GameBanshee Forums

Hi people, jus curious on what clans are best at what... I wanted to play this game a few times over... and my 1st 3 times through I was gonna make 3 types of Vampire, one who is specialized in melee, another in ranged, and the 3rd in hand to hand. I was just hoping someone knew off the top of thier head what my best choices would be for each type of combat. Thanks ahead of time for any opinions or feedback!

I'd say Brujah for melee and hand to hand and probably Toreador for ranged, probably Nosferatu for either melee or hand to hand for variety, everyone likes Potence

Brujah, Brujah, and, Toreador

Brujah are the baddest bad asses there are, Gangrel can suck wolf claws. Potence and celertiy backed up with presence and a fire axe take apart anything that moves. Also Brujah get +1 brawl that means they can get a brawl total/feat higher then anyone else... combined with potence this outshines wolf claws hands down. Claws would only be better against an opponent with fortitude and heavy armor.

Toreador are the ultimate ranged attacker. Auspex adds to perception, celerity lets you dodge bullets and reload at a better rate, and presence at higher levels decreases opponents perception, wits, and defense. Only Malkavian can compete with toreador in ranged, and that's due to Obfuscate surprise attacks.

Awsome, that gives me a good ground to start on, thanks for your time guys, nice feedback!

If you plan on going trough the game 3times, why not make 1 character thats good in fighting, 1 that has hihg social skills, and 1 that has high sneaking/lockpicking/hacking skills.

There is (alot) more to this game then combat!

Hell, I may do that too I just want to end up with some gimped fighter, and though I may try talking my way through the game at some point, right now I'm having too much fun beatin and blastin

[QUOTE=Stilgar]If you plan on going trough the game 3times, why not make 1 character thats good in fighting, 1 that has hihg social skills, and 1 that has high sneaking/lockpicking/hacking skills.

There is (alot) more to this game then combat![/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, by the end game, a character who has neglected his combat skills and/or disciplines will find himself completely unable to finish. The Inquisition and the Hallowbrook Hotel areas are pure combat, no other options, and not easy even if you've got high combat skills. This is not Fallout, nor even Arcanum: while many side quests have nothing to do with combat, the main quest very much does and is unavoidable.

The most important non-combat skills are lockpicking and computers, with persuade coming a distant third (and entirely skippable if you're a Ventrue who develops Dominate, or a Malkavian with Dementation). Seduction is only useful for romancing a handful of characters in the entire game, including the blood dolls at the bars, and only one of these NPCs offers any real incentive to seduce her (a poster, for your haven). Sneaking can be handy if you lack obfuscate, but is entirely useless if you do. Inspect is handy, but negligibly useless. Research is nice in the beginning, but not worth it by the end -- any high end books you find will either be below your skill levels and therefore unusable, or require an 8+ research skill. Intimidate is entirely useless, used in only a handful of dialogues even at high level, and all of these have alternate ways of being handled. Finance/Haggle are a virtual requirement if you need to buy a lot of ammo, but a melee type will find far more cash then needed even with a haggle score of 1.

[QUOTE=moonbiscuit]
Brujah are the baddest bad asses there are, Gangrel can suck wolf claws. Potence and celertiy backed up with presence and a fire axe take apart anything that moves. Also Brujah get +1 brawl that means they can get a brawl total/feat higher then anyone else... combined with potence this outshines wolf claws hands down. Claws would only be better against an opponent with fortitude and heavy armor. [/QUOTE]

Gangrel completely outshine brujah in brawl. Utterly. Why? Because the claws do aggravated damage, while brujah fists only do bashing. Every vampire in the game has significant ability to soak bashing damage, meaning that even though your brujah will do +5 damage because of maxed potence, the base damage of their attack will be lowered a good deal, to the point of negating that advantage.

The gangrel on the other hand with Protean 5 will have a higher base damage, will do all aggravated damage which is soaked much less ably by the hordes of vampires you'll eventually be fighting, will have a +2 bonus to strength (thus increasing the brawling feat, and bringing it to only 3 points shy of what's possible with maxed potence), raised defense (from +1 to wits) and increased ability to soak damage (+2 stamina)

Edit to add: Also, you talk about using the fire axe. Melee weapons of course don't draw on the brawl skill at all. I'd agree that brujah are the best with melee, but that's a seperate issue then unarmed.

[QUOTE=cjdevito]Gangrel completely outshine brujah in brawl. Utterly. Why? Because the claws do aggravated damage, while brujah fists only do bashing. Every vampire in the game has significant ability to soak bashing damage, meaning that even though your brujah will do +5 damage because of maxed potence, the base damage of their attack will be lowered a good deal, to the point of negating that advantage.
[/QUOTE]
I must admit this is probably true....although in a straight up fight it is unlikely the gangrel would get any hits in against advanced celerity. The fact that fists do bashing means their damage is halved almost certainly dropping it below the gangrel with claws, I would argue the celerity tips it though, especially as it is infinitely useful for other purposes as well.....Melee Brujah is the way to go.

