the ultimate party?

[luz]

I'm playing IWD II for the second time now, but I want some advice to make it easier this time around. What is everyone's opinion of the ULTIMATE party, the one that will kick butt both physically and magically and still help old ladies across the street? What is YOUR opinion of the ultimate party?

[showoffjp]

I actually spent hours upon hours contemplating and making the ultimate party for icewind dale 2...all the characters had perfect stats to their part in the party(my tiefling human theif was PERFECT), amoung my mage, and paladin(assimar[sp?]). If I weren't so lazy, I would list each and every character with their stats, attribues, leveling selections, etc, but...I am...
Have fun(just make sure to get characters relating to the class with the most attributes(example...theif must be a tiefling to get 20 dexterity and inteligence...awesome character, and make sure mage has the highest inteligence[mine was drow i think], and make the leader[should be a paladin] is both powerful and charasmatic(may have to suffer wisdom and intelligence points for strangth, dexterity, constitution, and mainly charisma). Hope you have fun with it...

[luz]

Oh, the agony! I must know! Perfection must be mine!

[Wrath-Of-Egg]

Perfection must be yours...

Try this party...

First character is Barbarian.. well you can add 4 fighter levels..

Second is Cleric.. i would take Lorekeeper of Oghma or Pain bearer of Ilmater..

Third character is fighter 4 and rest levels are bard..

Last one is Sorcerer.. pick feats like spell penetration and spell focus necromancery..

[silverdragon72]

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first of all do you plan to play HOF or not with that party ?


if so here are some rules how to build a good party:


must search for a moment that I find my earlier post !


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[silverdragon72]

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don't find it right now - but I will search for it on monday if you can wait that long


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[JJComo]

Half-Orc Barbarian
Aasimar Paladin
Human Cleric
Human Druid
Wild Elf Sorceror
Drow Rogue

The above are all single classes. Very strong early in the game and can kick something serious at the end. I've also found that a Monk of the Dark Moon/sorcerer dual-class was fun to play with. A deep gnome illusionist/rogue was fun as well. A Necromancer/Cleric (evil alignment of course). With his turn undead (rebuke undead in this case since he is evil) you sometimes easily controll attacking undead. Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence would be the abilities you'd want set high with this dual-class.

J

[VonDondu]

When I first played IWD2, I was overwhelmed by the character creation options, so I copped out and consulted a guide called Icewind Dale 2: Ultimate Powergaming Party FAQ. You can download it at Sorceror's Place. Even if you disagree with Ken's recommendations, the FAQ contains a lot of information about character creation. After reading about the Drow Rogue(1)/Conjurer(xx), it seems like an obvious choice for any adventuring party.

Here's the complete lineup:

Shield Dwarf Fighter(4)/Barbarian(x)
Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus(x)
Human Morninglord of Lathander(x)
Drow Rogue(1)/Conjurer(x)
Human Sorcerer(x)
Aasimar Sorcerer(x)

I made some slight changes to the party to suit my individual tastes, but Ken would argue that I weakened my party, so I won't claim that the party I played with was the "ultimate party".

[lompo]

My actual party is doing very good:
H.orc F4/Barb x
s.dwarf cleric of Tempus
Drow pal1/Cleric Ilmater x (will add a secon lev. of pal. later)
Human rang1/Druid x (maybe a futere lev. of barb. too)
drow thief1/cong x
Aesimar Sorcerer

[silverdragon72]

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didn't find it but I will just post some ( ) points that should be helpfull:


if you plan to play HOF you should consider the following:


- AC if not extremly high (60-80) is obsolete - no need to care if you have AC 35 or 38 - cause it just doesn't matter!

- so you need to rely on spells like MI, blur, blink, prot. missiles and/or summons

- you will have a very hard time to take out all enemies in melee if you haven't disabled them first!

- damage based spells like DBFB won't help much as most enemies have 200 to 500 sometimes even more HP!

- so what you really need is WotB, malison, Symbol: hopelessness

- even with a party of six (and some decent but well-thought level squatting) you will reach level 30 ~ at Kuldahar in your HOF game



so with this in mind let's talk about party creation:


- pure melee PC are weak! even if barbs and monks looks cool on the 1st look - they definetly aren't!

- there aren't any powerfull SC builds - so go for MC-builds!

- every PC should have at least one caster class!

- if you have a look at the caster classes you will see that you don't get much for additional levels beyond ~20!

- a good MC-builds has one major class (caster) with ~20 levels and a few mix-in classes (level 1-4)

- using ~20 levels for your major class this gives you ~10 levels for mix-in classes! these mix-in classes should be +/- one level apart to avoid EXP-penalties! so you can have a 4 - 3 - 3 combination or a 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 combination!



