GameBanshee Forums

Does anyone else play the game without clerics?

I think in the last 10 or so runs through bg2 I haven't used a cleric and it hasn't been a problem at all. This excludes a Aerie (she's more of a uber-spellcaster to me) and ranger-cleric protagonists. I guess I have pure clerics/fighter-clerics in mind. Perhaps I am too fed up with "righteousness"??

Or just too fed up with Anomen

I am still thinking about starting a game one of these days with a no-arcane-magic "righteous" party. It would definitely be a change of experience...

-kaitsuburi

Fascinating idea. It will really add a challenge to the later chapters. I wish you luck with it.

i couldn't live without divine magic. Always have a cleric (no multiclass, not advanced enough) and probably a druid too.

find it bothersome to try to survive every battle without getting a party member killed, or to travel to a town and raise dead whenever someone dies. Can be done, i suppose, but my cleric's around usually to raise dead or turn undead. Since I've installed TDD as a mod the cleric spell searing light becomes one of my most commonly used spells.

No cleric/druid party. Can be done,although i like the healing spells.
And later some highlevel spells are very powerfull (lvl7 druid spells are definatly worth the wait)

And I wouldnt call Viconia "righteous" but that's just me

It definatly adds some difficulty, and i think you will rest more, and you can finally use up all those potions you find but never use.

Good luck!

my current party consists of: kensai-thief, archer, beserker, Valigar, Keldorn and Jan. I'm about to go to spellhold, after finishing all the quests. I have to sat that i find it not too hard at all. Jan hardly casts any spells. Every fight is over in couple of rounds.

The thing with no clerics is that every cleric that i don't take means an extra warriror. And that's the bane of spellcasters (who are the only hard enemies). Mellee goons go down quick either way.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that even with a much more challenging game (through weidu mods ~~ haven't tried others), a cleric doesn't have anything really unique that would guarantee her a spot in my party. I am not dismissing divine magic altogether, far from it. In fact, in my lastest game started this week, Jaheira has been so incredibly useful with her Chaotic Commands, Insect Plague and Summon Fire Elemental (no level 7 spells yet). In the improved Mae'var fight with all those invisible assassins, having swarms of insects over their heads greatly reduces their deadliness.

Supposing you take a druid along, she's got your divine magic bases pretty much covered, IMHO. A cleric on top of that would be nice (e.g. earthquake) but not vital. A mage/sorceror is better with damaging spells while there are always too many potions/resurrection rods to do healing, etc. A cleric without Insect Plague, Fire Elemental and Nature's Beauty, on the other hand, would feel somehow incomplete. Personal preference & style of play, perhaps? A cleric/ranger is awesome though, no doubt.

Thinking about it, there is always turn undead, a very nice ability, though with Daystar/powerful fighter(s), I don't really have a strong need for it. Anything else you can think of that is: 1) unique to clerics, and 2) needed in a very hard game?

-kaitsuburi

Originally posted by Kaitsuburi
Supposing you take a druid along, she's got your divine magic bases pretty much covered, IMHO. A cleric on top of that would be nice (e.g. earthquake) but not vital. A mage/sorceror is better with damaging spells while there are always too many potions/resurrection rods to do healing, etc. A cleric without Insect Plague, Fire Elemental and Nature's Beauty, on the other hand, would feel somehow incomplete. Personal preference & style of play, perhaps? A cleric/ranger is awesome though, no doubt.

Thinking about it, there is always turn undead, a very nice ability, though with Daystar/powerful fighter(s), I don't really have a strong need for it. Anything else you can think of that is: 1) unique to clerics, and 2) needed in a very hard game?

-kaitsuburi

I couldn't agree more. If you have a Druid with you, you can easily do without a Cleric and Druids seem to be so much more useful.

