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****, just hit back and cancelled what I typed!!

Arh, anyway, I just ordered BG2 ( because I lost my old cd 2-3 + tob) so now its comming in on friday or monday (hopefully friday, realisticly monday) but anyway.

My protagonist should be either an Archer/Conjurer(or Sorcerrer), a Kensai/Conjurer (yes I realise these 2 classes cannot work, however I will SK in the Kensai/Archer abilities when I dual to a conjurer) Also, I'm guessing level 13 will be appropriate (cap will be removed and I will have ToB) for my DC. Also my 3rd possibility will be a Blade (however I think the first 2 options are more likely) I will be editing my character Laure Eldwhen who I just finished BG-TOSC with (she's a Fighter dualed to Conjurer, so I feel a archer/kensai conjurer would be best).

Now for my party, I need help, I'm sure on Haer'Dalis. I've never used him, but I know love blades.

I'm gonna mod up too. I'm gonna install all the character mods, and I'm willing to use them if there recommended. I don't want solufien or anyone else who is overpowered like him.

So guys help me, pick out the good, NON overpowered mods, the extended quest ones, the better (but fair) item mods.

I am quite interested in using a character like Nalia, Mazzy, Jahera, Valygar, Anomen and viconia. As I have never used them, and I dislike them, but they will grow on me!

However, I would like to modify characters, for example misnc clearly fits a beserker kit, so I would (if I was willing to use him) make him a beserker. So any tips on a nice party.

On average I use atleast 2-3 mages and never really more than 1 cleric.

Also, when giving mod tips, could you order them, I want things like Ascension,tactics, improved Illycht (but for everyone) I also want you guys to help me order them.

Oh, one more thing, I really don't want to play with : Soluofien, Aerie, Edwin, Imoen, Minsc, Jan, Yoshimo, also I don't really want to play with Korgan. These characters I feel are either too familiar to me, or I despise them.


I realise this is a tall order, but I would love your guys help, however if possible try not to just discuss and argue with each other over how good you feel certain characters are, just please give me tips and links and idea's on parties.

Thanks alot you guys rock

Oh, and one more thing, please give me tips on what proficiencies to go for. I would like to stop using the good old Corysmor etc, maybe the odd character using a spear or a different set of swords.

The problem is, if you're going Kensai ANYTHING, you're going to use swords ... right? Well anyway, you could try out dual wielding Katanas. There are two very excellent ones in the game: Celestial Fury and Dak'kon's Zerth Blade. CF is pretty famous and well-documented, D's ZB is available if you have the Collector's Edition (I think, or maybe it's the other edition), still you can download it for free (and legally!). I don't know where though.

(In case you're wondering and don't know, D's ZB is a light poke to fans of the company that made BGII; Dak'kon was a character in another game, namely Planescape: Torment. In fact, the person who sells you the blade is carrying a ton of gear "from" PS:T like Vahilor's Helm...

Dak'kon's blade's got some really nice stats for fighter/mages, stats like +1 AC, extra first, and second, not sure about third, level spells, etc. I'm not 100% remembering what exactly it offered but it's almost perfect for a Kensai Mage of any kind...)

As for mods, well, I can't really offer anything. The banter packs are fun, and add a lot to the game. Many NPC packs are great, such as THE original: Goo, the floating eyeball! There's also Kesley, for a well-documented NPC sorcerer that a female PC can romance instead of that annoying Anomen.

if you're going to have the uberpowerful kensai/anything combination and use NPC mods like sola, valen, chloe and even kelsey, may i suggest tactics?

Hmm..

Well, to start with the last, a Kensai or Archer won't be using Carsomyr. If you want to get out of the weapons cliches, you can get the Underrepresented weapons mods - some nice choices there, but fairly cheesy.

Anyway, I'm a little confused, you want a Conjuror/(Kensai or Archer) main and don't want overpowered characters *boggle* - well, a couple of fairly balanced NPCs are Chloe, human Kensai, and Kelsey, human Sorceror.

As to your party, you're not showing any rogue options - may be a problem. Also, you've eliminated all the mages except that whiny twit Nalia. I guess you could make Viconia a Cleric mage - Aerie without the whine. If you want a dynamite arcane MOD NPC combo, get Tashia and Kelsey, and watch the nukage.

