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I have an Archer, and it bothers me that it seems like with some monsters, I can't even affect them. Some of them don't even seem to make any sense ...

For example, I was fighting an Iron Golem. I tried all the different arrows I had (+1, +2, Flame, Acid, Piercing, ...) and none of them had any affect. What really bothers me is that my two main fighters had weapons that did acid damage, and one of which did fire damage, and that seemed to work. Yet my flame and acid arrows did nothing ...

BTW - Is there a list somewhere of what you need to hit different monsters? i.e: What their immunities are?

In any case, I've also poked around on various web sites, and seen all the special abilities I can get at really high levels (critical strike, whirlwind attack, etc) and it looks like most are only useful in melee combat ...

So it has me wondering ... is my Archer going to be useless as I get higher? Between fighting monsters I can't seem to damage, and special abilities I won't be able to use, I'm wondering if I should start over with something else ..

Archers are INCREDIBLE powerful at higher levels, I really have no idea why you're saying that the HLA are useless.

However, I will also back this statement up, of course.


-First about the Iron Golems: Are you sure that your bow has a high enough +... to damage? Iron Golems can only be hit by +3 or more weapons I believe.


-About the High level abilities. First of all, the archer can get Greater Whirlwind. Instead of shooting 5 arrows per round, you can shoot around 10 per round. And no, this is not only for melee, the number of ranged weapon attacks increase drastically too.

-Then there is Greater Deathblow. Again, this counts for ranged as well as for melee weapons. However Deathblow gives a ranged weapon user more benefits the the melee type of player, because of the, well, range.
You will be hitting opponents faster (if there are 4 monsters, then you will have to walk to them with melee weapons in order to hit them, but with ranged weapons you can stand at the same spot => enemies are dead faster) plus you will be out of harms way. Since ure not close to the enemy. In case of Mindflayers, this is very useful.

-The same arguments can be used for Critical Strike.


-And another thing: the Archer special ability (called shot) stacks. So the higher levels you get, the more abilities your called shot has. Truly a deathly ability.

If i'm not wrong the enchantment for ranged weapons lies in the ammunition and not the weapon itself... the enchantment of the weapon only affects Thac0.

However only the most powerful creatures require more than +3 weapons to hit. Examples are Demogorgon, demiliches and high level mages (because of Improved Mantle and such spells). Since +3 arrows are available in ToB, everything else other than these boss-type enemies should be vulnerable.

As for the Iron Golem... since most Iron Golems in the game are trapped in rooms or such and cannot pass through small doorways, having arrows that damage Iron Golems would be too cheapskate, considering the large amount of XP provided... therefore SoA only provides +2 arrows.

As for the melee fire and acid damage... I'm not too sure, but I always thought Iron Golems were immune to elemental damage, so I wonder how your melee fighters were able to damage the Iron Golem with acid or fire.

Originally posted by araknid70
If i'm not wrong the enchantment for ranged weapons lies in the ammunition and not the weapon itself... the enchantment of the weapon only affects Thac0.

For an answer, check this thread

Originally posted by araknid70
However only the most powerful creatures require more than +3 weapons to hit. Examples are Demogorgon, demiliches and high level mages (because of Improved Mantle and such spells). Since +3 arrows are available in ToB, everything else other than these boss-type enemies should be vulnerable.

Iron Golems are immune to weapons with an enchanement of 2 and lower. This I checked (so yes, you were right ). I also searched some of its resistances with Infinity Explorer (which, as an answer to your BTW-question, grendel, can be used to view resistances, etc of creatures)

Iron Golem:
Resistances=
Fire/Magical Fire: 125
Cold/Electricity/Acid/Magic/Magical Cold: 100
Slashing/Piercing/Crushing/Missile: 20
Blunt: none

Saving Throws=
Death:3
Wand:5
Poly/Breath: 4
Spells: 6

Edit: typo's

Originally posted by araknid70
If i'm not wrong the enchantment for ranged weapons lies in the ammunition and not the weapon itself... the enchantment of the weapon only affects Thac0.

However only the most powerful creatures require more than +3 weapons to hit. Examples are Demogorgon, demiliches and high level mages (because of Improved Mantle and such spells). Since +3 arrows are available in ToB, everything else other than these boss-type enemies should be vulnerable.