Like you pointed out, Clerics are usually for *extra* support and like someone else already pointed out, one less cleric can mean one more fighter on the front line. After all, you want enough front line fighters to cover your enemies with so that they can not get to your spellcasters/support characters at the back. What makes Jaheira so great is that not only can she fight as a tank but her summoning of fire elementals before she gets to super high levels is too useful as she can send the elementals, cast all her offensive spells from the back while the enemy is dealing with the fire elementals and THEN she can jump in to the fight with the melee characters.

Viconia is pretty much the best Cleric in my opinion. If you got enough fighters and slots to spare (or don't have Jaheira), she should probably be considered as the first choice if you don't have any other Clerics. With dominating undead, she can create an army of undead to fight alongside you.

i prefer jaheira as a uber tank...her druid spells augment her fighting ability very very nicely...

she's really all the cleric i need...i actually use aerie as a battlemage...

but a straight cleric, like ano or viccy???

nope, no use in my party at all...

though i am tempted to make viccy a cleric mage...

the only spells and abilites i would be tempted by are turn undead, and g restoration...everything else a druid is better...

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
i prefer jaheira as a uber tank...her druid spells augment her fighting ability very very nicely...

she's really all the cleric i need...i actually use aerie as a battlemage...

but a straight cleric, like ano or viccy???

nope, no use in my party at all...

though i am tempted to make viccy a cleric mage...

the only spells and abilites i would be tempted by are turn undead, and g restoration...everything else a druid is better...

Nuff said.

Originally posted by Black_Paladin
Nuff said.

Truly??

-What about Animate Dead?? Yes, mages got this spell too, but most of the time these are filled with Dispel, Slow, MMM, Skull Trap or Flame Arrow.
-How about Holy Smite?? Its almost a mix of Glitterdust and ADHW (like Xyx's spellguide mentioned)....and incredibly useful.
-Free Action-> Yes there are items for this, but they are very sparse. Throw in a few webs and let your Free Actioned (N)PC('s) do some serious damage.
-Protection form Evil 10' Radius-> Speaks for itselfs, gives an extra power boost against evil and lets you summon demons.
-Flame Strike-> Powerful spell, like Call on Lightning.
-Righteous Magic-> Makes your cleric a new fighter/kensai.
-Aerial Servant (might even be equal to the Fire Elemental) and Greater Restoration (speaks for itself)
-Turn Undead


Cerics have enough uses. Its true that a party can do without it. But a party can also do without druids, fighters or even mages. Now, I barely use clerics myself either, probably because I like the multiclasses, like Jaheira, better then pure clerics. Unfortunatly, there isnt a good Fighter-Cleric and I cant stand Anomen plus Aerie can be irriating at times and Viconia, is, like I mentioned, a pure cleric. IMO its purely about the NPC in the game that people barely take Clerics along.

Thanks for your reply, Sytze, here are some of my thoughts on those spells/abilities you point out:

Originally posted by Sytze
-What about Animate Dead??

It's a level 5 mage spell, so I always have a few memorized with mages. Besides, it can be put in a trigger, so you can summon 3 skeleton warriors in an instant!

-How about Holy Smite??

It's nice, enemy-damaging spell, but later in the game it's not powerful enough. I'd go for Abi-Dalzim's or take Aerie, who can put 3 Holy Smites in a trigger.

-Free Action->

I agree it's useful, but later in the game, your save rolls are good enough that you don't get held/stunned so easily. Unless you use web and send your fighters (why not just summon a spider with the figurine or a mage), not too vital.

-Protection form Evil 10' Radius->

Definitely useful when fighting demons early in the game and in summoning situations, especially when the enemy hits you with Remove Magic and you need to re-cast. However, as pre-buff, you can also go one-by-one with a Paladin or a mage. Later in the game demons fall pretty easily to your fighters.

-Flame Strike->

I agree it's powerful, nice, but your mage does better at damaging spells. e.g. 3 flame arrows in a trigger do awesome damage.

-Righteous Magic->

Definitely powerful, but it takes time. In the case of mages, Tensor's Transformation can be put in contingencies/triggers and cast instantanously with improved haste and mislead or whatever.