Weapons choice- well, your Kensai-Archer has some fairly broad choices, you may want to pick the rest of the party first.

Mods, follow any of the 9 billion MOD threads here for choices. Order is:
Official patch
Baldurdash
any WeiDu mods
Non-WeiDu mods should be handled with care, may have compatibility issues, and usually need to be installed last.

Good gaming!

Thanks.

I remember Darkkon from my PS days, I remember I only had like 4 (not including nameless) characters. Yeah his sword was the ****. I will definately use it. However theres still the archer or blade possibility, but yes, dual wield (unless I use spear or halberd) for kensai.

But yes, I do wish to use tactics. I need a fair team though, so no Soloufien with what i hear he has infinate DD and some crazy full hear+sunflair attack. so he won't be used.

I think Kelsey sounds quite good for my character, also I am interested in this thief mage vampire, she sounds good, I hope she isn't over powered though.

Also, I'm not sure on using swords for the kensia, although using darkons sword would be wonderfull. I was thinking about flails and maces, although not enough proficiencie points to successfully do thing I think.

But yeah, mod me up! (as long as it makes it harder, yet do able. and not too ridiculous)


"I'm a little confused, you want a Conjuror/(Kensai or Archer) main and don't want overpowered characters"

Heh, well I don't want characters like Solofien who has spells that just kill everyone with complete ease. I don't think Kensai/Conjurers are too herendously over powered. But nevermind that.

Tashia and Kelsey and possibly vampire chick would be nice, however I wanna see there abilities, I don't want it to be a walk in the park, but tactics should sort that.

Now I know the order, I just need to figure out what ones are really worth it. Hard fights, something new, not cheesy, good dialogue, and nice options.

[QUOTE=me0w]Thanks.


I think Kelsey sounds quite good for my character, also I am interested in this thief mage vampire, she sounds good, I hope she isn't over powered though.

.....

Tashia and Kelsey and possibly vampire chick would be nice, however I wanna see there abilities, I don't want it to be a walk in the park, but tactics should sort that.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, Valen (the 'vampire chick') is possibly the most overpowered NPC in existence As long as you don't run around in full sunlight or start turning undead near her she can kill almost anything by herself.

A Kensai/Mage is most powerful (IMHO) weilding the Staff of the Magi. With ***** in Quarterstaff and ** in Two Handed Weapon style (and 13 levels of Kensai), this character will wipe the floor clean!


IMHO, sticking additional proficiencies in either Axe or Dagger is your best bet, since a Kensai can equip these and there are throwing versions in case you need to make a ranged attack.

[QUOTE=me0w]-SNIP-
But yes, I do wish to use tactics. I need a fair team though, so no Soloufien with what i hear he has infinate DD and some crazy full hear+sunflair attack. so he won't be used.

-SNIP-
Heh, well I don't want characters like Solofien who has spells that just kill everyone with complete ease. I don't think Kensai/Conjurers are too herendously over powered. But nevermind that.

-SNIP-
[/QUOTE]
I think you're under a misapprehension about Solaufein's degree of cheese. He has a cool Moonray attack OR a rather nice sword, though not normally both, and that slick Dimension Door ability, but he also comes with an awesomely good fight (the Eclipse party) , and a few other fun surprises - though joining him and Tashia can make the eclipse fight much easier Frankly I'd say Tashia is cheesier than Sola, if only because she's a sorceror, an intrinsically cheesy class.

You probably want tactics, maybe spell-50,

Hmm, so perhaps the vampire is off limits then.


I don't want to use spell-50 I think (from what I've read) it really changes magery too drasticly, over powering them, possibilities of 50d6 fireballs is just too ridiculous. Even though I would be more likely getting 15d6 or so, it still seems too much.

"IMHO, sticking additional proficiencies in either Axe or Dagger is your best bet, since a Kensai can equip these and there are throwing versions in case you need to make a ranged attack."

I'd prefer not to do that, I like doing melee and magic more than ranged unless really specialised ranged character.

