you're a Good Cleric): you either make the monster explode, or you make the monster run away. You can make vampires explode somewhere around 17th Level. I think you can make liches (ordinary ones) explode somewhere around 20th Level. You can turn demiliches somewhere around 25th Level, but no matter how powerful you become, you can't make them explode; you can only make them run away. That's still quite an advantage in combat, however, because it prevents them from casting Imprisonment while your party attacks them.

I thought that table on PBG looked kind of incomplete -- stopping at level 14, and all -- but I couldn't find any further data.

If the table follows the same pattern (ie improving every two levels after level 9) then I would think the progression of D's would be:

Mummy 16-17
Spectre (?) 18-19
Vampire 20-21
Ghost (?) 22-23
Lich 24-25

But I think PlanetBalurdsGate copies a lot of its data straight from the AD&D manual, so there is no real guarantee that the stats transfer to BG. The fact that the table lists Spectres and Ghosts makes me suspicious.

I just did an experiment. If you want to try it yourself, here's how I did it. I rolled up a Lawful Neutral Cleric and started the game. I walked to the room that has the Jailkeep Golem and closed both doors (I left Imoen behind) to limit the scope of the action. I created a Scroll of Protection From Undead (SCRL09) and used it tp keep the monsters from attacking. Then I summoned some monsters (SKELWA01, VAMPIM01, VAMPIF01, MUMGRE01, LICH01, DEMILICH, etc.), tried to turn them, and kept raising my character's level until the monsters exploded.

A skeleton warrior (9th Level) explodes when the Cleric is 16th Level. A male vampire (8th Level) explodes when the Cleric is 15th Level. A female vampire (11th Level) explodes when the Cleric is 18th Level. A greater mummy (14th Level) explodes when the Cleric is 21st Level.

I couldn't make the lich explode or make the demi-lich run away, not even when the Cleric was 40th Level. I think that's because I have the improved lich MOD installed. In previous unmodified games, I remember making liches explode and making the demi-lich in Watcher's Keep run away, so I know it can be done. I don't remember the exact level of the Cleric, though.

I chunked my first lich at 20 or 21 or so. That kind of throws off the sneaking suspicion that you can chunk stuff that's 7 levels below you, as is the case with the skeleton warrior and vamps.

I tried it with the Shadelich (Level 20) and the Elemental Lich (Level 20) . They started to run away when my cleric was level 20 and exploded when he was level 27, so I consider VonDondu's theory proven
Kangaxx (both forms) and the Demi-Lich in Watcher's Keep are level 27, so you'll need a lvl 34 Cleric to blow them up.
There are other liches in the gamefiles, some of them are only used for cutscenes (they are level 1), but there are two with full spells and everything, one level 19 and one level 11. I suppose Xyx's first blown up lich was level 11 (are these the generic Liches that spawn in some dungeons when your party is high level ?).

Thanks for the replies.....I appreciate all the research that has been put in this..

I am guessing that Viconia can TURN/CONTROL those undead, which have been mentioned here, at the same level as Anomen can chunck them?? Or am I wrong in this assumption??

I could think of no reason why it should be different for evil clerics, but I'll test it later.
It only takes 5 minutes, so no big deal

Ok, cool

I wish I could try it out myself, but Im a bit tied up with installing and uninstalling BG SoA and my mouse/keybord hardware

So... thanks

Yep, a level 34 evil cleric can control Kangaxx the Demi Lich
You can however neither explode nor control Kangaxx' first form (he doesn't even run away), he seems to be immune to turn undead.

Originally posted by Numinor
Yep, a level 34 evil cleric can control Kangaxx the Demi Lich
You can however neither explode nor control Kangaxx' first form (he doesn't even run away), he seems to be immune to turn undead.

Whow, thats nice....

Too bad he cant go through doors, else you would have one powerfull ally

Thanks for the research ones again.

Originally posted by Numinor
Yep, a level 34 evil cleric can control Kangaxx the Demi Lich
You can however neither explode nor control Kangaxx' first form (he doesn't even run away), he seems to be immune to turn undead.

urm evil cleric turn undead makes them immune to sunray(they are blue circle, so they are no longer targetted as hostile)...they are still blinded and confused by false dawn, gotta love that spell, so once viccy turns them, bash with weapons to put them down.

