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Although I am new as a Gamebanshee member, I have been contemplating on sor posts for a long time.

I'm planning on creating a Sorceror. He should be able to do solo and work in a party at the same time(solo takes priority though).

This message was originally directed to cheese-master Userunfriendly and to the infamous spell master Xyx. However, I also hope that other users can comment on the spell selections I've made, including the ones that I wrote "no doubts", because on sor's spell selection, I just can't be sure on anything...The final choice comes at the moment when the least doubts exist.

Several doubts strikes me, and I'd like to have your opinion on that(if you have time and are interested).
Level 1, small doubts: Magic Missle, Chromatic Orb, Identify, Spook, Shield(if blur not chosen)-Friends(if it really benefits me)-Charm Person(for the fun)

On level 2, I chose Mirror Image, Blur, Web, knock and resist fear. But I heard that Melf's arrow disrupts spell casting. Should I replace it with Blur? All others seems to be indispensible.

On Level 3, little doubts:
Skull Trap, haste, MMM, flame arrow(good combat spell without hurting self), dispel-remove magic? Vampire touch is also good but...no room for it.
I know that remove magic is certainly better than dispel magic when soloing. But have you tried using Contingency-Dispel magic on self, while under insect plague? If it works, dispel magic seems to be a better option than remove magic.

Level 4, no doubts: Stone skin, greater Malison, Minor spell sequencer, teleport field, wizard's eye.

Level 5, no doubts: Animated dead (too good to forego), sunfire (ignore magic res), breach, spell immunity, lower res. Chaos is also good, but it's dispensible. Cloudkill is provided by wands.

On level 6, I choose Contingency, Mislead, PWM (those are indispensible) and True sight, deathspell. But I also want improved haste, which can be casted on Planers to double their combat prowness...I also like tensler transformation....which will come quite in handy when using the Shapeshift spell. But sacrificing True sight and deathspell will be very painful in solo...can you help me out of this maze?

On level 7, I have chosen Project Image! Spell Sequencer, Ruby Ray, Massinvisibility and Powerword: stun.
I have the option of dumping powerword stun for Mordenkainen's sword(which is quite tempting...). And use the level 8 spell: Symbol Stun to compensate the loss of Powerword: stun. The symbol also acts as a trap, which can be useful and safe before facing big battles.

On level 8 I have Simi! Abi! Spell Trigger, Incendiary Cloud and Powerword Blind. Either one(or which one?) of the last two can be sacrificed for Symbol Stun.

Level 9: No doubts: Time stop, Chaincontingency, wish, Imprisonment, Powerword:kill (Shapechange, if tensler is chosen). I didn't choose spell trap, because it's provided by the staff of magi, and I would prefer recharging spells using the "Wish" way.


Mu

another thing

About Alignment:
Can the Cat open lockets? Can it be hasted like your rabbit?
All familiars seem to be useless in TOB. Should I choose a particular alignment for soloing, or should I just pick the alignment that pleases me personally?

MBZ, welcome to the forums. You may want to do a search on "sorcerer," since there are more than a dozen threads giving many opinions about reasonable spell configurations. Everybody seem to have their own take.

One other point. Please don't ask people to email you their opinions. This is a board; all information is meant to be shared. If you want to take part in the forum, all well and good. We're not a dropping zone for people looking for private sources of good advice. I've removed your request for private replies, as a result.

Hope you'll hang around, and I'm sure you'll receive some opinions, shortly.

level one...

friends or shield...charm person is not a good spell, due to very large number of charm immune items/creatures in the game...also, certain artifacts you can pick up later in the game will be much more fun...and work on any creature that can be charmed, no save...

2

blur is a good spell, and would stack with mirror image to provide excellent protection..however, mirror image is much superior, since it protects you from ALL area effect spells, like inc cloud, cloudkill, skull trap, etc...and you can buy cloak later in the game to give you perminent blur... and melf acid arrows or minute meteors is a MUST for solo...best of course to have both...but melf minute meteors is much more important..

