Outthinking Beholder

flinfman · Post by **flinfman** » Thu Nov 02, 2000 10:50 pm

There is a way to outthink the Beholder guarding the chest in the shark-man cavern: I had Aerie talk to the Beholder (if your wisdom is 16 and up I believe this will work anyway) and I was able to talk him into letting me see what was in the chest without fighting him. Of course if you really want to go toe-to-toe with a Beholder, step on up...

Memnoch · Post by **Memnoch** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 1:03 am

That beholder was the strangest beholder i had ever met. I didn't have to fight him either, he just went away after i convinced him that he was to guard the chest, not what was IN the chest.

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My name is Memnoch..Memnoch the Devil. I have been waiting for you for a VERY long time...

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 4:38 am

The text you get is a bit deceptive in this perspective. My priestess (imported from BG I, which she went through several times) talked to him but she couldn't convince him to stand ... float aside. She remarked that a WISER person might convince him ... her wisdom was 25! I don't think you can find a 'wiser' person.

However, then I talked to him with the mage in my group (also from BG I - Intelligence 20+), and he was able to convince him.

So while the text says you need a WISE person, you actually need an INTELLIGENT person ... tsk, that they make SUCH a mistake ... they ought to be ashamed!

(As a side note: I really enjoyed this particular Beholder! And when my priestess couldn't convince him to move aside, I really couldn't put myself to attacking him, so I searched for an alternative. I especially liked it when he said he had to scare off possible thiefs, and his action following that).

[This message has been edited by Maurice (edited 11-03-2000).]

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 5:21 am

I don't think it is intelligence,either because i convince him with my Player character (a kavalier) with INT less than 10 (9 or 8 i don't remember).His wisdom was 14 (that is the minimum for a paladin).
I had passed this way two times by dialogue and it just worked the same (By the way,funny dialogue.He actually said "I'm here to scary people.So... Boo!")

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 5:58 am

Yeah, I really had to laugh about the 'boo' he did. Definitely the coolest beholder in the entire game. A shame you can't take him along in your party.

As for Wis/Int: my priestess has a Wis of 25 (like I wrote above), and an Int of somewhere around 10 or so. The mage had an Int of 20+ (not exactly sure what it was), and a Wis of 13 IIRC.

Perhaps the game can't handle too high values for those attributes in this particular case .. a shame really.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 7:34 am

I think he is probably the coolest character in the game, i think Interply should market him as a Christmas present, just imagine the fright you could have when he goes boo on Christmas morning

There is major marketing potential,
"daddy i want a slayer for Christmas, please wont you buy me one"
"okay son, ill see what i can do."

A month passes and Christmas day arrives.

"Well son they'd sold out of slayers so i had to get you Neeber." Kid falls into tears.
"I would have accepted Irenicus, Neeber he's almost as bad as Noober".

(really have to have been to Trademeet in BG2 to appreciate this one, and a vague recollection of my favourite colour sprayer Noober.)

[This message has been edited by Mr Sleep (edited 11-03-2000).]

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 9:27 am

Wis 13 is the minimum requirement for getting the Spectator Beholder to leave. Interesting with the Wis 25. Maybe they coded it that way to nick people playing edited characters since the only way you can get there without editing is abusing the BG1 books.

Wis 21 is possible without abuse since there are actually 3 tomes of wisdom available in BG and TOTSC (but only 1 for the other stats). It requires doing a quest the hard way though. For a non-cleric/druid Wis 22 is actually possible with Hrothgar's Axe ... but how many non-clerics started with Wis 18 and made a point of getting every possible Tome?

[This message has been edited by Nighthawk (edited 11-03-2000).]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 9:56 am

They do seem wise to the fact people edited there characters to gigantic proportions. 25 everything etc.

[This message has been edited by Mr Sleep (edited 11-03-2000).]

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 5:12 pm

Eh ... guys, like I wrote, my priestess went through BG 1 for a total of THREE times ... once as protagonist, twice as 'just a party-member'. If you look carefully, you can also aquire THREE tomes of Wisdom in that game (TOSC included) - and that makes for a +9 to Wisdom in total. I, in no way, cheated that character!