Another cool trick you can do with the evil cleric's Turn Undead is the "Instant Vampire Army" (I think it's in your cheese guide, User? Don't remeber exactly where I first heard this ) All you need is someone who can cast Limited Wish, someone with not-too-high wisdom (below 12 or 14 I think) and an evil cleric of sufficient level. Cast Limited Wish and let your party member with the lowest wisdom talk to the djinn. Choose "I wish to be protected from undead" and a bunch of vampires will appear. Have your cleric turn them and voilá: your own personal vampire army You can repeat this as often as you have Limited wish memorized.

I know of that trick, Ive actually read the whole cheese guide... (although I must admit that half of the things that are mentioned there arent really my style.... no offence UU )

I am more into the tactics (and of course dialog ) portion of the game, then exploiting spells and items into infinity...


But to stay on topic, I now know how effective clerics can be at high levels vs undead (I truly didnt know).....it made my respect for them actually even grow.

I did a few more tests in an unmodified game.

"LICH01" is an ordinary lich--for example, the kind that appears in the Shade Lord's dungeon if you have a high level party. In an unmodified game, the lich is 11th Level. (With the improved lich MOD, the lich is 25th Level.) I made the lich explode with an 18th Level Cleric.

"HLDEMI" is Kangaxx the Demi-lich. He's 27th Level. Contrary to my previous post, you can indeed make him explode if your Cleric is 34th Level. I didn't know that before, and to be honest, I'm surprised that he's vulnerable to that form of attack. I think the reason why Kangaxx's first form can't be turned is because it would break the quest if you could do so; otherwise, I don't think it should be seen as a special form of immunity. In other words, if it didn't interfere with the game, you could probably turn Kangaxx's first form.

"HLSHAD" is the Shade Lich, and "HLLICH" is the Elemental Lich. They're both 20th Level. I made them explode with a 27th Level Cleric. To be honest, I used to think they wouldn't explode because I thought they were in the "special" category, just like Kangaxx, but I was wrong about all of them.

To be honest, it wasn't my intention to put forth the "theory" that you can make undead creatures explode if your Cleric is exactly seven levels higher than the monsters. The people who made BG2 have a tendency to bend rules and customize monsters, so I wouldn't expect them to stick to such a rigid scheme if they had a reason to break from it. But from looking at the results of my tests, the "Seven Level Rule" appears to hold up for most of the monsters, so I guess you can use it as a general guide.

I hope you don't mind if I don't comment on the cheese that some of you are talking about. Cheese impresses me sometimes, but I just don't know what to say.

Originally posted by Sytze
I know of that trick, Ive actually read the whole cheese guide... (although I must admit that half of the things that are mentioned there arent really my style.... no offence UU )

I am more into the tactics (and of course dialog ) portion of the game, then exploiting spells and items into infinity...


But to stay on topic, I now know how effective clerics can be at high levels vs undead (I truly didnt know).....it made my respect for them actually even grow.

oh don't worry about it...to be brutally frank, i actually find it harder to play out an all cheese all encounters game than it is to play it with simple and smart tactical savvy...its actually challenging to cheese out every single set encounter...as wierd as it sounds, its harder to cheese some things than it is to play it roleplay...

my cheese guide was always intended to be a reference, something to make people chuckle, and a source for ideas for people who get stuck...it was certainly never intended to ruin anyone's fun...

gotta bunch of new cheese to write up..and i've been meaning to polish the language...

but i really want to get around to some near infinity hacked spells i've been meaning to field test...sigh...and i gotta do some real life things too...sigh...

von, that was some extremely interesting reading...

urm...this also makes me think...if turn undead is dependent on being 7 levels higher than the target, does the math apply to Dispell magic too??? could being 7 levels or higher than a enemy mage mean almost 100% chance of removing spell protections??? somehow i would guess this is the formula used consistantly by the game engine...

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
my cheese guide was always intended to be a reference, something to make people chuckle, and a source for ideas for people who get stuck...it was certainly never intended to ruin anyone's fun...

but i really want to get around to some near infinity hacked spells i've been meaning to field test...sigh...and i gotta do some real life things too...sigh...

I didnt mean it in a way that it spoils the fun, no sirie.
Im positive alot of poeple like the cheese guide, and won alot of hard battes because of it....

Im just saying (because the cheese guide was mentioned there), that some of it just aint my style, like the wish exploit.......pure my own opinion
I am sorry if I made it look like it ruins my and others game fun...


Andahh, about life...I somewere read about it, that life happens when ure planning all other sorts of things