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I always wondered which character would be the best in fights. A Kensai is the supreme swordmaster, of course, but a Swashbuckler has the hide in shadows ability and isn't bad as a fighter either. So, which one do you prefer, and why??

I say that the Kensai is better for fights, simply because of the damage potential, especially in combination with the better weapons....then again, kensais are pretty one dimensional (I find so...unless you dual)--I had more fun with a swashbuckler, to be honest; they can be used as scouts, decoys (with their good AC) or and extra ranged attacker with good thaco.

My 2 gold

Kensai are the kings of pure melee damage output. Full fighter THAC0, plus bonuses, Kai, etc. They are, however, quite restricted on gear, so don't do well in defensive melee roles.

Swashbucklers do well in melee damage output, though their THAC0 is still Rogue-based, but they can use a wide variety of gear and armour. They are more balanced and versatile, however.

Both kits go very well as dual- or multi-class characters.

What about Kensai vs Blade... Offensive Spin is an improved version of Kai after all.

Offensive Spin - lasts 24 seconds, +2 to hit, +2 to damage, +1 attack per round, all attacks do maximum damage

Kai - 10 second attack at maximum damage

Blades have the great Defensive Spin too! (-10 AC is always useful ).

Your Blade can cast spells (Imp. Haste anyone? Or maybe Tenser's Transformation? Dont forget about StoneSkin too)

OR

Wear an armor for greater AC.

On the other hand, Kensai get Weapon Grand Mastery (+++++) and a greater Tach0 and blades got only Weapon Profiency (+). and a *crappy* thac0.

EDIT : Almost forgot : Blades get UAI

Yeah, but I know the Blades potential and I'm not really interested in that, thats why I made the Kensai-Swash comparisment.

I never played with a Swashbuckler (NPC and PC alike) and except for Chloe -whom I tried out for a short period of time- I don't have much Kensai experience either. So I was wondering what you people thought about both classes.
Especially the Swashbuckler intrigues me, but I fear he is much less of a fighter than the Kensai...

Ohh, and I'm also considering their usefulness in combination with a multiclass (mage)

Swashy/Mage solo would have a great AC -15 + with good equipment. Probably could get it down to -24 if you went for straight AC

I've used a Swashy/Mage and it's pretty strong. Its a kind of Fighter/Mage/Thief.

Well, can't say I've ever tried either as a single class. But I just finished a couple solo games ... well, actually I didn't finish them, as they got boring after awhile ...

Anyway, first was with a Kensai/Mage, second with a Fighter/Swashbuckler (both done as multiclass thanks to SK). Personally I would say the F/S is the easier combo, with K/M is a little more interesting (both are deadly).

With my F/S, I pretty much just let him run amuck. With around -19 AC, and wielding Carsomyr, he was unstoppable without me doing anything special. Of course the K/M can be unstoppable too, but they do require spells, which means you have to pay more attention to them.

As a side note, if going to dual/multi K/M, I wouldn't put much stock in the Kai ability. The duration is so short, it's only useful in the middle of combat. And generally speaking, if you're having trouble, there's usually a spell you want to cast instead (stoneskin, breach, ...). (And if you're not having trouble, you don't need the Kai).

Heh, I'm not asking this for a new game yet, as I'm still busy with one. I was simply wondering what character to pick for my next game (I always start planning in advance, dunno why...=)

I will try an Archer-Swash-Mage then with no offensive spells. Just defensive so he becomes pure fighter orientated. Why I do this?
That's something I will explain later.

You need the archer part? I do understand this is you, but realistically I would just do swashymage.

I am confused on the value of archer if your plan is to stand in combat and be an unhittable target.

Am currently playing a Fighter/Mage/Swashy in a three player party. With all the extra encounters in Tactics and my Fighter/Mage/Swashy had 5M xp at the end of SoA. Having plenty of fun with him, especially laying Time Traps and going around chopping everyone to death. The basic Mage defense spells help a huge deal too.

