GameBanshee Forums

I posted this on the BG forum, but figure that it may be applicable here as well. Though just a bit different as you are more powerful and meet more powerful enemies.

I have not been able to find a thread or guide to that, so I thought I would start one. Though I do not know how many beginners are here. I do not know half the tricks of the game, but feel free to add your own. But let us keep it a beginner's guide, we can always make an advanced one in another thread.

First. Give all your characters a missile weapon, I prefer longbows and slings. When engaging enemies, shoot at them as they advance on you. Retreating and shooting is not a bad idea either. At start of the game I made a line of archers and slingers when getting to a new map and let my toughest (main) character explore it. Whenever he ran into something serious he shot at it, retreated, shot at it, retreated, etc to the line of archers and everyone shot at it. Many monsters never get to melee range that way. Especially if one is careful and only draw part of the enemy groups on. A combination of Two handed Sword, Longbow and some heavy armour (because you have no shield) is very effective. Though my favorite fighter use two katanas, which makes it a tad more complicated to change weapons but not impossible.

If you can afford it, go for poisoned arrows, shoot a couple of poisoned arrows until it takes effect, then change to normal (cheaper) ones and finish the job or just wait for the poison to kill them. It is hard for mages to cast spells when poisoned.

If you meet monsters that are dangerous in melee and almost impossible to kill before engaging the party, summon your own monsters to hold them back and soften them up while you pump arrows and magic into them.

When it gets to hand to hand I have the idea that it is often effective to concentrate on crushing one enemy flank- it is in real life, but I am not certain it makes a difference in BG, I always do it though, concentrate on one enemy on a flank while the rest of the party holds the others back. Then roll them up from the side...

Always keep weak characters such as mages and thieves in the back unless the thief is backstabbing, and let them support the meleers with missile fire or magic.

Always aim to take out enemy magic users first. Pump them full of missiles, preferably poisoned ones. That is faster than casting magic and often disturbs the casting or kills the baddie outright.

When resting outside it is often a good idea to have your magic user cast protection on him/her self so they are protected if enemies attack the camp.

It can sometimes be worthwhile having a thief with an invisibility potion backstab the real big bad and dangerous ones in melee.

Use party formations that protect the weakest members. I prefer the cirkle or wedge with the weakest character surrounded by the tougher ones.

When ambushed ("you have been waylaid by enemies etc"), IRL and in BG it works to concentrate on one side of the ambush to take out the attackers there, then get your wekest characters to the relative safety there when the baddies are taken out and kill the other attackers.

That is it for me.

After a couple of months of playing and hanging out on this board this thread will look quite silly to you Its naivety is almost cute.

Should that not be "naivity"?. Thank you for pointing it out though. Which is why it is called "Beginners' Tricks" and not "Advanced Strategy". As I said, there is no beginners' tricks threads anywhere and I think there should be. For though an advanced player has no such problems a beginner will get overwhelmed by the complexity of some of the tactical discussions here.
BTW, Amalienborg??

If you can afford it, go for poisoned arrows, shoot a couple of poisoned arrows until it takes effect, then change to normal (cheaper) ones and finish the job or just wait for the poison to kill them. It is hard for mages to cast spells when poisoned.

Nice ideas, but one of the problems encountered in applying the strategies of BG1 to BG2 is that the games offer different equipment early on, at different levels. Poison arrows make excellent sense during BG1, but one of the first missions you can accept in BG2 offers you fire and enchanted ammo, which you'll need to to succeed. Poison is really not of much use on ranged weapons in BG2.

melfs acid arrows than ?

[QUOTE=Edar Macilrille]Should that not be "naivity"?. Thank you for pointing it out though. Which is why it is called "Beginners' Tricks" and not "Advanced Strategy". As I said, there is no beginners' tricks threads anywhere and I think there should be. For though an advanced player has no such problems a beginner will get overwhelmed by the complexity of some of the tactical discussions here.
BTW, Amalienborg??[/QUOTE]

Firstly, excuse the spelling, and yes, I did mean naivety; my fingers slipped.