Also on a side note: All guns do bashing damage against other kindred. So if you're gonna fight kindred. Dont bother with th pop guns. Get something that does Lethal or Aggravated damage.

[QUOTE=RWStagg]I must admit this is probably true....although in a straight up fight it is unlikely the gangrel would get any hits in against advanced celerity. The fact that fists do bashing means their damage is halved almost certainly dropping it below the gangrel with claws, I would argue the celerity tips it though, especially as it is infinitely useful for other purposes as well.....Melee Brujah is the way to go.[/QUOTE]

Considering I'm playing a melee -malkavian- who has NO potence, protean or celerity and don't have the slightest issue with celerity using opponents, I think I can safely say that celerity on an opponent won't matter a hill of beans.

[QUOTE=cjdevito]Considering I'm playing a melee -malkavian- who has NO potence, protean or celerity and don't have the slightest issue with celerity using opponents, I think I can safely say that celerity on an opponent won't matter a hill of beans.[/QUOTE]

Alas yes, they would indeed appear to be entirely incompetant, how someone moving up to 5 times faster than you and most probably wielding a gun can actually get hit by someone using a sword is quite beyond me....

I am going through the game for the first time as a Tremere and I am surprised at how much I use sneaking and Dominate. Trance and Suicide are amazingly powerful. NPCs (humans) do NOT know you cast them (hence the not breaking Masquerade thing) and they either go ga-ga or drop dead. I have not found an area of humans that I could not sneak, trance, and suicide my way through without a scratch. Trance coupled with insta-kill or feeding, supplies all the blood you need for the suicides.

For bosses, the Blood magic works almost too well. Blood strike can be cast as quick as you can click the mouse button and if you stand still for a second, you'll get back at least 50% of the blood you just spent (for most bosses). Additionally, a couple of the fetishes I have increase the damage to 138% (if I remember correctly), so I'm hitting even harder than normal. I just stock up on a couple of blood bags and knock down most anyone pretty handily.

For kicks, Purge is fun watching all the ignorant Kine vomit up half their life. Good crowd control for combat zones with humans as well.

Whenever I need to break out a weapon, I usually opt for the melee type, because I think it's more fun.

[QUOTE=tank29]I am going through the game for the first time as a Tremere and I am surprised at how much I use sneaking and Dominate. Trance and Suicide are amazingly powerful. NPCs (humans) do NOT know you cast them (hence the not breaking Masquerade thing) and they either go ga-ga or drop dead. I have not found an area of humans that I could not sneak, trance, and suicide my way through without a scratch. Trance coupled with insta-kill or feeding, supplies all the blood you need for the suicides.
[/QUOTE]

Malks with dementation get a similiar game play experience. Delirium, vision of death, berserk and bedlam are all amazingly useful in combat. Both dominate and dementation suffer a lot once your opponents cease in general to be human, though.

And yeah, sneaking/obfuscate is another absolute winner once you build either to high levels. I prefer obfuscate because I like not having to crouch, but either works. Honestly, I'm not sure how I would have gotten my malk through the fight with Bach without obfuscate 5. Both obfuscate and sneaking become a lot less useful once your opponents are regularly using auspex or gleam of the red eyes, though.

The first time I've played I had a melee-based Gangrel. Wasn't easy at all! The only discipline that helped in melee was Fortitude. I guess a much better fighting approach for a gangrel would be maxing out Protean and Unarmed for close combat, using Animalism for long-range. A Gangrel should fight as a Gangrel! Waving a sword near the bosses, protected only by Fortitude wasn't quite pleasant Normal enemies were not so much of a problem, and especially later in game I was using Animalism for ranged combat instead of firearms.

This time I'm playing as Brujah, based on Unarmed. Awesome fighter! I haven't been developing too much phys attribs, but he just smacks enemies around. For swarms or bosses, I buff him up with Disciplines and just dig in. Fights are breeze with this one! Almost boring

He also has quite modest Ranged for supplement, although I rarely need it, it's easier to smash or drain any gun-wielding thugs.

Both chars have good Persuasion (Brujah a bit better), usable Lockpicking, and sometimes usable hacking (Gangrel was better). I guess that makes a Brujah easier for an all-around character, Gangrel should be more specialized for combat to be successful in that, either by stats or disciplines.

Next I would like to try a Toreador, I'll probably try a Melee/Firearms combo, since their disciplines are helpful for both, with high Persuasion again of course - it's really my favorite non-combat stat.

Well, personally, if I would want to play the game 3 times, I would try to get each walkthrough as different as possible as the other.

But as my own experience with the game is still so low, I can't give much tipps here - except maybe that I love the Malkavian and would suggest to include him (or better - her, I like the female model of the Malk much more) because of his funny dialogues and extraordinary quest solutions.

