US forces capture Saddam near Tikrit

nael · Post by **nael** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:59 am

saddam hussein captured

wow, just when things were looking bleak over there, we actually got him...

nael · Post by **nael** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:00 am

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/ ... index.html

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:02 am

Heh - thought it was some attempt at a humorous thread - looks to be real (hope it is also, but that is another thingy).

But waiting for confimation on more newssources first .... but looks promising.

Still think that Iraq will cost many more lives still though - maybe even more now. BUt we can hope that the situations improves down there now.

(EDIT: Seen it on several news sources now ....)

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:04 am

Looks like ol' Saddam couldn't dig his way out of things this time. The 'Ace of Spades' in the Iraqi playing card deck (a birthday present I got last Monday-very cool) has just been found hidden in a hole in 'Operation Red dawn', carried out by US forces 8pm last night (Iraq time).
Unsurprisingly, footage from his capture and subsequent identification is being played across the news (Geneva convention be damned, comments during the war aside), and he certainly looks the part. The large beard he was sporting prior to being shaved rules out it being his female body double, at any rate. Naturally the (official) goal of the war has now been retrospectively changed from finding WMDs to getting Saddam.

Though it slightly detracts from my enjoyment of South Park: the Movie, I for one am not sorry to see the guy caught. One less nasty guy in a world with an abundance thereof.

Edited to remove smelling

mistakes.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:11 am

Damn, got beaten to it. Curse this slow connection.

For some reason I can't delete the other thread I posted before seeing this one, but if this is true then good riddance to bad rubbish, says I. It won't fix the problems currently facing Iraq, true, but it's one less nasty tinpot despot in a world with quite enough already.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:13 am

Originally posted by das_hermit
Damn, got beaten to it. Curse this slow connection.

For some reason I can't delete the other thread, but if this is true then good riddance to bad rubbish, says I. It won't fix the problems currently facing Iraq, true, but it's one less nasty tinpot despot in a world with quite enough already.

The hope is that with Saddam out of the picture - Iraq have the possibility to move forward now withouth that "Ghost" still in the shadows. Unfortunally I think we will see an increase in violence from the saddam loyal followers, but as a whole - I see this as very good news.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:16 am

EDIT-Thanks @Xandax.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:13 am

Personally, I see this as a move by the US Department of Defense to distract US citizens from the fact that hatred of the US in at an all-time high in the MidEast--just as several commentators in the UK and US had said it would be, before the invasion was launched. Saddam, IMO, has had little or no hand in the attacks on US (and other) troops in Iraq. He was never liked in the MidEast, save by his own party, and they've been marginalized. Rather, it's the idea of the US marching in, taking over, and dictating the present and future of Iraq--after having done the same in Afghanistan--that is responsible for the mounting dead.

I wonder if the US will put Saddam on trial? Because if they do, and it's proceedings are made public, the deals brokered by Rumsfeld that provided him with the modern equivalent of mustard gas will become common knowledge.

And through it all, I hope somebody realizes that none of this hits back at the whole reason for our "MidEastern adventure"--stopping Al-Quida, the architects of 9/11, and capturing Usama bin Ladin.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:35 am

We have now achieved our objective in going to war: Saddam Hussein will never be able to use weapons of mass destruction or give them to his diabolical friends.

(cough, cough, *hack*, cough)

And furthermore, this means that we will finally bring those who were responsible for 9-11 to justice.

(cough, *hack*, *hack*, cough, *hack*, cough, cough)

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:23 am

Good point, Ode, about the Geneva Convention. Xandax may be right about about increased violence, but I think Sadam loyalty will just be an excuse. LOL, VonDondu, you've captured my feelings perfectly!

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:55 am

Hm. Well, I hate to buck the cynical trend that this thread has taken, but I think the capture of Hussein is a great thing. The guy was evil (yeah, I know - we're not supposed to use that word - but it just fits so well!) As das_hermit says: "one less nasty tinpot despot in a world with quite enough already."

It has already been announced that he will be tried by the Iraqis, and I think this will give them confidence that he is really gone. As I've read through articles about Iraq in the past, one thing that was mentioned somewhat frequently was: the Iraqis were still really, really afraid that Saddam might somehow come back. Well, no more worry there. Who knows whether this will quell resistance in Iraq? Probably not, considering the number of foreign fighters who don't give a rat's patoot about Saddam, but it is a positive development however you look at it, IMO.