I'm still not sure on soloufien, even if he is very fun, if he is too powerfull, I could image myself finding it hard to not use his cheesy abilities in fights where I'm about to lose, and I think that would take from the game. (I have weak self control for these things)

But Taisha and Kesley don't seem too bad. They're only "overpowered" do to there classes, but not actually crazy inate abilities. (I hope I'm right about that)

So who could I use as a thief? Nalia? at levl4? - I have done things like that before, just rellying on everyone perception+theivery pots, however I would like to one day use traps. Would be interesting (in a non cheese way)

so far I guess its (possibly) Jahera, Kesley, Haer'Dalis, Taisha. so really I only have one more slot, however that party would be far too warrior centered for me.

Whats "Chloe" like, I hear alot of mention to her, she's a sorcerer right? I could always put her in, remove Jahera and use Nalia as a thief, or perhaps someone else. Oww the trouble of BG.

I think It'll be monday before I get to see it, unless the postman is late!

but thanks guys. Oh and apart from tactics, and maybe ascension depending on how good it is, what other good mods are there?

Chloe is a kensai, Tashia and Kelsey are both sorcerors ... so if you want a challenging game two sorcerors are not exactly what you're looking for

Chloe is probably a bit more powerful than your 'average NPC', but I'd say she's on par with Edwin or Korgan. As I said she's a Kensai, has very high Dex (25), but low Str (13) and cant't be dual classed (the mod prevents this). She comes with two custom weapons (a short sword and a scimitar which she dual wields) that can be upgraded once. The weapons are fairly powerful at the start of the game, but nothing compared to Celestial Fury or Carsomyr, don't worry
Also note that you absolutely need to have Imoen in your party or Chloe will leave sooner or later. She will either romance your PC (if your are human,elf or half-elf and female), or Imoen.

ok my input here,

As i remember you posting a reply on the solaufein thread (never used him you siad), you should really try it.

Solfein has a few flaws as his constituion being 10 (if im not mistaking), you could let him wear the girlde of fortitude (18 con 8 hours, usable once a day). As for his moonray and repulse undead, these abilities are given when you confirm his dailogues in a emphatistical way. However, this might mean quests like Eclipse and the battle against Archryssa might nbot occur (I don;t know for sure tho). Eclipse gives you to uber swords and Archryssa, well its a hell of a battle (1on1 + revenge spider).

If you choose to dismiss his dialogues he wont have moonray, which is too uber imo, thats why i never use itin combat (only for a quick party healing ability when wandering streets, so idont have to rest).

However, solaufein proofs to be a great NPC (you will love him for role-playing abilities, his dialogues are great), tho if you use him, make sure you put difficulty level to either Hard or Insane (I've got hard now, will do Insane later).

As you don't want to use Jaheira (nor Anomen, he's such a ****) try Cernd for the difference, hes quite underrated by many people, use him the right way and he'll prove his worth.

As for your thiefing problem, you might want to use Valen, but she is even MORE boosted than Solaufein so I wouldn't take here if I were you.. try to find any other mod NPC's with thiefing abilities (I thought there was a good Coran fighter/thief somehwere, i'm sure you will like his uber archer skills and besides that being a great thief).

As for your choise to make a change of weapon use (I understand you dont want to use Carsomyr , pali's suck anyway ) you could either SK some characters or make your char your main "underrated" weapon user. If im not mistaking, kensai's can also use helbards/spears etc. etc.)

Might want a change for edwin i found this mod, never tried it:
http://www.gilalion.com/tsujatha


That's it for now, have fun

PS: Good mod (not making the game any harder tho) is unfinished business, giving cut off quests a good and interesting ending-> like Rune Rogue's etc.)

Have fun!

Your play style seems compatible to my own. here's then, the party I'd select for you:

You: Archer/Mage
Nalia (changed as described below)
Valygar (changed as described below)
Viconia
Tashia
Cernd (with Refinements' Shapeshifter Rebalancing and G3Tweaks' Druids Use Clerics' Level and Spell Progression installed)

Comments:
Yes, there are two priests, but as your fighter choices are so limited by your blacklist, Cernd is a good alternative. As a Greater Werewolf he is an excellent fighter, and his Druid spells are also extremely useful.

