GameBanshee Forums

is intelligence important to bard?

Well.. if you want to use certain skills.. but i would say that no.. make human bard and you can have enough points in concentration..

I plan to make a cunning bard, which he can cast protective spells on himself and sneak at enemy back and backstab using dual wield.

Drow rogue 3/fighter 1/bard(x)

Str 12
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 3
Cha 19

3 rogue lvl for sneak and dodge skill. 1 figther lvl for extra feat. Remaining lvl for bard spells.

Skill: most thieving
Feats: mostly for combat advantage.

I'm not sure whelther it's work effective. Any suggestion?

too much dexterity and too less wisdom.. more strength and forget dual wielding and get some big weapon like great sword..

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]too much dexterity and too less wisdom.. more strength and forget dual wielding and get some big weapon like great sword..[/QUOTE]

btw doest bard need spellcraft to learn new spell?

NO.. bard need only concentration.. But bard can manage without it.. if you aren't planning solo that char..

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]NO.. bard need only concentration.. But bard can manage without it.. if you aren't planning solo that char..[/QUOTE]

I see... thx.

[QUOTE=shock]I plan to make a cunning bard, which he can cast protective spells on himself and sneak at enemy back and backstab using dual wield.

Drow rogue 3/fighter 1/bard(x)

Str 12
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 3
Cha 19

3 rogue lvl for sneak and dodge skill. 1 figther lvl for extra feat. Remaining lvl for bard spells.

Skill: most thieving
Feats: mostly for combat advantage.

I'm not sure whelther it's work effective. Any suggestion?[/QUOTE]
You're going to get xp penalties. The drow's favorite class is Wizard (male) or Cleric (female). Besides, even if you went with Human you'd be penalized b/c Rogue and Fighter are not within 1 of each other.

[QUOTE=neocool00]You're going to get xp penalties. The drow's favorite class is Wizard (male) or Cleric (female). Besides, even if you went with Human you'd be penalized b/c Rogue and Fighter are not within 1 of each other.[/QUOTE]

hmm... what do you mean "Rogue and Fighter are not within 1 of each other"?

These rules is so

.

just take 2 fighter levels!

.

so with 2 infighter and 3 in rouge and infinite in bard will Shock still have exp penalties?

[QUOTE=Patrick]so with 2 infighter and 3 in rouge and infinite in bard will Shock still have exp penalties?[/QUOTE]

Not if the character is a human (or helf-elf). The basic rule is that all classes except the "favored class" must be within 1 level of each other. Each race has its own favored class. For example, tiefling's is rogue, aasimar's is paladin and human's is whatever is highest.

So a human would have an experience penalty with a build like rogue2/fighter4/Bard5 while a tiefling would not. But also note that because of the favored class, the character's race can impact the order in which your character selects classes to level up in even if neither race will experience a penalty with the end result.

-ishuman

A related question...

Does anyone know if the bardic knowledge skill works in conjunction with knowledge arcana or does it replace it? So does a bard need to put skill points into knowledge arcana?

-ishuman

Those things are useles... if you ahve wizard.. then give those skill point to him or her.. but if bard is your only char you could just identify those things on merchant..

+1 to Alchemy, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft.

So you will gain +1 Knowledge.. that thing will stack with other Arcana things..

The restrictions are there because there is no Superman

Intelligence has no effect on bard spellcasting. Giving your bard an INT of 12 will give you 3 skill points per level and nothing more.

Dualing for backstabs is kind of pointless, since you only get one attack that counts as a backstab. Once you take a swing and give yourself away you stop backstabbing and start fighting. The hit points, attack bonus and # of attacks for this character aren't going to be very good for someone who's going to be surrounded a lot, regardless of your protections.

With a character that's rogue3/fighter1/bard(the rest) your race won't matter. You''ll have the 20% XP penalty. The lost XP is worth a lot more than the weapon proficiencies the fighter level will give you. The XP penalty will make a human character gain 4 levels while everyone without the penalty gains 5, and it'll be worse for a drow because of the drow's effective level being 2 higher than actual.