As for the shifting justifications of the war, etc, well, I've never been one of those that saw a 9/11 connection (though some do) and I think bin Laden and his followers are a far more important target than Saddam and his army ... but the fact remains: Saddam, the guy responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, and the suppression of millions, is gone. And that was one of the goals of the invasion - whether you agree with the reasoning or not (and I don't).

EDIT: Anyone who would like to see a somewhat more positive take on the capture should check out Glenn Reynolds site. (I'm just linking to the front page, which today is full of comments on the subject, though if you tune in in the future you'll have to go looking through archives or some such.)

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:41 pm

Aha, so the US forces have now found Saddam. They have however not found any Weapons of Mass Destruction.

I only see the capture as important inasmuch as the US government now has something that distract people from the failure to capture Osama bin Laden, the failure to find the WMD's that were the original objective of the invasion and the fact that hundreds of Americans and allied have died since the start of the invasion.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:14 pm

It was interesting. I was reading some of the comments from the Glenn Reynolds site you posted, Laz, and some of them hinted at Chirac being sweating now that Saddam is captured. Well, as Fable has already mentioned, you would wonder why Rumsfield isn't? Aside from the fact that it will likely be a Coaltion lead trial, regardless of where it occurs, Saddam will undoubtily try to ruin the states image as much as he can, by telling about the American government supplying the means he used to be the dictator he was.

That leads me to believe we will see another event like what happened to John Wilkes Booth, in that there will be a convienant assassination, attempt at least, on Saddam before he can say anything.

Just a thought, really.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:06 pm

Well I think the good thing is that thousands of innocent victims of Saddam know that their nemesis has finally been hunted down. Imagining the situation of those who lost beloved ones or whose body and soul got scarred forever, I'm glad to hear it.

Anyway, this will be heavily used to justify a war that was started for quite obscure reasons and I don't like that aspect.

And what really baffles me is that Saddam didn't commit suicide.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:45 pm

Shot him in the head and lets call it a day.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:07 pm

Nah, put him on trial and watch Rumsfeld squirm...

Cheers @CE *hug*, I was wondering how long it would be before someone pointed out Saddam (technically) isn't a WMD.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:40 pm

Yes he is. You were there to smell him after he came out of that pit!

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:53 am

Originally posted by Aegis
It was interesting. I was reading some of the comments from the Glenn Reynolds site you posted, Laz, and some of them hinted at Chirac being sweating now that Saddam is captured. Well, as Fable has already mentioned, you would wonder why Rumsfield isn't? Aside from the fact that it will likely be a Coaltion lead trial, regardless of where it occurs, Saddam will undoubtily try to ruin the states image as much as he can, by telling about the American government supplying the means he used to be the dictator he was.

I don't know if Chirac is sweating as much as some of officials in the US and UK government. We all know the French had supplied weapons to Iraq, but they never tried to hide it. While the US and UK had supplied them, especially during Iran-Iraqi War, but had been playing down about it for a past few years, even though we do know about it. We are not stupid, are we? It would be interesting to see if Saddam starts to talk about how much of what type of weapons and facilities he bought from the US arm dealers.

BTW, I thought they went into the war to find WMD. Are they still trying it, or they just wanted to find Saddam, and now satisfied with the result? I believe someone close to Hussain sold him off to the US.

@Lazarus: I think it's not "some" who believe Saddam is responsible for the 9/11. I saw a survey that nearly 60% of Americans believe that these days.

I blame media.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:21 am

I don't think Rumsfeld, or anyone else in the US or UK, are too terribly worried that the weapons they sold to Saddam will become news again. As Minerva says, they have been playing down that information, and will continue to do so. Anytime it comes up, they'll just say "that's old news, that's ancient history." That's how they'll spin it, and it will be hard to say anything against it.

zman · Post by **zman** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:43 am

Way ta go!!

Yes!! Way to go guys. You are correct to be suspicious of everything the U.S. government does because our elected officials have nothing but a sinister agenda, they are out to get you!! They are evil!!

You go guys, fight the machine.

Sheesh I feel like I'm in the 60's all over again, mabye you people should restart the sds or some crazy organization like that. What happened, the MAN put you down? Too much CORPORATE CAPITALISM for you?