GameBanshee Forums

Per Kensai/Mage

I haven't played in years, so I am slightly confused. As much as I love those gleaming katanas (i.e), it appears that staffs have a weapon speed of 1. Staff of the Ram +6 can hit anything and has psychotic damage. You are guaranteed 12 added damage+base weapon damage+(what is this?) added knockback damage I guess? Using Staff of the Magi, one of the sickest weapons in the game, you have the abilty to Dispel whatever bullcrap you are encountering and use thief tactics, and then switch to the ram staff to crush to death. You guys are very experienced/knowledgeable (*no sarcasm*), so what do you think? I totally dig the pro/con charts you all come up with.

And nice forum.

Gramps,

I think you're certainly looking at two of the best items for the kensai mage. On a per round basis, I believe you'll probably dish out less damage than say, a belm/crom, katanas, or any other dual wield combo. But the abilities present in the two staves you mention make up for a lack of overall damage to enemies.

I just started a new game (still in SoA) last week and made a kensai dualled at ninth level. I just hit level 10 for the mage and now have three points in two weapon style with five proficiency points in daggers. There are some nice daggers in the game, but they've always been passed up for "better" weapons. Any way I looked at it, daggers rarely made the cut. So, this is forcing the issue and I must say, I like it a lot.

Presently, the K/M is dual wielding the pixie prck and the stiletto of demarchess. One is a +3 weapon with save vs. sleep on hit and the other is a +2 weapon with save vs. hold on hit. They are efficient, and with a speed factor of zero (for both), she is averaging five attacks to one against most opponents. She is hitting for 19-22 points of damage per attack [+++++ in daggers w/ girdle of hill giant strength], and on a five to one ratio she is taking out opponents while maintaining stoneskins for extended periods of time. The big drawback here is that neither weapon carries any elemental damage with it capable of penetrating stoneskins, which is nice for spell disruption of enemies.

My point in all of this is that I think it really doesn't matter what weapons you carry, the kensai/mage packs a serious whallop. True, my character would be more formidable carrying the staff of the ram and magi, but there are ways to make up for those abilities lost in not possessing them. Same holds true for missing out on celestial fury and dak'kon's blade.

Hope this is some of what you're looking for. Sorry, I have no charts to upload with detailed statistical analysis of various weapon combos. I'd say play the way you feel it. Personal recommendation is to put five points in bastard sword and three points in dual wielding; there are a lot of nice bastard swords throughout the game and some you can obtain early (foebane) speaking from a SoA perspective. I'd do it myself but I currently have too many active games as it is.

Welcome to the boards.

A completely excellent and unbiased answer. Thanks for the quick reply.

well..

Aside from Ned's nifty answer, the answer depends somewhat on what weapons the other characters in your party are using - and MODs change the balance, also (Sanchuudoku, Bloodbane, etc.).

In any case, both are reasonable choices, but don't forget offhanders are really only useful for the benefits they offer YOU, since you'll only get one hit a round with them, so weapons like the equalizer, arbane's, etc. are great offhand choices even if you have no skill with them.

Damage is very close to a wash in tough fights - GWW takes you to max hits anyway, so the damage from two handers is often better than dual wielding. Other weapons to consider are spear, halberd, axes, hammers, and flails. Longsword just doesn't make it untill very late, IMAO, which is sort of wierd, but there you go. I salute Ned for doing daggers - it makes a valid point that the weapons are less important than you might think, though I wish there were a good offhand dagger, with a beneficial effect for the wielder on it - I can't think of one offhand.

I think I have thought of the ultimate dual wield melee fighter/mage combo. The Answerer +4 and Blackrazor +3. You can hit everything, and your defense is dependent on your offensive lowering of your oppenent's defense. Each hit lowers magic resistance and armor class, and sooner or later Blackrazor will come down with a vengeance! MUWAHAHA!

So:

Single Weapon: AC boosters would do well with Staff of the Magi switchable with Staff of the Ram +6 for great damage and defensive capabality (maybe not even lacking in killing speed as the Ram staff is viciously fast). You attack faster than most dual wielders.

Dual Hands: Pure offensive relying on destroying your oppenent's defense for further malice. Answerer +4 and Blackrazor +3. In the Answerer's case, the mods are always present with each hit. Great average from dual wielding, laughably high from Kai.

As for which is better, I don't know. There may not be a better. I would really appreciate it if knowlegeable persons would tell me how many hits could be achieved with level 13 K/M and Improved Haste, as I have no use for Greater Whirlwind. I have no idea where to look for this kind of information.

Thanks for your advice.

EDIT: Hadn't read nephtu's post. Thanks for elucidating on the purpose of the outer hand. In my long sword example, couldn't the outer hand be a source of impressive damage? And damn if you weren't right about good long swords being late game. . .

You know, the more I look into it, the more I realize you guys are right. There are too many awesome weapons in the game. . .

And many improved enemies when you think the normal game is boring.

yeah.................grandpa, when you finish the game with the kensai->mage, try it with a character who's not so...................powerplayed

the advantages over disadvantages for any weapon combo/style are well-discussed but in the end, with such a powerful character, it matters not as there are so many impressive weapons in the end.