Comments about characters:

The protagonist: Generic Archer/Mage, dualled at level 9. As you prefer melee, you might want to consider a Kensai/Mage, but let me tell you: characters who can't use *any* ranged weapon suck. Even if only as a secondary weapon, there are situations where you won't want melee, especially if you play with mages. I'd rather use a straight Fighter/Mage than a Kensai/Mage. Also, extremely low THAC0 isn't that important later in the game, except for a few select encounters.

The scout: I changed Nalia into a Swashbuckler/Mage dualled at L10, so she has enough Thief skills to be useful.

The priests:
Lots of choices, even considering your blacklist: If you don't use Clerix Remix, there's no question that Viconia is the best choice for primary Cleric. She can control undead, giving you lots of allies in many dangerous places, and she's resistant to magic. Give her the Gauntlets of Ogre Power so that she can wear full plate, and the CON-enhancing Girdle (forgot the name), and she becomes a good tank as well.
If you install Cleric Remix, things become a lot less clear, for Viconia loses a lot of the buffing spells like Chaotic Commands and Defensive Harmony, and the better healing spells like Greater Restoration and Heal. So you might consider Anomen, who, with the Gauntlets of DEX also becomes a good tank.
With Shapeshifter Rebalancing (either of the two versions) you might also consider Cernd. Some Druid spells are too useful to let them go if you have a slot free. I wouldn't recommend Jaheira, she levels up too slowly as a Druid.

The mages:
This party already has two, that leaves one slot which I would fill with a Sorcerer. Kelsey has a lot of content, but I recommend Tashia. I like her content more even though it's not as extensive as Kelsey's. Your choice may depend on wether your protagonist is male or female.
In my current party, I play with the Tsujatha mod. Tsujatha's a necromancer with great personality and a well-written romance, one of the most believable mod NPCs IMO. Since he's almost two levels ahead of everyone else I am quite content to have him even apart from romantic considerations, and he has a ring that gives him additional spell slots. I think he's better than Edwin, and having L7 spells early is nice. Also, if your protagonist is female, he is, in my not at all humble opinion, the much better romance. And he is very well voiced.
But, for pure gameplay considerations, I'd stick to a sorcerer.

The fighter:
Lots of choices here, were it not for your blacklist. Of the original NPCs, you're pretty much stuck with Valygar. He is a very good choice, but I usually change his weapon proficiencies so that he can uses axes and hammers.
If you want more than one fighter, and not Mincs nor Korgan, then there are only mods: Solaufein is on the blacklist, that leaves Chloe. I like her, but as I said, characters with no ranged proficiencies suck.

MODS:

Here's my current mod order that works well so far. If I have skipped compoents, that was either because I didn't like them, other mods did the same better, or there were incompatibilities or error messages when installing theml. I experimented for almost a week to get this to install without error messages and run without crashes. My first try had a few more mods that I was forced to skip:

(1) Ease-of-Use
Components 0-6, 9-10, 15, 18, 20-21
Skip the faster cutscenes, it's incompatible with Tashia and a few other mods.
Skip Multi-romance and multi-stronghold components, they may cause problems.
Skip No Traps and Locks, the game loses a lot that way.
Skip Bottomless Bag of Holding, use G3Tweaks' Bottomless containers instead.
(2) G3 Tweak Pack
Components 0-2, 4, 10, 12-13, 15-16, 21-23
(3) SimDing0's Tweak Pack
Components 0-4, 7-8, 10
(4) Oversight
Components 0-4
Skip the altered Monk HLA tables - Refinements does it better.
(5) Cleric Remix
Components 0, 3-4
See my remarks about Viconia above. You might want to skip this altogether
(6) Dark Ritual
Components 0-2
(7) Revised Forgotten Wars Item Pack
Most of these items are grossly overpowered. I haven't used any of them yet.
(8) Underrepresented Items
(9) Ascension
All components. Install this before Kelsey if you use him. He has Ascension-specific dialogue
(10) Tashia
(11) Kelsey SOA
(12) Kelsey TOB
(13) Tsujatha
(14) Chloe
(15) Rogue Rebalancing
All components
(16) PnP Celestials
(17) Unfinished Business
All components except the kits. I have grown wary of what new kits can do to the game, so I only install what I need, even though it's a hassle to answer 22 times yes and 2 times no.
(18) SimDing0's Quest Pack
Components 0-2, 4
(19) Rahul Kanakia's Potion Quest
(20) Planar Sphere Return
(21) Improved Oasis 2
Both components
(22) Improved Battles
Components 2-14, 16-18, 24
(23) Tactics
Components 1-3, 6-15, 17-25, 28-29, 31-35
Plus the Generic Archer kit which is one of the skipped numbers.
(24) Pocket Plane Banter Pack
Components 0, 2 (no accelerator, I don't play fast)
(25) TOB Refinements
Components 0-3
Again, everything except the kit.