But you need to max him in melee because unfortunately she has no direct battle discipline at all.

I also like Toreador. He might not be as strong as Brujah or Gangrel, but he's damned strong for a mere "artist" if you know how to level him up (Celerity, and maybe Melee), plus people like you (you can easily start with Secuction at 6 here !).

[QUOTE=Tenser]Well, personally, if I would want to play the game 3 times, I would try to get each walkthrough as different as possible as the other.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, how I explained in this thread: http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=53636

my characters in VtM:B will probably always be hack'n'slash

My Toreador will also have little time for artistic accomplishment since he will also end up as a killing machine (well, a finesse fighter actually, Toreador seem great for that)

Brujah - probably the best melee fighters with weapons, presence gives them the possibility to stun opponents, another good melee feature. Otherwise, they are more combat then words...so leave the gossip to the Toreador or Ventrue.

Toreador - fast, good at firearms, usually quite good at sneaking too, cause of high dexterity. Good in social matters too.

Ventrue - best in social matters, dominate discipline in small talk is quite a good special.

Nosferatu - The best sneaker around, not much help in social matters though. Quite good in melee cause of potence.

Gangrel - Next to Brujah the best melee fighter, gets some advantages in skills from Beckett

Malkavian - The funniest way to play VTM, dementation is awesome, can be a good alrounder, like the Toreador.

Tremere - Powerfull, cause of Thaumaturgy. A bit hard to play for beginners in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Lucita]Brujah - probably the best melee fighters with weapons, presence gives them the possibility to stun opponents, another good melee feature. Otherwise, they are more combat then words...so leave the gossip to the Toreador or Ventrue.

Toreador - fast, good at firearms, usually quite good at sneaking too, cause of high dexterity. Good in social matters too.

Ventrue - best in social matters, dominate discipline in small talk is quite a good special.

Nosferatu - The best sneaker around, not much help in social matters though. Quite good in melee cause of potence.

Gangrel - Next to Brujah the best melee fighter, gets some advantages in skills from Beckett

Malkavian - The funniest way to play VTM, dementation is awesome, can be a good alrounder, like the Toreador.

Tremere - Powerfull, cause of Thaumaturgy. A bit hard to play for beginners in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

In terms of in-game dynamics, there's more to some of the clans that you indicate. Ventrue, for example, are really very formidable fights. They get Fortitude and Presence which makes them the best defensive clan (rivaled by only the Gangrel), likewise dominate is a very powerful discipline in non-boss fights.

Likewise, in terms of pure melee offensive combat, my inclination is that the Gangrel are not the second best. More likely, the Toreador are. Protean is simply not as powerful as Celerity in the game. If you're talking about all-around fighter ability for melee, then Brujah, Toreador, Ventrue, and Gangrel will all need to be included. Personally, I think the celerity clans have an edge.

Tremere are a very potent clan in terms of disciplines. Thaumaturgy and Dominate are both very powerful. As neither discipline is horribly effective in boss fights, this is their major limitation. Blood Strike/Purge/Suicide is really tremendously powerful in the early stages of the game, though.

Still, personally, to mix up the game in multiple play throughs I recommend playing a celerity clan (i.e. toreador or brujah, your preference), Malkavian, and, probably, Tremere. Nosferatu is also a solid clan for a unique play experience. If you're only going to play the game once, my inclination is that Gangrel or Ventrue might be the best way to get the most out of the game (at least in terms of versatility of disciplines). And, as always, I recommend mixing up non-combat skills and gender for entertainment value in multiple play throughts.

[QUOTE=tank29]I am going through the game for the first time as a Tremere and I am surprised at how much I use sneaking and Dominate. Trance and Suicide are amazingly powerful. NPCs (humans) do NOT know you cast them (hence the not breaking Masquerade thing) and they either go ga-ga or drop dead. I have not found an area of humans that I could not sneak, trance, and suicide my way through without a scratch. Trance coupled with insta-kill or feeding, supplies all the blood you need for the suicides.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Tremere is still my fave after dozens of games. I can get my Suicide discipline before I have to head to the warehouse, and once I have Trance, Blood Strike and Suicide, I'm all but invincible to Kine, and a serious problem for Kuei-Jin, Vampires, and Bosses. Equip any kind of ranged weapon, and suddenly I have combination attacks out the hoo-hah, and even five standing armed opponents are a walk in the park. Of course, as with any kind of combination attack, timing and location are everything, and it helps to remember the detents on the mouse-wheel. In a pitched battle, you can't be constantly glancing at the corner of the screen to see what discipline you've got lined up - you have to know that by touch.

One thing about Tremere that I've not seen mentioned (SPOILER - blacked out):

You can blood-strike a Kine opponent twice without killing them. If you then feed, you still get full points for blood.