Hope this is some of what you're looking for. Sorry, I have no charts to upload with detailed statistical analysis of various weapon combos. I'd say play the way you feel it. Personal recommendation is to put five points in bastard sword and three points in dual wielding; there are a lot of nice bastard swords throughout the game and some you can obtain early (foebane) speaking from a SoA perspective. I'd do it myself but I currently have too many active games as it is.

uhhh foebane is really the ONLY good bastard sword other then the Purifier that pallys get...

isn't the answerer a bastard sword?

That would be awesome Thrain (with Foebane *shudders*), but its a Long Sword. However, I think this is a good thing. Besides, how many people tout long swords other than Blackrazor. Tsk tsk, the little sword's gone unnoticed too long!

Kensai/ Mage with ***** in Quarterstaff and *** in two handed style using the Staff of the Magi is the most powerful character I can think of.

[QUOTE=Raumoheru]uhhh foebane is really the ONLY good bastard sword other then the Purifier that pallys get...[/QUOTE]

I suppose, comparative to other weapons in the game (and in place of the word good, I think you should substitute powerful, as there are plenty of good bastard swords in the game). Anyway, by day two (or sooner), one can be dual wielding the bastard sword +1 from the irenicus dungeon and the bastard sword +1/+3 vs. shapeshifters from Hendak; and it won't cost you a penny (or a gold piece). I'm perhaps overlooking a different route to be dual wielding two magic weapons of the same style as quickly (two magic daggers can be obtained just as quickly ).

I like Jhor the bleeder as the extra 2 damage points per hit per round add up very fast (never checked to see if that extra bleeding damage can disrupt spells) and the blade of searing is a +3 weapon which can be obtained quickly and provides a point of elemental damage. Sure, there are far more powerful weapons in the game, but I tend to stay away from them (crom, razor, FoA, CFury, carsomyr, and so on). I recommended bastard swords because it is my guess they are not commonly selected as the PC's primary weapon, related to my current option of dualling daggers.

sorry gramps if my ideas are too SoA, I do realize you created this thread in the ToB forum. With your K/M, you might want to dual a little earlier than 13th, things are still a challenge with my K/M dualled at 9th but you still get all the HPs, which is nice. And how has blackrazor gone unnoticed for too long , it might be the top weapon in SoA, the only drawback being you get it so late. But it requires the evil path to get it, and I usually play good aligned parties.

[QUOTE=krunchyfrogg]Kensai/ Mage with ***** in Quarterstaff and *** in two handed style using the Staff of the Magi is the most powerful character I can think of.[/QUOTE]

Kensai/mage/thief with ***** in katanas, ***** in long sword and *** in two handed, using as many weapons as possible (for the specific bonuses) and backstabing with Kai for 200 - 250 dmg and lots of invulnerabilities.

Ned, you always have good replies, you simply misread my reply. I said long swords other than Blackrazor are not often touted. Hell, I know you like it .

The Answerer in my opinion is the ultimate Kensai/Mage weapon (other than the nifty [and colorful] stealthing of the Magi staff/Ram staff switcheroo). By that I mean you don't often see 12-13 year olds posting on the board, "0MFG JU GUYZ, @NSW3R3R PWNZ JU!". Besides lowering the armor class on every hit, it lowers magic resistance. Paired with Blackrazor, eventually the armor class will be low enough where it will be able to land a hit and drain levels. The major fault with the Answerer--it's slow. . .really slow. I am going to ask Weimer for an enhancement to lower the speed, and then it really has no competition I think.

I kind of spoiled myself, as I have not played ToB, but isn't Foebane in Watcher's Keep? I don't even know what Watcher's Keep is, but I read that it is perhaps really hard? I figure Foebane wouldn't be just lying around in a trapped box or something. How about a no-spoiler hint for me based on this question:

Is Foebane as hard to get as Celestial Fury?

Merci.

Yeah gramps, I misread your reply. The battle to get foebane is a formidable one, similar in nature to the battle to obtain celestial fury. I say they are equal in difficulty but for different reasons.

nah foebane is easy as pie to get IMO

not nearly as hard as the celestial fury

[QUOTE=Raumoheru]nah foebane is easy as pie to get IMO

not nearly as hard as the celestial fury[/QUOTE]

are you saying this from the context that foebane is easy to acquire period or easy to acquire with a party of level 18 characters. The battle is tough if you try to get foebane with a level 11 party.

Wouldn't you know, I am spending more time thinking of where to place my proficiency points then even playing the game. I have Weimer's item upgrade mod, so its more to consider.

that mod is saving the ass of my solo character right now girdle of glory and sorcerian ring

if you're using item upgrade, literally any weapon class (aside from bastard swords) becomes extremely powerful. both fulcrum and *insert improved club name here* are very powerful. CF+5 :O improved daystar (again +5). improved lilarcor (+5), rings of perservation, water's talon (+4, great equipped effects), the list goes on (and on and on)