As for the Iron Golem... since most Iron Golems in the game are trapped in rooms or such and cannot pass through small doorways, having arrows that damage Iron Golems would be too cheapskate, considering the large amount of XP provided... therefore SoA only provides +2 arrows.

As for the melee fire and acid damage... I'm not too sure, but I always thought Iron Golems were immune to elemental damage, so I wonder how your melee fighters were able to damage the Iron Golem with acid or fire.

First of all, you are correct. The enchanment for ranged weapons lies in the ammunition as you pointed out. I learned this from people on this forum myself. It turns out however, that if you have bows, crossbows or slings that do not require ammunition (Gesen Bow, Tansheron's Bow, Firetooth and the Sling of Everard), the ammuniton these weapons create themselves will have the same enchantment as the Thac0 of the weapon itself. As a result, you will be able to kill iron golems without any trouble with any of the items I listed above. Do *not* however equip these items with arrows, bolts or bullets for this purpose because then the ammunition will override the enchantment of the magically created ammunition of the weapons. Do know however that if you don't need to take out an iron golem or Kangaxx or whatever, than if you equip these items that don't require ammunition with your own ammunition, the damage from your own ammunition and the magical ammunition will stack (just not the enchantment like I said).

All of the items I listed above can be found and in SoA altough Firetooth can only be obtained if you do have ToB installed (but you don't have to playing it as Watcher's Keep, where this crossbow can be bought from can be accessed while you are in SoA game). Sister Garlana at the top of the Watcher's Keep will sell you this weapon so you could travel there, just pick up the weapon and then leave and then come back later.

Sling of Everard can only be bought from Joluv in the Copper Coronet if you have Bioware's Bonus Merchants patch installed (or if you have Collector's Edition of the game, the game comes with this already installed).

Tansheron's Bow is probably the easiest weapon to acquire to be able to hit creates that require wepons with +3 enchantment. It can be bought from one of the merchants in Trademeet. This means however, that you must resolve the Djinni problem in Trademeet first.

In addition, here are the stats of an Iron Golem:

Acid: 100
Cold: 100
Magic Cold: 100
Electricity: 100
Fire: 125
Magic Fire: 125
Crushing: 20
Piercing: 20
Slashing: 20
Missile: 20
Magic: 100

This basically means that no elemental damages should be able to damage this guy and moreoever, fire based attacks should heal him (since his resistance if over 100%). No magic will have any effect on him unless you manage to lower his resistances as well. I am not sure about "Magic Damage" resistance as ShadowKeeper does not show this. If his "Magic Damage" resistance is also 100%, even if you manage to lower his magic resistance, magical damaging spells like Horrid Wilting will still have no effect on him.

Since you mentioned that your melee fighters do seem to damage him with weapons that have elemental enchantments, this might be a bug as I *think* (not sure) , I also saw Minsc damage an Iron golem with the Flail of Ages' elemental attacks. If I remember right, if Minsc managed to hit the golem, the damage would show up like this on the toolbar:
19 damage
1 damage
1 damage
1 damage

which to me looked like the acid, cold and fire enchantments from Flail of Ages were actually damaging the guy which should not happen.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure that this is a bug.

Regarding ammo-less ranged weapons: apparently not all of them launch ammo of the same enchantment. Firetooth for example fires +2 fire bolts, and Gesen fires electric bolts of 2 piercing damage and 8 electricity damage... which leaves only Tansheron's bow and Sling of Everard as the only high level ranged weapons. Since +3 arrows are available in ToB Tansheron's Bow just provides the party with unlimited +3 arrows, which don't hit bosses anyway. That leaves the Sling. A limited choice of weapon there.

Originally posted by araknid70
Regarding ammo-less ranged weapons: apparently not all of them launch ammo of the same enchantment. Firetooth for example fires +2 fire bolts, and Gesen fires electric bolts of 2 piercing damage and 8 electricity damage... which leaves only Tansheron's bow and Sling of Everard as the only high level ranged weapons. Since +3 arrows are available in ToB Tansheron's Bow just provides the party with unlimited +3 arrows, which don't hit bosses anyway. That leaves the Sling. A limited choice of weapon there.

So the Firetooth or Gesen's Bow can't actually hit Kangaxx?? Heh, I was told by some people here they could. How do you find this info? I am learning to use ShadowKeeper but some things still don't make sense.

