GameBanshee Forums

Ok people i need your opinons on a few things...
1.) Which is better a plain Druid or the Shapeshifter kit?
2.) Which is better a plain bard or the Skald kit?
3.) Which is better a plain thief or the swashbuckler kit?

Opps one more thing i wanted to add was what do you think of the Assassian kit? Does the assassian get additional backstab multiplyer as well as the poisoned weapons?

ohhyeaahhhh, assassin on level 23 can be pretty dangerous

I prefer Druid to Shapeshifter, because werewalf was not as powerful as I expected, and Shapeshifters cannot wear armour. I only used early stage of the game, so I don't know if it'll be better after level ups.

I never used Bard class, so I'll pass no.2.

I like assassin best.

But those are very much personal feeling than any theory, in my case...

1) I like the plain druid over the shapeshifter. There are some great leather armors, such as the shadow dragon armor, that can really help out the plain druid. To me, the shapeshifting ability isn't very useful. Against high level opponents, one would have to be a fool to engage them in combat as a werewolf.

2) I like the skald better. I never use pick pocket skills and can use potions to improve the skill when needed. Skald song is pretty cool.

3) I'm partial to assassins, but that wasn't really your question. It really depends on how you use your thief. If you like to backstab, the swashbuckler is out. If you don't backstab much, the swashbuckler kit is great. They're good in combat, though they can't compare to the straight thieves in skills, due to the number of points a true thief gets each level. Me, I like to backstab, and no one compares to an assassin there.

Rail is right that it depends on how you use a thief. However, while the Assassin does take a penalty to his thief skills, a Swashbuckler does not. He only loses the backstab. Keep in mind that the swashbuckler, by level twenty gets +4 to hit, +4 damage, and +4 to armor class -- very powerful. My Swashbuckler, wearing the Shadow Dragon Scale and equipped with other AC enhancing items has an AC of -13. If you think you might like a fighter/thief, take a look at the Swashbuckler. If you just HAVE to have backstab, the Assassin might be better despite the thieving penalties.

[This message has been edited by Saigo (edited 02-26-2001).]

For druids I would prefer the totemic druid over the others. The spirit animals can level drain, and I just love the level drain ability--when it's applied on others and not me of course.

For bards I would prefer any kit except blade. To me the blade is just a bad fighter who can dual-wield and who can identify. The jester really fun with the confusing songs tho not very powerful either.

I have created over about 40 characters by now, 35 of them are mages, heh.

What does everyone think of a thief oriented group around 3 or 4. Of course a mage a nd a fighter or two? Any thoughts, positives/negatives?

I agree, Tain. Totemic druids have fast become one of my favorite kits. They have no downside, IMHO, since I don't feel shapechanging is useful anyway.

BTW, don't swashbucklers get 5pts less than true thieves per level to distribute to skills?

Originally posted by GComer6574:
Opps one more thing i wanted to add was what do you think of the Assassian kit? Does the assassian get additional backstab multiplyer as well as the poisoned weapons?

If you know how to play the assassin he can be very deadly and I do mean VERY

1) The Shapeshifter is the weakest druid kit. No armor is a huge disadvantage, especially if you need the Bracers AC 3 for another character in your party. Also, all other druids may use Ankheg Plate Mail and the Red Dragon Scale, putting down the AC far lower than what's possible for a Shapeshifter. Still, Cernd is in my opinion not that bad - he's certainly a better druid than Jaheira (more spells faster). Jaheira, on the other hand, is a better fighter. The Totemic Druid seems to be a great kit. Shapechanging really isn't that great. However, I want *my* druids to be able to change form - that's make them more special in comparison with the clerics. Therefor, I prefer the Avenger kit. Especially the Sword Spider form, the Chromatic Orb and the Improved Invisibility are useful.
2) Bards in general are great. The Skald is the best kit by far, thanks to his skald song. But I'm not overly fond of the idea of a viking bard (not sofisticated enough in my eyes), which is why I opt for the plain Bard. A drawback is that nobody is sure of the exact effects of the normal bard song, neither how it improves as you level up. I've tried that question on this board before... The effects of the Jester song are too weak in my opinion. The Blade is a lousy fighter unless you use the Tenser's Transformation (at which point he becomes amazing - but the other bards become almost as good, so...).
3) Swashbucklers are great for anything but backstabbing. I would prefer a fighter/thief, instead. Just as good (in fact better but levels up a bit slower) and can backstab, too. Swashbucklers are actually found both among fighters and thieves. A lack in BG 2 is that the typical weapons of the Swashbuckler are not present (rapier, main-gauche etc). That make the kit a bit less interesting for me.