-Aerial Servant

I've not used it, but I cannot imagine it being better than the druid Fire Elemental (maybe as powerful, but probably not more powerful)

-Greater Restoration (speaks for itself)

I always do this at a temple or use a scroll on a particular character. I try not to get too many people level-drained anyhow, so I don't have urgent need for this spell.

-Turn Undead

Nice, especially when you don't have strong fighters or it's early in the game. It's nice to blow up all those annoying shadows that drain strength from my kensai, but it's more of a convenience than a necessity for me, especially later in the game.

++++++++++

You can see, I like triggers/contingencies It gives mages so much more versatility than a straight-book spell arsenal!

In general, I feel that clerics and cleric-fighters could have used one or more unique abilities/spells. I think I shall try a mod addressing those issues in my future "all-righteous" party.

-kaitsuburi

Like I said, there is always a substitute for something. One can play the game with, or without any type of NPC, spell or ability.
I therefore wont go into discussion with most of the things I metioned and you didn’t agree with. Since I think we both wont change our opinion about it.

Except for these two:

Originally posted by Kaitsuburi
It's a level 5 mage spell, so I always have a few memorized with mages. Besides, it can be put in a trigger, so you can summon 3 skeleton warriors in an instant!

You are completely right, it is a level 5 spell. A misjudgement from my side. However, a mage still has other useful level 5 spells, such as Breach, Lower Magic Resistance, Spell Immunity, Sunfire, etc. Plus, IT’S A LEVEL 5 SPELL!! I really think a Cleric would be better for the job then a mage.

Originally posted by Kaitsuburi
I always do this at a temple or use a scroll on a particular character. I try not to get too many people level-drained anyhow, so I don't have urgent need for this spell.

Besides that use, Greater Restoration also totally heals a (N)PC. And it is an area effect spell, which means the total party will be fully healed. Very handy in tight situations.

well i always take aerie...

I completely admit, i love those spells, and use them often...

but love or need???

don't need them, do love them and use them...

now the druid spells, i need them...

insect plague, nature's beauty, summon elemental prince are all crucial to late game encounters...

where i like the cleric selection, and use them a lot, i need the druid selection....

anyhu, i always take aerie and jaheira..though this time i'm going to make viccy a cleric mage or kensai cleric...

i did mention greater restoration and turn undead, right???

Originally posted by Sytze
Besides that use, Greater Restoration also totally heals a (N)PC. And it is an area effect spell, which means the total party will be fully healed. Very handy in tight situations.

Good point! Does it take a long time to cast? It will fatigue the caster, but that's a small sacrifice.

-kaitsuburi

With the speed of a normal Restoration spell. Of course, if you have Aerie with Robe of Vecna, and let her cast it, its will be cast in the blink of an eye

Originally posted by Kaitsuburi
Good point! Does it take a long time to cast? It will fatigue the caster, but that's a small sacrifice.

-kaitsuburi

don't matter, it affects entire map...you can have your cleric way off the battlefield and it still works...or aerie can put it into a chain contingency...

I've played BG without a healer once, except for my main character, who was a Paladin (Lay on hands and bhaal powers). It was fun, but hard - BG is so much healer reliant.

In my last two games I had Viconia cleric/mage, she is absolutely awesome; if Aerie is great, think of Aerie with better stats and high magic resistance!
And with her dex. and a sling she is also able to effectively hit from distance.
Definetly a super char.
My last party is Vicky (C/M), Edwin (sorc.), Korgan, Jan, Jaheira (F/Avenger) and PC (Kensai/mage), and they are kicking some really serious butt.

Hehe, tried playing through BGI as a cleric once....initially fun, but got really boring near the end when i couldnt hit anything (even with 18str and a war hammer+1), so i gave it up around chapter 4. I think i may try playing a cleric in BGII for kicks and giggles.....