3

yes, dispell contingency would work...ok, it don't matter...since you can make yourself immune to insect plague by spell immunity conjuration, take remove...

or if you're worried about dispelling your own spell protections, you can make yourself immune to your own dispell magic by spell immunity abjuration...

see? using spell immunity, you can make yourself immune to the drawbacks of either spell...

6
dump contingency, and rely on scrolls...you're going to level up fast, so you'll get chain contingency fairly soon...

7
dump stun...power word blind which you plan on works much much better, and is area effect too... small area, but is a good spell..i woudn't bother with symbol stun either...too easy to get caught in its effects...

good choices..

MY take..

[QUOTE=mbz]Although I am new as a Gamebanshee member, I have been contemplating on sor posts for a long time.

I'm planning on creating a Sorceror. He should be able to do solo and work in a party at the same time(solo takes priority though).

This message was originally directed to cheese-master Userunfriendly and to the infamous spell master Xyx. However, I also hope that other users can comment on the spell selections I've made, including the ones that I wrote "no doubts", because on sor's spell selection, I just can't be sure on anything...The final choice comes at the moment when the least doubts exist.

Several doubts strikes me, and I'd like to have your opinion on that(if you have time and are interested).
Level 1, small doubts: Magic Missle, Chromatic Orb, Identify, Spook, Shield(if blur not chosen)-Friends(if it really benefits me)-Charm Person(for the fun)

On level 2, I chose Mirror Image, Blur, Web, knock and resist fear. But I heard that Melf's arrow disrupts spell casting. Should I replace it with Blur? All others seems to be indispensible.

On Level 3, little doubts:
Skull Trap, haste, MMM, flame arrow(good combat spell without hurting self), dispel-remove magic? Vampire touch is also good but...no room for it.
I know that remove magic is certainly better than dispel magic when soloing. But have you tried using Contingency-Dispel magic on self, while under insect plague? If it works, dispel magic seems to be a better option than remove magic.

Level 4, no doubts: Stone skin, greater Malison, Minor spell sequencer, teleport field, wizard's eye.

Level 5, no doubts: Animated dead (too good to forego), sunfire (ignore magic res), breach, spell immunity, lower res. Chaos is also good, but it's dispensible. Cloudkill is provided by wands.

On level 6, I choose Contingency, Mislead, PWM (those are indispensible) and True sight, deathspell. But I also want improved haste, which can be casted on Planers to double their combat prowness...I also like tensler transformation....which will come quite in handy when using the Shapeshift spell. But sacrificing True sight and deathspell will be very painful in solo...can you help me out of this maze?

On level 7, I have chosen Project Image! Spell Sequencer, Ruby Ray, Massinvisibility and Powerword: stun.
I have the option of dumping powerword stun for Mordenkainen's sword(which is quite tempting...). And use the level 8 spell: Symbol Stun to compensate the loss of Powerword: stun. The symbol also acts as a trap, which can be useful and safe before facing big battles.

On level 8 I have Simi! Abi! Spell Trigger, Incendiary Cloud and Powerword Blind. Either one(or which one?) of the last two can be sacrificed for Symbol Stun.

Level 9: No doubts: Time stop, Chaincontingency, wish, Imprisonment, Powerword:kill (Shapechange, if tensler is chosen). I didn't choose spell trap, because it's provided by the staff of magi, and I would prefer recharging spells using the "Wish" way.
Mu[/QUOTE]

Apart from UU's comments, my 2 gold worth: Don't forget you can make good use of PI+scroll to fake having a spell once you reach level 14
L1 - you can drop identify -plan to buy/quest the spectacles & use scrolls untill then, for a defensive spell like shield. Or not, no biggie

L2 - Mirror Image, knock, web, resist fear are all good - you might want to consider glitterdust, stinky cloud or even horror (UU is dubious of that spell, but I've had a lot of luck with it, it's party-friendly and not range hobbled like glitterdust) - OTOH Horror is a Bhaalspawn ability.