My comment was mostly based on the fact that as BG2 isn't at its core a 'fighting game' (as Diablo 2 is, for example), most of the battle tactics are incredibly simple even if counter-intuitive. It's as if you've played multiple battle-oriented games before and try to translate strategies you've used in them into BG2. The mere fact that you think in terms of strategies thwarts yours battles. This is nothing like an RTS, and the combat system is vastly different.

Many of the strategies you posted are terribly commonsensical (this word may or may not exist), almost bordering on 'no s---' but are not terribly useful in BG2.

I don't mean to be hostile, by the way. I'll even put a couple of smileys to convey a sense of fondness.


If you don't mind the spoilers, I'd recommend Sytze's Deathless Adventure (do a search - I'm too lazy to dig the link up). He plays with a couple of mods which make the game insanely difficult, and still manages to play a fair bit of the game before he dies thus terminating the thread. While he doesn't go into great detail of battle-tactics (IIRC), it's still an interesting read which will provide some insight into BG2 fighting.

And lastly, yes: Amalienborg. Actually, no - and I don't remember why I chose that as a location anymore; but it was probably because I couldn't think of anything witty at the time and then it just stuck.

Guys...

Let's not beat up on our new friend, he's trying to help.

Edar, I think the problem is largely that this is a bit of a hangout for veteran RPG-types. Your advice is good, but largely assumed as an input here, so you may feel a bit ignored, but it's ok

Good gaming to all!

PS - naievete, including variants with umlauts and accents are also legitimate alternatives, IIRC.

No pro, I am used to competing amongst armed men where you have to radiate strength and confidence, but still be polite.
Thus you will probably have no hostility from me, check http://www.ulfhednir.dk and http://Ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk.
I have been through 1½ BG II, and I have noticed the lack of tactics. But I refuse to belive that there is no applicable ones. There must be. We just need to suss them out. And they should be more advanced than running away to draw enemies to you and closing a door behind them so you can kill them without dealing with their allies. This must especially be true as those I posted works in BG. I have played no other computer games (except World in Flames and Steel Panthers, oh and CIV3 and EU2, BTW). But I have studied a lot of tactics and use them regularly in Viking fighting IRL. Better check the link though, I refuse to believe that there is no use for tactics...

I just wondered about Amalienborg (in case others wonder what it is it is the main residence of the Danish royal family, in Copenhagen).

The lack of tactical enviroment in BG II is due the fact the AI is still screwed. Accept it or not, but it can't be as realistic as any viking battle IRL (which i think is very cool, do you have a HLA like Warcry ). BG II is a game, just like any other pc-game.

What I'm getting out of this thread is the fact you would like BG II to be more realistic in battles than it is atm. This problem occurs in many ways when playing FPS games (I've played Mohaa and CoD excively, 3 years, clan xp, CPL etc, might sound unfamiliar with most of you but ) and also there the question rose shouldn't grenade implotions be more realistic, shouldn't reload times be far more longer, the fact you can lean while walking, do you ever see a soldier do that in combat?

The fact is, you must not forget this is a game, u shuld not spoil the gameplay by adding so much realistic features (in FPS terms, does not occur as mugh in RPG's ) that the game is less enjoyable (thinking of 360 headshots jumping of a 20 meter ladder ) but realistic?

This might, in a lesser way, also be the same story for BG II. I understand you are fed up with the fact drawing an enemy and closing the door behind his ass so you keep his allies away is unrealistic. And the pathfinding etc also sucks but a game cant be perfect. You cant have guerilla warstyle in BG, nor viking style )). I think, when you would like to dismiss these "of-ease" tactics, give yourself some restrictions, go in battle like a normal fighter whould do, in other words, dont exploit the AI to make the battle easier.