Does ShadowKeeper show the enchantment of the endless ammunition created by weapons such as Firetooth anywhere?

EDIT: Considering the information you provided us, the choices seem to be VERY limited indeed, especially when you factor in the fact that Sling of Everard can only be purchased if you have the Bonus Merchants installed.

In this light, it would seem that archers would indeed suck really bad in ToB against almost everything and against bosses in SoA unless they are equipped with the special sling.

Heh, I was thinking about playing an archer for my next game but I now that I look at it, doesn't seem to be as good a choice as I thought.

Originally posted by araknid70
Regarding ammo-less ranged weapons: apparently not all of them launch ammo of the same enchantment. Firetooth for example fires +2 fire bolts, and Gesen fires electric bolts of 2 piercing damage and 8 electricity damage... which leaves only Tansheron's bow and Sling of Everard as the only high level ranged weapons. Since +3 arrows are available in ToB Tansheron's Bow just provides the party with unlimited +3 arrows, which don't hit bosses anyway. That leaves the Sling. A limited choice of weapon there.

not quite..due to a engine glitch, the +5 enchantment on firetooth and gesen applies to the arrows, and yes it does hit as a +5 weapon...its been tested by various people around the forums, and myself...

and as sytze will attest, a archer is a class of utter wonder and awe...

called shot save penalty stacks with each round, so use an archer with improved haste and called shot on a dragon after lower resistance to hit it with naughty spells...

g deathblow+archer=dead mindflayer...its a slaughter...kill drow, mindflayes, vampires, beholders, etc...the slay-if-you-are-below-level-12 bypasses magic resistance, spell protection, etc...instantly slaughter a room full of mindflayers in a single round...

guard button super cheese was made for the archer, its so obscene...

from the cheese guide...


Guard Button Super Cheese
Now here is one that is truly fiendish.....certain npcs, like Keldorn and Mazzy, have this button on their screen that resembles a shield... have Keldorn or Mazzy equipped with a ranged weapon, like long bow, then buff up a fighter, like Minsc or Saravok, (who can also do this trick) and send him into a room full of monsters, and close the door behind them...click on the guard button of the support ranged fighter, then click on the meelee fighter sent into the room alone, the ranged fighter is now "guarding" the meelee fighter, but he/she cannot be reached thru the closed door...so the ranged fighter will now FIRE THRU THE WALLS in support of the meelee fighter he/she has been assigned to guard...any enemies that the guarded npc attacks will be shot by the ranged fighter if it is within range of the ranged fighter...
tips
this is almost tailor made for abuse, like when you get solafein, you can dimention door him into a room full of nastys and guard him with minsc. activate greater deathblow by minsc, and the slaughter is disgusting....long bows are the best weapon for this, since the long bow range is the best in the game....also, and now we just get really evil, you can guard summons like mordenkainen swords, skeleton warriors, invisible stalkers and such...use wizard eye or farsight to keep control of your summons, send them into a room full of mind flayers, have minsc activate greater deathblow, and add up the experience points....any summons capable of attacking is a valid guardable target. now specific examples....remember gorf the squisher who duels mazzy when you get to the copper coronet? when the duel happens, mazzy is stripped of all her good equipment, but use the guard button with minsc or keldorn, and gorf dies fast...this is also good for the druid grove duel, with faldorn....making the guarded npc, invulnerable to attack, using protection from magic weapons and mislead, just adds to the fun....and you knew i love cheating on duels of honor.

Thanks for all the info!

I guess I'm sticking with the Archer - he is deadly against most creatures at least. I can live with their being the odd creature I can't damage. It was just coming across one fairly early on made me wonder if that was going to be the norm. And I didn't realize thinks like whirlwind applied to range attacks!

As for the acid/flame/cold on the iron golem - I was guessing based on the results. One fighter had a +3 axe with an additional point each of cold and acid - and it always seemed to do 2 damage. Then another had a +3 flail with an additional point each of cold, acid and flame - and it always seemed to do 3 damage. So it seemed to me like I wasn't getting any weapon damage, just cold/acid/flame ...

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
not quite..due to a engine glitch, the +5 enchantment on firetooth and gesen applies to the arrows, and yes it does hit as a +5 weapon...its been tested by various people around the forums, and myself...