L3 - skull trap is theoretically better, but I have a lot of trouble with ranging it right - I usually use fireball. Invis 10' radius is worth considering, too - poor man's mass invis I'd have ONE of flame arrow or MMM. Vamp.touch = TEH SUK (IMAO), and is (in any case) available as a Bhaalspawn ability on some alignments.

L4 - I always pick MInor sequencer iommediately after skins, but I'm a trigger freak

L5 take animate dead later - it's only really worth it once you reach level 14 - so you may want to rejuggle the order.

L6 -ProMagic Energy is pretty useful, too, Ruby Ray is certainly handy, but l never use it that much - use PIs and scrolls....Probably live without death spell, so I'd pick 5 from True sight / Contingency /Pro MW / Mislead / Pro ME / Improved Haste

L7 - I would dump Spell Sequencer from 7 - you can get the much superior level 8 Spell trigger two levels after PI - I'd go PI, Sword, Mass Invis, DB Fireball and then limited wish or ruby ray (flavor to taste)

L8 - Trigger, ADHW, PW blind, then flavour to taste with Bigby, Incendiary cloud, simulacrum, etc.

L9 - Chain Contingency first, IMAO, then flavour to taste.

[QUOTE=mbz]About Alignment:
Can the Cat open lockets? Can it be hasted like your rabbit?
All familiars seem to be useless in TOB. Should I choose a particular alignment for soloing, or should I just pick the alignment that pleases me personally? [/QUOTE]

IMAO, Familiars should NEVER be allowed in combat. None are good enough fighters to justify the risk.
I don't believe any familiars can open locks, though the ferret can steal (invaluable for certain sneaky cheese tricks) and detect traps. Pick alignment to taste, by all means - apart from your familiar, it also affects your Bhaalspawn abilities, but none of those are gotta have items...

...lost

lvl1-no charm person
lvl2-no blur,yes melfs
lvl3-no vampiric touch,yes remove magic
lvl4-no minor spell sequencer and teleport field,
lvl5-ok
lvl6-no contingency
lvl7-ruby ray,mordenkai sword,protect image
lvl8-simulacrum,abim dahlzim,spell trigger
lvl9-imprisionement,chain contingency,spell trap*,time stop
*do the xyx trick to have your spells back using protect image.....
best spell selection if u desagree ure wrong.........
gh hf..........

oh yeah, i forgot...

choose lawful neutral...

ferret has best pick pocket skill in game...very handy for solo, since you can pickup a ring of regen early in the game...mirror image, stoneskin and spell immunity for maze traps with knock will get you by without a familiar with good trap skills...

neph, i have to say spell sequencer is darned useful, i too am a trigger freak, and the nice thing about spell sequencer is that its darned more useful than minor sequencer, which really is only good for instant buff spells, like mirror image, and spook attacks...whereas the spell sequencer is darned useful for skullfire attacks...

mirror image, skull, skull...activate spell sequencer on SELF...your instant mirror image will protect you from your own skulltraps, and at high levels you can inflict massive magic damage on anything near you..better than sunfire on those pesky fire immune creatures..

fireball can be replaced by fireball wand...and i tend to use skull trap not as a ranged spell, but like sunfire, as mentioned above, and as a trap spell...

ruby ray should ONLY be chosen if you install tactics mod...breach, and remove/dispell magic will completely suffice if you don't install tactics mod..especially if you have a party. breach, remove magic (remove is more useful if you have a party to get rid of enemy protections) and attack with melee, or send in skeleton warriors...ruby ray is only necessary to attack smarter liches and mages...