I might have completely missed the point here but this is just my part of the story

Regards

Combat in BGII has very little in common with real life, which makes applying real life tactics to it of limited value. I think the biggest difference (well ... with the possible exception of a stupid AI ) is that there's really no concept of 'facing'. This means it makes no difference whether you're attacking someone's front, side, or even back. The one exception is when you try to backstab, it must be against the back. (Note the emphasis on you - the computer has no such restriction).

I'd say that one difference alone renders most real tactics meaningless - attacking a flank, driving a wedge, forming a wall, ... it simply doesn't mean anything in BGII.

It's much more important to have a mage in your party in BG2, and this in itself, along with the higher power level changes tactics considerably.

[QUOTE=nephtu]Let's not beat up on our new friend, he's trying to help. [/QUOTE]

Oi!
I was by no means trying to 'beat up' Edar or make him feel unwelcomed. I just thought the thread was amusing - a breath of fresh air, if you will.

[quote="Edar Macilrille]
I have been through 1½ BG II"]
Sure there are, but they have nothing to do with tactics you would use in real life. A tactic oft used in the BG2 is, for example, sending a cloudkill spell into enemies that are out of your sight (in the fog of war). Since they won't see you they won't engage you in combat, but since they're within the radius of the cloudkill they will take damage. Until they die. Takes the fun out of the game, yes, but makes quick work out of pesky dragons and such

I guess that is the famous "How to Kill Firkaag tactic" , go out of reach with wand of cloudkills or how many could kill spells u have, cast em run away cast new, etc etc

Ever heard of the protection from magic scroll tactic. He wont be able to use magic .

Or the feeblemind tactic, draining intelligence to 3 easy work

[QUOTE=ensaro dai]I guess that is the famous "How to Kill Firkaag tactic" , go out of reach with wand of cloudkills or how many could kill spells u have, cast em run away cast new, etc etc
[/QUOTE]

But that's not a legit tactic; it's cheese, outrageous things that simply shouldn't logically work in the RPG world, and do only because of deficiencies in coding. By contrast, placing mages behind your front line may be hackneyed advice, but it's also sensible.

Well, I remember the most spectacular way to defeat him was with my uber archer. I had the boots of speed, 100% fire resistance and immunity to fear and killed the bastard on my own. Ran around like a rabbit loosing shots when i could (arrows of piercing). Must have been luck really, but im still proud of it

The one I remember most I had a five-member party, including a Berserker. Killed Firkragg without losing anyone (and without using cheese) ... but my Berserker was down to a couple hitpoints, and anyone who could heal was incapacitated ... all I could do was sit there and watch while his Berserk wore off and he died!

What tactics (excluding cheese) exist in BGII generally boil down to learning the different spells, and when to use them.

how about a mage with a contingency type spell(can't remember the exact names, it's been so many years..) that has 3 lower magic res. spells. then cast feeblemind on the target with another mage as soon as the spells hit. that's the easiest non-cheese(IMO) way to kill a dragon..

spell trigger is the spell you're looking for.

and it's better to have 2 lower resistances and a greater malison

You'd need Chain Contingency (L9) ir Spell Trigger (L8) to put three LRs in. My preferred method uses three mages with, for each one, three Magic Missiles in a Spell Sequencer. Nine Magic Missiles from mages L12+ will kill Firkraag if his resistance is sufficiently lowered. Hit him with 3x Lower Resistance simultaneously, followed by the Sequenced MMs. The other characters are there to keep Firkraag from frying the mages.

[QUOTE=Ieldra]You'd need Chain Contingency (L9) ir Spell Trigger (L8) to put three LRs in. My preferred method uses three mages with, for each one, three Magic Missiles in a Spell Sequencer. Nine Magic Missiles from mages L12+ will kill Firkraag if his resistance is sufficiently lowered. Hit him with 3x Lower Resistance simultaneously, followed by the Sequenced MMs. The other characters are there to keep Firkraag from frying the mages.[/QUOTE]

Thats the only one I've ever known (except I did discover I could be greater hasted with invis potions and quickly lower resist, then invis and use ice shower on him.. liek the cloud kill scam) but anyway, I loved the 3 lower resist followed by pure magic missile, its great