In each game I've played so far, I've created the game in multi so I could try two classes/kits in each game without sacrificing NPC fun. I tried the swashbuckler in one game and she was amazing. It's like getting a fighter/thief and spending half as many XPs to do so. She was dual wielding katanas and kicking serious ass. (Incidentally, there's a glitch in the swashbuckler creation so that it won't let you put two points in katana. I used SK to add a star after I created the character, not cheating because you should be able to do so...it's a bug.) There are only two obvious disadvantages to the swashbuckler. 1) No backstab multiplier (which, remember, doesn't mean you can't backstab, only that it's not as effective). I know assassin fans will disagree with me on this, but I never liked this skill to begin with. You get in one great attack, but then you're left toe-to-toe and all alone. Really only good against solo mages. Maybe I'm not playing it right... 2) Relatively low HPs mean you have a melee combatant who gets punched up pretty badly sometimes. The solution to the second problem is, first, get the shadow dragon scale armor asap, and, second, make sure she has plenty of potions of extra healing on hand. (Another thing I did, and I know some people will think this is atrocious, was give her the Ring of Gaxx. The regeneration, AC bonus, invisibility, and improved haste were absolutely perfect for the way I was playing her.)

All told, I thought she was great. She leveled up so fast...I had her in 100+ on all her thief stats (except pick pockets) before I got to UstNatha. She was laying traps, detecting illusions, scouting areas, and then backing it all up with some wicked melee attacks.

Originally posted by Rail:
I agree, Tain. Totemic druids have fast become one of my favorite kits. They have no downside, IMHO, since I don't feel shapechanging is useful anyway.

BTW, don't swashbucklers get 5pts less than true thieves per level to distribute to skills?

I know this topic has been dead for a while, but I just realized there was a question still on the table.

Rail, I checked the manual and it said the only disadvantage was no backstab. The other kits do get fewer skill points. I know how accurate the manual is, but I was getting 25 per level. Do pure thieves get more?

@Hazim, I gave my Swashbuckler the Ring of Gaxx, too. He's the main character and a bit of a nasty guy -- nobody argued with him. Did you notice that with the Boots of Speed, you regenerate at twice the rate (4 points per round)? Add the Ring of regeneration and you heal at 6 points per round.

[This message has been edited by Saigo (edited 02-28-2001).]

Totemic is best Druid IMHO - same spells, no cr*ppy shape shift, cool totem animals (Indigo Woodpecker for example ).

Skald is best Bard. Better song, better fighter, who needs pickpocket?

Thief - tough call. I like 'em all, very versatile class.

[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 02-28-2001).]

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
Totemic is best Druid IMHO - same spells, no cr*ppy shape shift, cool totem animals (Indigo Woodpecker for example ).

Skald is best Bard. Better song, better fighter, who needs pickpocket?

Thief - tough call. I like 'em all, very versatile class.

[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 02-28-2001).]

I ahven't played any of the druid classes through far enough to see this, but I've heard much praise for Cernd's (eventual) ability to become a Greater Wolfwere running around in Ironskins. Might be another class (like the Monk) that shows a sudden huge improvement at high levels... I'm playing with 3 druids right now, so I guess I'll find out pretty soon...

mh



------------------
Only in silence the word,
only in dark the light,
only in dying, life:
bright the hawk’s flight
on the empty sky."

1) Swashbucklers get the full thieving percentage points per level as a regular thief. Or more likely, the most of any thief kit if all you play is kits (25 pts per level).

2) Swashbucklers HOWEVER have some bugs with what weapons they can SPECIALIZE in. Some weapons are not allowed for specialization, particularly the katana.

3) Also, swashbucklers, as of the latest english patch, do NOT receive the extra 1/2 attack per round that other classes/kits receive when putting in 2 stars for a weapon proficiency. Most players offset this with the boots of speed, so they hardly even notice this. What I don't know is if this was a conscious game design decision by the developers or not.

4) This part I'm not too sure: A Shapeshifter druid unfortunately does not become a Greater Wolfwere. It receives the ability to become a Greater WEREwolf. This may disappoint those who were expecting the superhigh regeneration of the WolfWERE.

1) Swashbucklers get the full thieving percentage points per level as a regular thief. Or more likely, the most of any thief kit if all you play is kits (25 pts per level).

2) Swashbucklers HOWEVER have some bugs with what weapons they can SPECIALIZE in. Some weapons are not allowed for specialization, particularly the katana.

3) Also, swashbucklers, as of the latest english patch, do NOT receive the extra 1/2 attack per round that other classes/kits receive when putting in 2 stars for a weapon proficiency. Most players offset this with the boots of speed, so they hardly even notice this. What I don't know is if this was a conscious game design decision by the developers or not.

4) This part I'm not too sure: A Shapeshifter druid unfortunately does not become a Greater Wolfwere. It receives the ability to become a Greater WEREwolf. This may disappoint those who were expecting the superhigh regeneration of the WolfWERE.

Swashbuckler is like having an extra fighter who is also a skilled thief. Provided you can do without backstab, this IMO is the best of the "thief" classes.