Familiars:
----------

Alignment Familiar AC HP Abilities
--------------- ------------- -- -- ----------------------------------
Lawful Good Pseudo Dragon -2 24 50% magic resistance, renders
victims unconscious, casts Blur

Neutral Good Pseudo Dragon -2 24 (same as above)

Chaotic Good Fairy Dragon 4 24 32% magic res., casts Invisibility
10' Radius & Mirror Image 1/day

Lawful Neutral Ferret 0 24 50% magic res., 75% Pickpocket,
40% Stealth, 20% Detect Traps

True Neutral Rabbit -4 16 50% Detect Traps, 30% Stealth,
75% resistance to fire, cold, elec

Chaotic Neutral Cat 0 24 20% Pickpocket, 99% Stealth,
50% magic res.

Lawful Evil Imp 2 18 Polymorphs, 25% magic res.

Neutral Evil Dust Mephit 6 24 Casts Glitterdust 2/day, 10% magic
res.

Chaotic Evil Quasit 2 24 Casts Horror, 25% magic resist.

Note: To get items that were pickpocketed by a Familiar, talk to the
Familiar and ask for any items they have.

I hate having to make up my mind about which spells to give to my Sorcerors. But I never solo the game, so I can always make up for missing spells by letting other party members cast spells.

Instead of Teleport Field, you might consider another spell that can render groups of monsters unable to attack you--Emotion: Hopelessness. It has the same area of effect, saving throw, and casting time as Teleport Field and it lasts just about as long, depending on level.

I'm glad to see that Spook and Chromatic Orb are on your list. I think those are underrated spells. I also agree with nephtu that you should consider Glitterdust and Horror, especially if you are using summoned help more than area-effect offensive damage spells (which to me are mutually exclusive).

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]...the spell sequencer is darned useful for skullfire attacks... mirror image, skull, skull...activate spell sequencer on SELF...your instant mirror image will protect you from your own skulltraps, and at high levels you can inflict massive magic damage on anything near you..better than sunfire on those pesky fire immune creatures..

fireball can be replaced by fireball wand...and i tend to use skull trap not as a ranged spell, but like sunfire, as mentioned abovel...

...breach, remove magic (remove is more useful if you have a party to get rid of enemy protections) and attack with melee, or send in skeleton warriors...[/QUOTE]
See, this is what I'm talking about. If you send in melee warriors or summoned monsters, you don't want to bomb them with skulltraps and fireballs. So choose one strategy or the other from battle to battle.

More...

I should add that I'm a heavy summoner, but to address UU's comments, since I always take PI as my first level 7 choice, by the time I get to a second choice, I'm only only one level away from spell trigger, which is so much nicer than sequencer that it's no contest (for me) - your choice may differ. VonDondu puts it very well in saying you will typically either use lots of non-party friendly area of effect stuff like web and cloudkill and sunfire and such or lots of summons, but not both. Also, some people just seem to have better results with certain spells - I'm always hitting party members with skull traps, but rarely with fireballs, and spook just never seems to stick for me, but I've had a lot of luck with 2 X Horror in a minor sequencer (at least at lower levels)

Good gaming!

aha...much more enlighted

I've just written a long long reply....and something went wrong on the webpage, and I lost all that I wrote... (it might have been a reason why I didn't go to forums that much...)

First, thanks all of you for your comments! I didn't expect to receive so many replies in such little time!

Ok, to be brief:
2 Where do I get that cloak of blur? Is it superior than Cloak of Mirroring/nondetection?
6 Should I dump True sight and Contingency for Improved Haste and Tensler's transformation? True sight can be replaced by the book of infinate spells (only 1 charge, but rechargable).
7 I was a bit confused on the part talking about ruby ray. Can dispel magic get rid of Spell Trap?? Why is ruby ray useless in normal versions?
8 Is Incendiary cloud superior than symbol: stun? Does Spell immunity: Conjuration protect me from the stun effects? (can I have two spell immunities stacked up?)

to User:
Coincidentally. Lawful Neutral was the alignment that I like the most!

lipe: don't be evasive...what is "gh hf........." What spells would you propose to replace minor spell sequencer (I love all sequencers, cause they work when shapeshifting and tenslertransformation) and teleport field (allows no saving throw). Emotion? as Vondondu suggested?