So much for my extensive NPC and Mod recommendations. I hope it helps.

Well thanks to you all, especially Iedra for your extensive contributions.


I don't really want to play with Cernd.

"As you don't want to use Jaheira (nor Anomen...)"

I'm quite content on using those two characters, heh, must have misread my posts.

"Chloe is a kensai, Tashia and Kelsey are both sorcerors ... so if you want a challenging game two sorcerors are not exactly what you're looking for"

If they really are too good, I could SK one of them down to Conjurer or Illusionist.



Ok so :

You: Archer/Mage
Nalia (changed as described below)
Valygar (changed as described below)
Viconia
Tashia
Cernd

Sounds good, however, is a Swashbuckler a good enough thief, (I don't understand what one actually is - apart from being a thief kit)

So the red guys, I think there definately in there for the team, however you didn't mention what changes it would be worth making to Valygar.

Maybe instead of Cernd I could have Jahera (or anyone else I mentioned as being fairly new to me) - although as you said, not really worth it, but maybe I don't want a druid.
Infact, I also want to play with Haer'Dalis. So maybe I could fit him in somewhre. - he could replace Cernd.

"Also note that you absolutely need to have Imoen in your party or Chloe will leave sooner or later. She will either romance your PC (if your are human,elf or half-elf and female), or Imoen."

So I guess no chloe, as Imoen is a no no for me. thats a real shame as she sounds neat.

Also my protagonist is femail.

So really its gonna be final slot as a sorcerer, either Taisha or Kesly, and I'm female. so it kinda forces me to get kelsy, however I'm not certain on him.

So the way its going now is:

You: [Archer/Kensai]/Conjurer - levl 9-13 on the fighter side.
Nalia (as changed)
Valygar (how changed?)
Haer'Dalis
Tashia/Kelsy/Turj (elf guy...)
Anomen/Jahera?

Ok, so that sounds dandy, but I'm really not sure on this.

2-3 changes will have to be made, as this is FAR too mage orientated.

It just wouldn't work, ME, NALIA, Haer', Tashia - All mages. Thats too much, even for me. And you guys are sure I need to have Imoen to keep Chloe - pooie!

However, if I'm a kensai, that leaves ME, Haer', Valygar and Anomen as tanks, which isn't too bad, pretty effective I think.

But I would like a tankish NPC, I'd think of Jahera for this, but I'm not sure for her.

So guys, this is going well, I'm liking my team more and more. Just with a little bit more help I'll be perfect.

Thanks again, and maybe a few more mod tips. Thanks!

Hehe well, my input sucked as usual can't even read the lines the right way (jaheira ).

However if you want a quick peak at Tsujatha, check this website here , it gives some background information about the guy. He's quite a change for edwin .

/
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 19
WIS 16
CHA 14 AGE: 141
AL: NE
RACE: Elf
CLASS: Necromancer
LEVEL: 13
HP: 43
/

Maybe me0w could give me some info about haer`dalis, as I am planning to play with that guy too (he's a blade but for the rest I only know he likes to shag Aerie )

And to Ieldra, great input (maybe you could do the same to my thread :$), the girlde u mentioned is the girlde of fortitude, found on Gaal at the Cult of the unseeing eye. As for the Tsujatha mod, he seems to be a edwin-clone, how does he play?

Gl me0w

All right, some more details:

Nalia: the changes to her, I think, are clear enough. You asked about Swashbucklers: Swashbucklers are better fighters than true-class Thieves. They can put three stars in dual-wield, specialize in any weapon usable by Thieves, and get +1 AC and +1 THAC0 per five levels. But they cannot backstab. Since I never use backstabs, this fits my play style perfectly. So Nalia has +2 to AC (great!) and THAC0 (not *that* useful, but good nonetheless, since she uses a bow when she's not casting spells) compared with the original version.