Glenfar, i dont think u can go with fighter then dual class or muti-class to swashbuckler. it can only be fighter (or their speical class) to thief or muti-class fighter/thief.

Sytze, for better fighter, i would pick kensai rather than blade. Of course, offensive spin is defintly better than kai ability, but blade belong to the bard class. he cant go pass after 3 stars weapon specialization, and he is not pure mage either. Kensai, on the other hand, is a pure fighter. he got +1 dmg and +1 to hit every three lvl, and -2 speed factor every four lvl. Of course, he cant wear any armor and bracer, however, if u make him dual class, (mostly mage or thief) he will be the boom after u reactivate his ability, with spell casting ability or every skill the thief has.

the kensai/mage can wear bracers.

and with a little SK tweak, it is easy to dual class to a kit.

Sytze, forget all of that.

Play a blade.

Or a Skald.

When you do it, you will know I was right.

[QUOTE=BG_DaDDy]Glenfar, i dont think u can go with fighter then dual class or muti-class to swashbuckler. it can only be fighter (or their speical class) to thief or muti-class fighter/thief.[/QUOTE]

As I said, I had a little help from SK

Well, I wanted to play an Archer-Swishy-Mage, but I encountered a few problems with he class and editing it. You see, if I use an Archer and level him up; he will get a certain amount of attacks per round, even more with grandmastery. However, when I change the class to Swishy-Mage with SK, the a/p round are set back to 1, and if I edit it to, let's say, 4 attacks per round, the game engine automatically sets it back to two attacks per round.. (you still with me? )
After quite the research, me and UU discovered that apparently this is caused by the item files of the bow, because the problem did not occur when I used swords.

So I thought about the Archer-Kensai-Mage again, but if I create that class, I can't use bows, unless I give him UAI. And since I don't want to do that (UAI is an ability that neither of the classes get), I have to think about something different.

And after some thinking, I decided to go with the Kensai-Archer-Mage. So he can use bows and swords, without using an ability that neither of the classes gets.
You might think this is a bit of an overpowered class, and it probably is, but I'm going to nerve the class a lot. You see, my Archer-Mage only gets the to +hit and +damage bonuses from the Kensai. Not the AC, not the thaco and not the speed bonuses, so I will have an enormously toned down Kensai. Plus I will only let my character use bows (a bow for the large part of the fights) and katana's and daggers (2-weapon fighting, and not with 2 katana’s, no, a dagger and a katana).
And last, but certainly not least; the mage spells will only be "blue" spells. Which means he’s only getting defensive spells. There will be no breaching, ADHW'ing, slowing, or even dispelling. Nop, not a single red or white spell will make it into my spell book.

And that was my intention from the start, to have a pure fighter orientated character with mage spells, so I can stand my ground in some of the improved battles.
Since I discovered with the Deathless Journey that I need some mage spells to survive encounters with my playing style, I’m giving it another run with the Kensai-Archer-Mage.
And no, don’t worry; I will not bore you people with another story

My 2 cents, Kensai vs Swashbuckler literally :

Swashbuckler: Trap Set

Kensai: Death to you all!

Trap: Time Stop

Swashbuckler: Whirlwind

An other interesting quetsion is to get a SWASH or a KENSAI dualled to a mage!!
Kensai would be dualled at level 13 and the swash would be dualled at level 15, at last which would be the stronger one???

Kensai has: 3,5 attacks with two weapons, (+++++) proficiency, -2 AC and +4 to hit and damage

Swash has: 2?? attacks with two weapons, (++) proficiency, -4 AC and +3 to hit and damage as well as thieving abilities

What would YOU do?

Kensai/Mage would be stronger, hands down. While spell flinging would solve nothing due to protections, the bulk of the combat would be done through melee, where the Kensai/Mage would undoubtedly win as the accelerated THAC0 and damage gain would be the only thing that sets the two classes appart, considering that both are fully buffed.

Yes, this has been repeatedly discussed before. Kensai/Mage is generally regarded as so strong it almost becomes cheesy. The class trades off time to gain armor and other buffs that are positively godly when combined with kensai abilities.