From now on, I will always "copy and paste" what I wrote before pushing the submit button...

[QUOTE=mbz]I've just written a long long reply....and something went wrong on the webpage, and I lost all that I wrote... (it might have been a reason why I didn't go to forums that much...)

First, thanks all of you for your comments! I didn't expect to receive so many replies in such little time!

Ok, to be brief:
2 Where do I get that cloak of blur? Is it superior than Cloak of Mirroring/nondetection?[/QUOTE]
Displacer cloak, I think, you can buy it in Trademeet.

[QUOTE=mbz]6 Should I dump True sight and Contingency for Improved Haste and Tensler's transformation? True sight can be replaced by the book of infinate spells (only 1 charge, but rechargable).[/QUOTE]
Level 6 just has some tough choices. Not a bad thought using the book.

[QUOTE=mbz]7 I was a bit confused on the part talking about ruby ray. Can dispel magic get rid of Spell Trap?? Why is ruby ray useless in normal versions?[/QUOTE]
Remove/dispel magic can get rid of ANYTHING - assuming it sticks, unless your target has immunity to spells below level 5 (as liches do) Ruby ray isn't useless in normal game, it's just much more useful with improved mages and liches.

[QUOTE=mbz]8 Is Incendiary cloud superior than symbol: stun? Does Spell immunity: Conjuration protect me from the stun effects? (can I have two spell immunities stacked up?)[/QUOTE]
I've had no joy with either of those two spells. Spell protections CAN stack - you can have multiple (even all if you like) spell immunities up at once. SI-Div + others is a wicked combination because then you can't be true sighted, so you can remain untargetable by single target spells with the residual effects of improved invisibility.

[QUOTE=mbz]to User:
Coincidentally. Lawful Neutral was the alignment that I like the most!

lipe: don't be evasive...what is "gh hf........." What spells would you propose to replace minor spell sequencer (I love all sequencers, cause they work when shapeshifting and tenslertransformation) and teleport field (allows no saving throw). Emotion? as Vondondu suggested?

From now on, I will always "copy and paste" what I wrote before pushing the submit button... [/QUOTE]
Emotion and teleport field are both nice party-friendly spells.

it was to be gl hf=good luck have fun..........

lvl4-u can have minor spell sequencer and teleport field if u like it but it sux......
lvl6-put tenser instead of contingency

spell immunity conjuration will NOT protect you from stun effects...but there is a nice ring in spellhold, and a cleric spell (free action) that will protect you from stun...(the ring will not only protect you from stun, but charm/dominate)

read my cheese guide to find out how to use ring and boots of speed at same time...

less well known spell immunity tricks:
spell immunity alteration will stop teleport field, useful against smarter mages.
spell immunity divination will stop attribute drain in selfishness test in hell
spell immunity illusion will stop blindness attacks.

i completely advise against tensor's transformation...for a sorc, its just not worth the spell casting disabling...better to use tricks with mazing yourself, or send in summons ahead of you...true sight and improved haste are both wonderful spells..

improved haste makes melf minute meteors incredibly powerful, great with mindflayer shapechange, and doubles regeneration rate if you have a regen item...also turns a mordenkainen sword into a killer weapon..the book is a darned good idea...

remove/dispell will not get rid of spell trap, or globe of invulnerability type of spells...but it will dissolve any COMBAT and ELEMENTAL protections, so use remove, then attack with summons or melee or attack with elemental attacks like flame arrow, or melf minute meteors..

ruby ray is only useful for people who use save or else spells, like finger of death, or in tactics mod against smarter liches who use a nasty improved invisiblity/multiple spell immunity combination...

i'm not an emotion fan...but then again, my sorceress is wickedly cheated...

the cloak of mirroring is a naughty naughty item...superior to all other cloaks in the game, if you can stand the ugly whiffle ball...(hint: download ease of use mod...it gets rid of whiffle ball..) it makes you completely immune to all directed spells cast at you...like finger of death, polymorph, etc...