- best things you get from mix in classes:

- all: 3 levels give the best boni on saves!

- rogue: evasion, sneak attack & SP - recommended 3 levels

- fighter: feats(!), free feats, HP, BAB - recommended 2 or 4 (for weap. exp.)levels

- monk: WIS-boni to AC, evasion, saves, speed - recommended 3 levels

- pal: CHA-boni to saves, immunity fear, PAL-quest & using CS - recommended 2 (or 3) levels

- barb (if you have a non-lawfull PC that can't take monk): speed, BAB, HP, rage - recommended 2 levels

- wiz: as mix-in just for the defensive buffs: shield, MI(!), blur & (blink) recommended 4 or 5 (bonus feat but EXP-hit!) levels

- cleric: as mix-in just to use domain boni, DM-quest, cast divine scrolls - recommended 2 levels

- sorc: not recommended as mix-in!

- bard: not recommended as mix-in!

- ranger: not recommended as mix-in - the 2 free feats you can better get from fighter or wizard levels!!!



now for the races:


drows & DG rule! - don't care about beeing considered 2 or 3 levels higher or being sunblinded - if you fight outside (what doesn't happen that much - and if so - fight at night!)

- both have SR and especially drows good stat boni!

- drows have favourite class cleric (female) or wizard (male) the 2 major classes you will need most!

- DG have a racial +4 AC boni so they are best choice for high AC builds


aasimar & humans (humans for special builds only) are also good choices - tieflings aren't that bad - but I wouldn't take one a 2nd time!


- aasimars have WIS & CHA boni !!! good choice for sorcs, monks, clerics, druids & paladins - but be carefull with the exp-hit!

- humans get extra feat and SPs - so if you have a low INT PC that needs an extra SP per level - humans are a good choice!


general:

fighting with 2 weapons is best IMHO:

- no good shields available

- I know they do less damage then 2-handed weapons (with a high STR PC)

- but there are very good off-hand weapons available with very nice magical effects or damage - so better have 2 items with magical effects then only one!!!


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[silverdragon72]

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my party:


I always reload when a PC dies - fights were I need to reload in the normal game:

- targos palisade (due to using the ultra hard undead targos mod): 4 attempts
- toraks camp (due to using the ultra hard undead targos mod): 3 attempts
- BS: a few reloads caused by not killing enemy in time
- last chamber of 8 chambers quest: 2 attempts
- 4 iron golems at monastry grave: 3 attempts
- guardian: 3 attempts

afterwards I finished the game without anyone dying in battle!

no one died in HOF so far (chapter 2 right now)

so I think you could consider this as a *very* powerfull party!


1st PC:

role: melee-fighter - support arcane caster

race: drow male

alignement: chaotic good

stats: STR 18 - DEX 20 - CON 16 - INT 17 - WIS 4 - CHA 5

comment on stats: increase INT (20) and STR - you don't need WIS that much cause of your SR and +2 will saves (drow) - later you get better will saves from the wiz-levels and you can use protection spells!

major class: wizard 20

mix-ins: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3

order of levels:

1st rogue
after 5th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - barb 1
after 25th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - barb 1 - wizard 20
final: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3 - wizard 20

most important spells: all defensive & stat buffs - in general spells without a save - as you don't have that high INT nor GSF!

most important feats: imp. critcal, EW:BS (using some of weimars mod BS), PA, cleave, ambidex, 2-WF, dirty tricks

skills: open lock & dis. dev., concentration - all maxed + hide & move sil.

general comments: backbone of the party in normal game - no problems to master battle-square at level 9! does 50% of the kills in the normal game! Due to the defensive arcane buffs very capable in melee-combat even in HOF!



2nd PC:

role: melee-fighter - support divine caster

race: drow female

alignement: lawfull neutral (must!)

stats: STR 14 - DEX 20 - CON 14 - INT 13 - WIS 14 - CHA 5

comment on stats: increase INT (14) and WIS - you get additional 4 WIS through the dreadmaster quests! you need 13 for com. exp. and casting level 3 arcane spells later - go for 14 INT for 1 additonal SP


major class: cleric 15 (don't need level 9 spells)
mix-ins: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - wizard 5 (5th level late - exp-hit!)

order of levels:

1st rogue
after 4th: rogue 2 - fighter 2
after 19th: rogue 2 - fighter 2 - cleric 15 (dreadmaster)
final: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 15 - wizard 5

most important spells: all defensive & stat buffs - in general spells without save- as you don't have that high WIS/INT nor GSF! - heal !!!

most important feats: imp. critcal, EW:BS (using some of weimars mod BS), PA, cleave, ambidex, 2-WF, dirty tricks, comb. exp.

skills: concentration & pick-pocket maxed + hide & move sil.

