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Sorcerer:

race: human (cause of the lack of feats!) - or elf/half-elf for the free longbow feat !


alignement:

doesn't matter


weapon&equipment:

- ring of protection +2


skills:

concentration, tumble


necessary feats:

- SF evocation
- GSF evocation
- combat casting
- SP
- GSP


optional feats:

- SF X & GSF X


Stats: Anything with negitive modifiers is bad.

STR: if glaive at least 16 otherwise 10-12
DEX: at least 16 (+2 for elf) - you will need DEX for an adequate AC and reflex/tumble saves !
CON: at least 16 (-2 for elf) - you will need CON for adequate HP ,fort. saves and concentration checks !
INT: at least 10, the INT stat doesn't matter all!
WIS: at least 10 - more to improve will saves
CHA: Most important stat - 18 increase to 20 at level 4 and 8 !


Spells:

When having a secondary wizard:

level 1: 5 - mage armor, magic missile, Burning Hands, more spells you like
level 2: 4 - Acid Arrow, web, more spells you like
level 3: 3 - fireball, Lighting Bolt, one more spell you like
level 4: 2 - icestorm, one more spell you like
level 5: 1 - cone of cold or cloudkill

most important spells for the secondary Arcane:
haste, imp. inv., good hope, stoneskin, confusion, cloudkill, keen edge


tactics:


- always keep your sorc away drom melee !

- always make a 5-feet step back when close to an enemy !

- always use mage armor (until you have bracers +3), shield and barkskin (from druid) - if necessary other defensive spells !
- Don't worry about a ranged or melee weapon. The spell caster resorts to those when out of spells. Spell caster are artilery.

- fireballs will do tons of damage - with this sorc build most enemies won't save

- especially in TOEE with many low level enemies !

- two fireballs (one from the secondary wizard) will kill most monsters before the battle starts !

- an empowered fireball (level 5 slot) is even better !

Cleric:

race: human (cause of the lack of feats!)


alignement:

Chaotic Nutral (for domains Death and War)


domains:

War (Free weapon focus of gods choice), Death (Death Strike- level one Slave living) - alternate Magic


weapon & equipment:

- Scyth or other melee weapon...proficent, focused or War domained


- ring of protection +2
- ring of freedom of movement
- +2 Chain, +2 Banded or Hedracks plate (+3)
- Unless useing Scyth (x4 crt) Elvin Sheild


skills:

Heal, concentration, tumble


necessary feats:

- Any thing you would give a mage or a fighter.


Stats:


STR: least 16

DEX: No more then 12, likely will be wearing up to full plate which doesn't allow more DEX modifer then +1 anyway.

CON: at least 16 - you will need CON for adequate HP ,fort. saves and concentration checks !

INT: you only need INT for the skills spellcraft, concentration and tumble ! - if you don't have at least 12, the INT stat doesn't matter at all !

WIS: Most important stat - 18 increase to 20 at level 4 and 8 !

CHA: Secound most importent stat for Cleric, devine buffing use's CHA as a bonus to it or multipler. Screw Turning undead, that has a chance to make them run, instead Rebuke then at least 14 better 16 -



Spells:

- clerics Aren't ment to deal spell damage. They self buff, heal, and annoy.

- the most power-up spells are weak early in the game and useless at the end of the game cause you get most effects by crafted items

- The more time you spend casting protection in a fight the less damage you can be giveing to the cause of your pain.

- so the most usefull spells are the instant healing spells (by pressing shift when selecting a spell from the radial menue) - but also the best ones (heal and mass heal) aren't available


from my point of view the following spells are the most usefull divine spells in TOEE:

Any spell that allows that either helps the party or hinders the enemy.


tactics:

...clerics are necessary for healing - they are good secondary tanks with a good AC (up to 30+) but only dealing average damage caused by their lack of base attack...

Originally posted by shadowriath
Sorcerer:

race: human (cause of the lack of feats!) - or elf/half-elf for the free longbow feat !

weapon&equipment:

- ring of protection +2

you should better use the:

bracers+5 (better then mage armor)
gauntlets +6 DEX (+3AC)
and especially the cloak of +6 CHA (to increase DC of your spells!)

Originally posted by shadowriath
necessary feats:

- SF evocation
- GSF evocation
- combat casting
- SP
- GSP

there are only very few enemies with SR in TOEE (btw. fireballs are the adequate way to kill many weaker enemies and not the bosses!) so SP and GSP are a little bit wasted for them...

but I would recommend imp. init. cause the 1st fireballs are the most effective !

Originally posted by shadowriath
Stats: Anything with negitive modifiers is bad.

INT: at least 10, the INT stat doesn't matter all!

if you have an INT of 4 or 10 doesn't matter - you always get at least 1 SP per level even with an negative modifier - and a 2nd one for being human...