incindiary cloud is my old favorite killer...it is the most powerful damage over time spell for sorcerors...its well worth getting, and far superior to symbol stun, which is a dangerous spell unless you have the ring of free action...too easy to get caught in the effect area...and for trapping, you've already picked skull trap...(my sorceresse's new favorite kill spell is firestorm...ignores magic resistance )

nephtu is right, its hard using skull trap, but you can buy a fireball wand in the game, so you really don't need the spell...i actually prefer wand of cloudkill over the fireball wand...

teleport field is killer with a couple of improved hasted skeletons...it completely disables melee monsters like urm...umber hulks, mindflayers, drow swordsmen...etc...send in improved hasted skellys or swords after tossing in a teleport field, does wicked damage...i personally prefer spells that are useful for the entire game over spells, no matter how truely useful early in the game (but emotion isn't all that good in tob...but seriously wonderful in soa) and i've had good luck with telly field...mandatory for eclipse in solafein mod...btw...teleport field completely ignores magic resistance and cannot be saved against...

it really is a matter of taste...make selections, and get a small party, including aerie, and use her to try different spells...find out what works for you...

hummm

Again, thanks for all your suggestions!

The problem now is that I don't have access to my personal computer...at least not until 2 weeks later I get back home. (I'm dying to try all those spells out myself... )

I am getting remove magic, Improved Haste and Mordenkainen's Sword for sure. Maybe that is sufficient against Hordes of FireGiants? I cannot cast spells during shape Change anyway, so why not use tensler's transformation? (I'll try it out myself, if this shapechange tactic is worth my slots)

I have had awful experiences against enemies using symbol:Stun, which is the reason why I think of it so often now. (I will apply the ring of free action when soloing anyways. And I know the cheese part already ) But I should try out Incendiary Cloud as well, a good upgrade from Cloudkill.

The level4 spell Polymorph Self could serve as a slow healing spell. And I don't know about Minor Globe of Invulnerablity. Does it protect you from your own skull traps? And also far sight. These are all options to replace minor spell sequencer, I guess. I too, had good old memories using teleport field...

Can Deathspell kill any summoned creature below level 9? (excluding simis) For example, can it kill the Slayers being summoned at the last battle of TOB? If not, the spell also seems dispensible...

I encountered a bug in spell hold with the newest official patch. There is supposed to be 12 bowls in a room, where you put in the artifects. One of them is missing. Therefore I can't complete the quest.

I've had Aerie in most of my save games...I'm getting tired of her now

ah...

A correction from what I just said. I just discovered(don't laugh at me) that a sorceror can only advance till level 31 without cheating. At that time, only 4 spell slots are available for both level 8 and level 9 spells. Saves me the time for chosing.

ease of use mod, xp cap remover...

get shapechange scroll, cast, then cntrl-r your sorceror(with cheats enabled)...you now keep the shapechange buttons forever...

cloak of sewers is superior to polymorph self...

death spell is very useful against umber hulks, gibberling hordes, orc groups..and instantly kills enemy summons...the slayers in tob, aren't affected, but it will serve you well thru the game....

press tab in spell hold, sounds like you're overlooking a container...

I did press TAB...but there was only 11 containers...one of the statues is missing. This didn't happen when I played SOA-TOB the first time.

The good thing about sequencers is that they actually give you extra spells to spend during big battles. Just fill all triggers, sequencers, contingencies up, and then rest (or use wish). It better prepares you for the big battle. Minor spell sequencer saves you 2 low level spells. While a Contingency saves you one 6 level spell, and saves you a round.
That's the reason why I have been so hesitant to give up Contingency...In some occasions it can even save your butt. Imagine several MindFlayers approaching you, their horrid tentacles hurling around your face...You have just loaded a series of sunfire and now, oops, you're against the wall...what do you do? Other than pressing "O" and reload, you can use contingency: PMW. Level 9 spells are a lot more precious than 6 level spells....