Valygar: I changed only his weapon proficiencies. No spears. Instead axes (Stonefire, Azuredge) and hammers (Crom Faeyr). Keep the katana (Celestial Fury) and the bow. If you install the multi-class grandmastery patch (Ease-of-Use): you won't have enough points to put three or more stars in everything, so you must make a hard choice. Spears are great once you get Ixil's Spike, but that's a long way to go, and spears up to that point suck. So skip them.

Third mage slot: You probably already know this, but of course you *can* take Tashia even if you're female. Only the romance won't work. As I said, Tsujatha is a better romance than Kelsey, who's too much of a "college boy" for my taste. Of course it's a matter of taste...

Anomen/Jaheira: Jaheira is not a good choice for the primary priest slot, although she's good enough as both a melee fighter and a secondary priest. Anomen is good as a tank only with Gauntlets of Dexterity (normal DEX 10), but an excellent primary priest.

Haer'Dalis: It may be me, but I really don't understand why you'd want him. I tried him once - he is annoying as well as incompetent.
You should re-consider Cernd, he's the undeserved whipping-boy for too many people here, and I think they're prejudiced. I rather like him (maybe for exactly that reason), although his Druid attitude can get on one's nerves at times.

Party composition in general: Within SOA, you really don't need three fighter types. I have frequently played with only one, mostly with two. In TOB it's different, but at that time you can switch someone for Sarevok, who's better than anyone else as a fighter (except Solaufein and maybe Chloe, but these are on the no-no list).

@endaro_sai:

Tsujatha isn't an Edwin clone except that he's a specialist mage with additional spell slots granted by an item. For one, he's not nearly as evil as Edwin. I would contest he deserves the evil alignment his creator has given him - he does some evil things, but in general he has too much empathy to be considered evil as a whole. He's the kind of character who's completely loyal and considerate to his friends and family, but doesn't hesitate to do anything he feels necessary to his enemies. He's a deeper character than most, and you always feel the weight of his story, parts of which he comes to tell you if you romance him. And, oh yes, this mod has its erotic moments - more intense than any other romance mod, I'd say.

About your thread: you're speaking of your "starting all over"-thread, yes? Well, I'll have a look. But I couldn't say much more on mod order I haven't already said here...

What about the impaler? +10 peircing damage is not that bad imo?

"give me some info about haer`dalis, as I am planning to play with that guy too"

Well, the first time I played SoA, I just got angry at him and kicked him, also my simple realising he was a bard, therefore he was quickly dismissed.

Second time playing, I again added him, he started to anger me with this stuff about arie, and his personality could be seen as poor.

Third play at the game, I didn't even let him join.

However, I recently started solo'ing as a blade, and boy is it a fun character, charging about with melfs minute meteors, I had a ball. Due to amazing fun I had with the blade, I decided I would want one on my team, therefore he will be incorporated, I'm sure I'll start to like him soon, instead of simply tolerating him.

Ok and one last thing : Tsujatha it says only romances neutral - good characters, I'm Chaotic Evil ( although I guess I could change her to Chaotic Neutral )

But will it really stop the romance?

Also, when Amonem becomes a paladin what happens to his cleric spells, how does this change him?

Anomen/Jaheira: Jaheira is not a good choice for the primary priest slot, although she's good enough as both a melee fighter and a secondary priest. Anomen is good as a tank only with Gauntlets of Dexterity (normal DEX 10), but an excellent primary priest.

Unless you're playing one of the mods that puts the enemy AI on steroids, choosing Jaheira as your primary priest adds a degree of useful challenge to the game. The same applies to Mazzy as your primary tank.

[QUOTE=me0w]Also, when Amonem becomes a paladin what happens to his cleric spells, how does this change him?[/QUOTE]

he becomes a member of the order of the radiant heart and a paladin persay, but his class does not change, he is still a warrior priest of helm, if a tad irritating.

and mazzy makes one heck of a tank. if you consider that most fighters get strength enhancing items as a matter of course from players, mazzy plus a strength enhancing item, plus a proficiency point in a decent weapon kicks butt. her high dex gives hr an advantage over both korgan and keldorn