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Nov 06, 2000 9:00 am

Going through the game and grabbing the tomes with the same character multiple times is akin to editing. This is what I meant by "abusing the books."

I did this with one character...6 times, skipping anything unneccesary that didn't get me tomes. Then when I was done I never did anything with the character and haven't bothered to import him to BG2.

You can play however you want to, but multiple uses of the tomes however you do it is basically editing.

[This message has been edited by Nighthawk (edited 11-06-2000).]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon Nov 06, 2000 9:41 am

Does anyone feel like commenting on my Interplay/marketing idea, or am i just condemned to being insane

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Mon Nov 06, 2000 11:00 am

I accidentally posted the next reply twice.This message can be deleted.

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 11-06-2000).]

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Mon Nov 06, 2000 11:00 am

It seems that Interplay is aware of this kind of "improved" stats.I have read somewhere that in the upcoming Neverwinter nights there are going to be two different online types of gaming

ne with players controlling characters with "normal" stats (the stats allowed in any new created character) and another one where players can play with any PCs they like,including this kind of "gods" (all stats above 20 etc)
The second kind of playing sounds to me like Diablo style:reach as high a level as you can.This doesn't sound like RPG,but as a game called "stats & level hunt".What are your thoughts about it?

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"ÃçñÜóêù áåß äéäáóêüìåíïò"

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 11-06-2000).]

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Nov 06, 2000 2:03 pm

I enjoy both playing styles, but there has to be some challenge to the 'stats and level hunt'. Getting all 25's even by going through the game multiple times was too easy...by the time I had gone through 6 times I was looking at an elf with 24/25/23/24/20/17. It made things completely uninteresting.

Not only does this make spells that are normally cool useless (Draw upon Holy Might), but all the characters look the same. When you can max out ALL your stats you don't have to think about give and take and getting around your character's weaknesses.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Mon Nov 06, 2000 4:52 pm

Well, I didn't go SO far ... since Wisdom is the absolute prime prerequisite for a Priest, and a priest gains most benefit from Tomes of Wisdom, it was 'naturally' that they ended up with my priestess during those game sessions.

At all three occasions, the party was composed of four self-made characters, and two NPC's. This meant that the Tomes that were found were given to the character that benefitted most of them - strength to fighters, intelligence to wizards, etc... - it wasn't so that only one character got ALL Tomes in any sessions.

To conclude, I can remark that besides Wisdom, her other stats aren't remarkable (well, Charisma maybe).

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:14 am

Take a step back and realize that your character has a wisdom or " insert stat " of a god and compare that to your quest and your level, and be your own dungeon master.

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:21 am

i have to add a further comment...

I am in SoA soon to go into ToB and I'm trying to import an Ammo Belt into SoA. I don't consider importing items cheating because not killing my self with inventory makes the games fun for me. Also having 2 strongholds makes the game fun for me, (there is WAYYYYY more for me to explore with little compensation). Be your own dungeon master, what is fun is fun ... as the game was intended by TRS.

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:25 am

Think about it, the highest you can naturally get is an 18. I would even say 18 in all is acceptable. But I draw the line at running through the game more than once to improve stats. Your party is supposed to be brand spanking new at the beginning, not some god-beings. I think it's unacceptable when stats start going over the 20 mark.

BG2/TOB is different, because so many things (hell, machines, dreams) are making you more than a demi-human, so I can understand that.

Play how you want, but I'll still call it cheating and/or editing.

BTW, the Beholder you see again in ToB, and it just gets funnier. With his first remark in ToB, I couldn't stop laughing...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 11:13 am

Originally posted by hermit6115:
<STRONG>Take a step back and realize that your character has a wisdom or " insert stat " of a god and compare that to your quest and your level, and be your own dungeon master.</STRONG>

Well, near-godlike stats do seem somewhat appropriate for a demi-god. You are the supreme Bhaalspawn, after all. Look at the stats the not-so-surpreme Bhaalspawn have. Imoen has very decent stats, Sarevok is almost off the chart.

The problem, of course, is that the game is not equipped to deal with such characters. But that's another point, IMHO.

nexus25 · Post by **nexus25** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 11:33 am

About that marketing strategy, that Beholder would be really cool indeed *wishful thinking* I guess