...so you will only get positive effects when having 12 or 14 INT but no negative effects with less then 10 !

Originally posted by shadowriath
Spells:

When having a secondary wizard:

level 1: 5 - mage armor, magic missile, Burning Hands, more spells you like
level 2: 4 - Acid Arrow, web, more spells you like
level 3: 3 - fireball, Lighting Bolt, one more spell you like

- ray of enfeeblement is one of the best 1st level spells !
- burning hands has only a touch attack AFAIK
- Melfs AA also has a ranged touch attack AFAIK
- lightning bolt is scrappy cause you only hit a few enemies and there are only few ones with a good fire-prot. - and with bad luck you hit yourself !

Originally posted by shadowriath
tactics:

- Don't worry about a ranged or melee weapon. The spell caster resorts to those when out of spells. Spell caster are artilery.

generally right - but in TOEE a Sorc can do more damage (to a single target) with a glaive then with a spell !


.

Originally posted by shadowriath
Cleric:

alignement:

Chaotic Nutral (for domains Death and War)


domains:

War (Free weapon focus of gods choice), Death (Death Strike- level one Slave living) - alternate Magic


weapon & equipment:

- Scyth or other melee weapon...proficent, focused or War domained


necessary feats:

- Any thing you would give a mage or a fighter.


CHA: Secound most importent stat for Cleric, devine buffing use's CHA as a bonus to it or multipler. Screw Turning undead, that has a chance to make them run, instead Rebuke then at least 14 better 16 -


tactics:

...clerics are necessary for healing - they are good secondary tanks with a good AC (up to 30+) but only dealing average damage caused by their lack of base attack...

...hmmm - I'm not 100% sure if it's possible to create a cleric with war domain who rebukes undead and have instant heal spells (normally he will have instant harm spells instead) but I have to admit that I never tried this...


...from my point of view the ability to craft holy and axiomatic weapons (best weapons in TOEE without scather and fragarach) is the main reason (together with instant heal) to use a cleric...

...so I wouldn't sacrifice these for a little better AB ! (and AB is really no problem in TOEE for a cleric !)


...and from where do you have the information that divine buffing uses CHA as multiplier ?!


the main reason clerics only do mediocre damage is not the AB - buffed clerics with gauntlets of STR+6 and (!) righteous might give you a very good AB...

...the missing feats: 2WF, whirlwind, imp. crit. or at least cleave are the main problem...


.

Paladins and Clerics use the same devine buffing spells that both use CHA modifer. Also CHA and WIS are modifers to healing as well as level.

Great Cleave is more effective then whirlwind, same ffect but with out the minus to AB. Plus is attainable with less feat slots.

Theres two forms of combat damage, multipule tiny bits or one large chunk.

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Lighting Bolt if aimmed currectly will hit a good number. Also is one of a few attcks that can hit enemys that spawn in the wall dureing rest. Produce Fire is the other attack I've found that can hit them.

Trolls are only killable with fire and acid only in ToEE, lighting and sun don't count. Plus Melfs AA is one of the very few damageing spells in the level 2 slot even not limeted to ToEE.

Originally posted by shadowriath
Paladins and Clerics use the same devine buffing spells that both use CHA modifer. Also CHA and WIS are modifers to healing as well as level.

...in all D&D rule-versions I know the WIS modifier, and only the WIS modifier effects divine spells ! so please tell me an example or better the source of this info...

Originally posted by shadowriath
Great Cleave is more effective then whirlwind, same ffect but with out the minus to AB. Plus is attainable with less feat slots.

these are completely different attacks you can't compare them that way:

...you will only cleave (or great cleave) if you have killed the first targeted enemy...

...but with whirlwind you will always (!) attack all (!) enemies in range ! and that makes quite a difference !

Originally posted by shadowriath
Theres two forms of combat damage, multipule tiny bits or one large chunk.

...sorry don't understand a word - please explain


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Originally posted by shadowriath
Lighting Bolt if aimmed currectly will hit a good number. Also is one of a few attcks that can hit enemys that spawn in the wall dureing rest. Produce Fire is the other attack I've found that can hit them.

...don't said lightning bolt is generally weak - but I haven't found any situation where I would use a lightning-bolt instead of a fireball so far...

and btw. never saw anyone spawning inside a wall - do you use a patched version ?

Originally posted by shadowriath
Trolls are only killable with fire and acid only in ToEE, lighting and sun don't count. Plus Melfs AA is one of the very few damageing spells in the level 2 slot even not limeted to ToEE.

...oh my god - what are you doing ?! - bash on trolls with your prefered melee weapons (counts only as unlethal damage) until they go down and then kill them through cutting off their head (coup de grace) never killed any troll with fire or acid - much to complicated !

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