general comments: secondary melee fighter & secondary cleric of the party - does 25% of the kills in the normal game! - due to extremly high AC melee-capable in HOF



3rd PC:

role: main cleric

race: aasimar female (gender doesn't matter)

alignement: lawfull good (must)

stats: STR 10 - DEX 18 - CON 14 - INT 3 - WIS 20 - CHA 15

comment on stats: increase CHA (16) and WIS - you get additional 2 WIS 4 CHA through the paladin quests!

major class: cleric ilmater 25 (25 for breaking SR and special spells like dispel magic)
mix-ins: PAL 2 - monk 3 (both ilmater)


order of levels:

1st paladin
after 21th: paladin 1 - cleric 20
after 25th: paladin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 20 (monk late & squatted - afterwards exp-hit!))
final: paladin 2 - monk 3 - cleric 25 (all ilmater)

most important spells: summon undead - heal - defensive buffs - offensive divine spells - excellent WIS-boni -therefore very hard to save against!


most important feats: GSF necro, combat feats, martial weapon great sword, comb. exp. - will give her ambidex & 2-WF late (can't use shield as a monk and CS is one-handed!

skills: concentration maxed + spellcraft (10 for elemental feats if needed)

general comments: main divine caster & secondary melee-fighter - due to extremly high AC melee-capable in HOF



4th PC:

role: main arcane caster

race: aasimar female (gender doesn't matter)

alignement: lawfull good (must)

stats: STR 11 - DEX 18 - CON 18 - INT 3 - WIS 10 - CHA 20

comment on stats: increase CHA

major class: sorceress 25/28 (for breaking SR, damage multiplier uncapped spells & special spells like lower resistance)

mix-ins: PAL 2 - optional: fighter 2 - rogue 1


order of levels:

1st & 2nd paladin
after 27th: paladin 2 - sorceress 25
final: paladin 2 - sorceress 25/28 - optional: fighter 2 - rogue 1 (EXP-hit!)

most important spells HOF: WotB, Symbol: hopelessness, FoD, malison, lower resistance, imp. invis., low level defensive stat buffs for the whole party: stoneskin, prot. miss.!

most important spells normal: fireball, DBF, chain lightning, chromatic orb, icelance!

most important feats: GSF evoc & necro, elemental feats (don't take SP cause you will damage your own party more then the enemy this way!)

skills: concentration maxed & spellcraft 10 for elemental feats

general comments: main arcane caster & and master of mass-destruction especially in HOF: cast symbol: hopelessness and malison from a secondary caster - then walk in the middle of your enemies cast WotB - and nearly everybody drops dead!!! - this build rocks in HOF!



5th PC:

role: diplomat - party-support

race: human female (gender doesn't matter)

alignement: neutral good (neutral is a must)

stats: STR 8 - DEX 12 - CON 10 - INT 14 - WIS 18 - CHA 14

comment on stats: increase DEX 13 or 14, rest WIS - 8 STR aren't needed but it's a pain in the a** if she can't carry anything!

major class: druid 21 (using weimar mod - needed for shapeshifting elemental half-dragon)
mix-ins: bard 9


order of levels:

1st to 5th: bard
6th to 8th: druid (then stop levelling until you can jump to level 21!)
final: bard 9 - druid 21

most important spells: bard defense buffs - druid barkskin for the ultimate AC PCs! - summons - heal


most important feats: GSF evoc & necro, elemental feats

skills: all diplomat skills maxed + concentration, wilderness lore

general comments: diplomat & support PC most of the game - didn't kill any enemy in normal game - keeps out of the action & plays tymoras song most of the time - but low level (8) decrease average party level ! - levelling up to 21 she can shapeshift to the incredible powerfull elemnetal half-dragon (didn't level up & use this feat to avoid imbalancing the game in normal mode!)



6th PC:

role: secondary arcane caster - party-support

race: tiefling male (gender doesn't matter - next time I would conisder a male drow instead)

alignement: chaotic neutral (neutral is a must for using a powerfull item later in the game)

stats: STR 13 - DEX 20 - CON 18 - INT 20 - WIS 6 - CHA 1

comment on stats: increase STR 14, rest INT - 6 WIS gives a little weak will save - getting better through wiz-levles later or use chaotic commands or spells like this

major class: wizard 20

mix-ins: rogue 10


order of levels:

1st: rogue

2nd to 21th: wizard (stop levelling for a while after you have haste & mass haste, don't level up if there are no good spells available!)

final: wizard 20 - rogue 10

most important spells: wiz offensive & defensive buffs your sorc doesn't have !

most important feats: GSF evoc & necro, elemental feats & some combat feats later if you like (you have a massive amount of feats!

skills: alchemy, spellcraft, knowledge arcana, concentration, search maxed + move silent, hide

general comments: not the best PC in this party - but you need him somehow - very good at the beginning (1 or 2 spell-levels higher then your sorc) until your sorc is high enough - identifies all items - and you need an generalist arcane caster for the spells your sorc doesn't have...