[QUOTE=mbz]I did press TAB...but there was only 11 containers...one of the statues is missing. This didn't happen when I played SOA-TOB the first time.

The good thing about sequencers is that they actually give you extra spells to spend during big battles. Just fill all triggers, sequencers, contingencies up, and then rest (or use wish). It better prepares you for the big battle. Minor spell sequencer saves you 2 low level spells. While a Contingency saves you one 6 level spell, and saves you a round.
That's the reason why I have been so hesitant to give up Contingency...In some occasions it can even save your butt. Imagine several MindFlayers approaching you, their horrid tentacles hurling around your face...You have just loaded a series of sunfire and now, oops, you're against the wall...what do you do? Other than pressing "O" and reload, you can use contingency: PMW. Level 9 spells are a lot more precious than 6 level spells....[/QUOTE]

actually pfmw is fast enough spell casting that with robes of vecna you really cast instantly...(with certain spells, like spell casting speed below 4, its FASTER to simply cast the spell than to wait for contingency or chain contingency to trigger)..the two best are chain contingency and spell trigger...you can get away with hoarding spell sequencer and minor sequencer and contingency scrolls...you can't use simmy or project image to keep the scrolls, but you can save them for the big battles...yeah, i'm fond of them too...so i gave all of them to my kensai sorceress using sk...

hold on...there are only 11 containers!!! according to my copy of the vs guide walkthru of the game, only 11 containers exist!!

ok, the 12th ITEM, the scroll, with gibberish on it, is not necessary to get the dusty rose ioun stone...

Thanks (note: contains spoiler)

UserUnfriendly, you're my greatest helper--thanks...
So, True Sight is better than Contingency...At first I was going to dump the former.

For some reason I don't know, my other thread on Sor's Attributes got erased. I was gonna say, it's easy to get 25 on all attributes, and 90% resistent to magic(get the other 10% at the end of game) without using SK. Open a multiplayer game, use main character to fight to level 4 of Watcher's Keep in front of the machine. Save game, quit game, import your precious character, obtain the attributes, export, quit game, import, load game, and obtain the attributes again. If fast enough, you'll get everything done in 40 mins.
User, you cheese beyond limits...but I play within the rules of the game...(but maybe I'm more shameless) I bet some people have already thought of this idea, since it's so obvious. With 25 str and 25 dex, my Sor will be able to smack people with his staff quite easily...

I wonder what happens if you add another point to your attributes, when they are 25 already...hope nothing bad happens.

Also, can PI clones attack with Black Blade of Disaster?

[QUOTE=mbz]UserUnfriendly, you're my greatest helper--thanks...
So, True Sight is better than Contingency...At first I was going to dump the former.

For some reason I don't know, my other thread on Sor's Attributes got erased. I was gonna say, it's easy to get 25 on all attributes, and 90% resistent to magic(get the other 10% at the end of game) without using SK. Open a multiplayer game, use main character to fight to level 4 of Watcher's Keep in front of the machine. Save game, quit game, import your precious character, obtain the attributes, export, quit game, import, load game, and obtain the attributes again. If fast enough, you'll get everything done in 40 mins.
User, you cheese beyond limits...but I play within the rules of the game...(but maybe I'm more shameless) I bet some people have already thought of this idea, since it's so obvious. With 25 str and 25 dex, my Sor will be able to smack people with his staff quite easily...

I wonder what happens if you add another point to your attributes, when they are 25 already...hope nothing bad happens.

Also, can PI clones attack with Black Blade of Disaster?[/QUOTE]

after 25, you'll roll back to one, i think...only simmys can attack with black blade...but shapeshifted images may attack melee...

while it is possible to exploit attribute draining effects of the machine to roll back int and dex to 25, using import feature of the game is...well, at that point you might as well use sk..the machine, if you press buttons randomly will drain attributes..so using various int and dex setting devices, like ioun stones and gloves, you can set attributes to -1...which the game engine rolls back to 25, cause it won't permit a negative attribute..