Really? That's good. will try it out soon.

Originally posted by araknid70
Really? That's good. will try it out soon.

I am starting a new game with an archer character for the first time tonight. I am also going to be playing evil for a change.

The one problem with the archer kit however is that you need to be of good alignment (you become fallen if you play evil) BUT since I recently installed the Big Picture mod, I discovered that there is a "Marksman" fighter kit available (coming from TDD) if you choose the Elven race.

This sounds like a great kit for anyone who wants to play an evil archer and keep all the abilities (plus I can wear heavy armor!)

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
not quite..due to a engine glitch, the +5 enchantment on firetooth and gesen applies to the arrows, and yes it does hit as a +5 weapon...its been tested by various people around the forums, and myself...


just to clarify, i'm refering to firetooth and gesen WITHOUT AMMO...those weapons will hit kangy, and iron golems...

one more thing...the generic archer from tactics mod can be any alignment, and can reach grandmastery in slings...

and as sytze will tell you, is awesome beyond belief multiclassed to archer mage...

make a archer, elven....then open up sk, and set to multiclass fighter/mage...DO NOT MODIFY THE KIT!!!

sytze and i spent a few days working this out...

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly

and as sytze will tell you, is awesome beyond belief multiclassed to archer mage...

make a archer, elven....then open up sk, and set to multiclass fighter/mage...DO NOT MODIFY THE KIT!!!

sytze and i spent a few days working this out...

WOW, this sounds like a great character. The ability to improve haste AND protect yourself AND shoot slingies with grand mastery...

Wonderful!

-kaitsuburi

Actually I made Nalia finally very usefull: I made her an archer and dualled to mage at lv.9; now she has staying power (hp and prof. in spears/staff), good ranged abilities (GM in s.bows) and she is a good mage.
A very good combo!!!

Hey glenfar, I was wondering what you would possibly looking for equipment ideas for an Archer. If not, I was wondering what you've got for equipment (weapons, armor, etc.).

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Hey glenfar, I was wondering what you would possibly looking for equipment ideas for an Archer. If not, I was wondering what you've got for equipment (weapons, armor, etc.).

Well, when I first started this thread it was still quite early in Chapter 2, so I didn't have much - I think it was Studded Leather +1 and a Longbow +1. Plus an assortment of arrows.

Now I've got the "Night's Gift" - Leather+5, +20% Hide in Shadows. And the "Heartseeker" - Composite Longbow +3, plus once a day get +7 to hit.

Other than the odd golem, he's been pretty deadly, so I'm glad I stuck with him. In big battles, he's great for targetting the magic users - try casting spells when you're getting hit by 4 arrows per round! Of course there's the odd critical miss, and if they have a trigger/contingency setup, they can still get that off ...

As for what I'm looking for - obviously that +5 bow that doesn't require arrows would be really nice! Armor isn't a big concern - I rarely get into melee combat. And now that I have the "Night's Gift", I don't know that I'm going to find anything better.

Originally posted by glenfar
Well, when I first started this thread it was still quite early in Chapter 2, so I didn't have much - I think it was Studded Leather +1 and a Longbow +1. Plus an assortment of arrows.

Now I've got the "Night's Gift" - Leather+5, +20% Hide in Shadows. And the "Heartseeker" - Composite Longbow +3, plus once a day get +7 to hit.

Other than the odd golem, he's been pretty deadly, so I'm glad I stuck with him. In big battles, he's great for targetting the magic users - try casting spells when you're getting hit by 4 arrows per round! Of course there's the odd critical miss, and if they have a trigger/contingency setup, they can still get that off ...

As for what I'm looking for - obviously that +5 bow that doesn't require arrows would be really nice! Armor isn't a big concern - I rarely get into melee combat. And now that I have the "Night's Gift", I don't know that I'm going to find anything better.

Minor

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Late in Shadows of Amn, you'll be able to find a +4 Longbow which will likely make your troubles over, until late in the expansion at least.

Hey the sling is considered a ranged weapon right? I remember there's a sling that gives you strength damage bonus, and as an archor you get +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels, which means.... at level 30 you can probably do 30 damage each hit with that sling.

Anyone wants to correct me? If not I'll get an archor, too.

Coco