...but compared to the sorceress in HOF he is quite weak - but later with the rogue levels and all arcane buffs a good melee-fighter (using M-sword or BBoD)

alternative:

A) instead of the 10 rogue levels use the mix-in from the PC #1

B) skip this PC and use a carbon copy of PC #4 - but give the missing skills knowledge arcana & alchemy to someone else then!




hope this "little" advice helps


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[Wrath-Of-Egg]

Damn... this furom dont have neough smilies..

So you will just read some lame three letter words..

:TAP: :TAP: :TAP: if that is even right thing..

It is just too long for me to read it... but if it is from silverdragong it should be just fine.. unless he or is dragon she? well back to main thing.. unless ''it'' is trying to fool you..

Have fun..

[EriXx]

[QUOTE=luz]I'm playing IWD II for the second time now, but I want some advice to make it easier this time around. What is everyone's opinion of the ULTIMATE party, the one that will kick butt both physically and magically and still help old ladies across the street? What is YOUR opinion of the ultimate party? [/QUOTE]

My first character is a Paladin, A Paladin of mystra, 4 fighter levels rest pal-
high wis, str & char

Second is a Ranger with 4 fighter levels rest all on ranger, long sword and bow
high dex and wis

Third is a Fighter, a gray dwarf with all levels on flail and axe, and only fighter.
high str, dx, con. low on others

fourth is a rouge with skills in crossbow, sling and small blade, only rouge skills
extremly high dex, and regular in others

fifth is a wizard, a regular wizard skilled with crossbow and quarterstaff, extremly high intellegens is very important.

The last one is a Morninglord of lathander skilled with mace and shield, maybe one ranged weapon, just in case, but not precise shot,,
and add a lot of wisdom to the priests,

[odium]

It is true that there are a lot of possibilities of creating very good parties with which we can finish easily the game but this doesn't mean that they are the ultimate powergaming party. I find Ken's ideas of creating an ultimate powergaming party very good and it would be a great idea if you read his guide.

[silverdragon72]

[QUOTE=odium]It is true that there are a lot of possibilities of creating very good parties with which we can finish easily the game but this doesn't mean that they are the ultimate powergaming party. I find Ken's ideas of creating an ultimate powergaming party very good and it would be a great idea if you read his guide.[/QUOTE]


...the UPP has some nice thoughts and gives good back-ground knowledge for beginners - but the UPP is everything but definetly not *ultimate* !

I would recommend to read JUPP and some of the other advice here on this forum - build a party read everything a 2nd time rethink your party!


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[silverdragon72]

[QUOTE=EriXx]My first character is a Paladin, A Paladin of mystra, 4 fighter levels rest pal-
high wis, str & char

Second is a Ranger with 4 fighter levels rest all on ranger, long sword and bow
high dex and wis

Third is a Fighter, a gray dwarf with all levels on flail and axe, and only fighter.
high str, dx, con. low on others

fourth is a rouge with skills in crossbow, sling and small blade, only rouge skills
extremly high dex, and regular in others

fifth is a wizard, a regular wizard skilled with crossbow and quarterstaff, extremly high intellegens is very important.

The last one is a Morninglord of lathander skilled with mace and shield, maybe one ranged weapon, just in case, but not precise shot,,
and add a lot of wisdom to the priests,[/QUOTE]


...no offense - but IMHO this is the UAPP (ultimate anti-power party) !

but certainly nice for roleplaying purposes


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[Wrath-Of-Egg]

[QUOTE=silverdragon72]...no offense - but IMHO this is the UAPP (ultimate anti-power party) !

but certainly nice for roleplaying purposes


.[/QUOTE]

I dont agree with you.. that is basic party.. It is not powergaming party unless you min/max ceratin skills.. it could be fun and easy to play.. unlike your party UPGP (ultimate power gaming party) setup Silver. It is just my personal preference. But as for roleplaying.. Well it depends..

[silverdragon72]

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]I dont agree with you.. that is basic party.. It is not powergaming party unless you min/max ceratin skills.. it could be fun and easy to play.. unlike your party UPGP (ultimate power gaming party) setup Silver. It is just my personal preference. But as for roleplaying.. Well it depends..[/QUOTE]


...nothing wrong with that party - only in the wrong thread

...this one is about the "ultimate party"

..and with the party posted I'm not sure if you will even survive HOF...

...but as posted easy to play for beginners (at least for most parts of the normal game) and a "classic" roleplaying party...

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[Wrath-Of-Egg]

It should survive. If i survived.