If you level like THIS you won't get the XP penalty IF it's a human or half elf:
Rogue 1, Fighter 1, Rogue 2, FIGHTER 2, Rogue 3, with the bard levels however you want to add them. Humans and half elves are the only races that can have a bard as their favored class, and favored class doesn't count when figuring the XP penalty, so the bard levels will be ignored in deciding whether or not to apply the XP penalty and the rogue/fighter levels won't trigger it either.

If you want a drow MALE, dump the bard levels for a wizard-which is going to give you much better spellcasting. Assuming you go with a full party, with the 30 level cap a bard will never cast 9th level spells, and with 2 levels in fighter and 3 in rogue you should max out bard spells at level 7 (unless you go with your plan of 3 rogue and 1 fighter level, where you have the XP penalty but you get ONE 8th level spell). Plus the XP penalty might be applied in the same way as the effective level of a drow, in which case you max out at 435,000 XP effective, and around 350,000 actual which will limit you to around 27 total levels (that's around 22 bard levels which is what you need to cast ONE 7th level spell as opposed to four 9th level spells with wizard levels). If the level penalty for Drow takes away 2 more levels you still get the high level spellcasting as a wizard. BTW-the max only applies if you play a second time in Heart of Fury mode. If you go with a bard and take the XP penalty you WON'T get 4th level spells the first time around, you MIGHT get 4th level spells if you take the second fighter level and avoid the XP penalty. If you take wizard levels instead of bard the same is true but for 6th level spells.

Giving your bard a WIS of 3 will give you a -4 penalty on will saves which will guarantee that you'll fail them most of the time through at least the first half of the game The only way around it (and maybe the only way to not fail those saves the entire game) is by getting feats (Iron Will, Bullheaded, Discipline and Heroic Inspiration) that specifically raise your will saves. If you really want to use your feats for combat purposes you might want to put more points into WIS, unless you don't mind failing your saves for charm, hold, etc.

A level 3 rogue has a lousy sneak attack, getting an average of 7 HP extra damage(+1d6 at 1st level, additional 1d6 every 2 levels, not multiplied on critical hits), and evasion (I assume you mean evasion and not the Dodge feat which is available to anyone with a DEX of 13+) only works for Reflex saves and only gives a benefit if you make the save.

Spellcraft helps nobody learn new spells and neither does concentration. Spellcraft helps you identify oponents' spells that are being cast and concentration makes it more likely that you'll get off a spell when you take damage during the casting. Bard spellcasting is about the same as a Sorcerer, just a lot weaker.

Hey shock for my two Gold worth you could make it a half elf-drow for role playing purposes.

[QUOTE=sdwillie]Dualing for backstabs is kind of pointless, since you only get one attack that counts as a backstab. Once you take a swing and give yourself away you stop backstabbing and start fighting. The hit points, attack bonus and # of attacks for this character aren't going to be very good for someone who's going to be surrounded a lot, regardless of your protections.[/QUOTE]
You can execute a backstab as long as the character you are attacking is not directly attacking you.
[QUOTE=sdwillie]If you level like THIS you won't get the XP penalty IF it's a human or half elf: Rogue 1, Fighter 1, Rogue 2, FIGHTER 2, Rogue 3, with the bard levels however you want to add them. Humans and half elves are the only races that can have a bard as their favored class, and favored class doesn't count when figuring the XP penalty, so the bard levels will be ignored in deciding whether or not to apply the XP penalty and the rogue/fighter levels won't trigger it either.[/QUOTE]
Actually, leveling like that will still cause you to get an xp penalty because when you take the first bard level you will be Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Bard 1. The Bard 1 is two off of Rogue, thus giving you an xp penalty. Bard won't become the favorite class until it's higher than Rogue. The favored class for Human and Half-Elf is which ever class is the highest. You don't get to choose.

Simple:

Squat 1. lvl Bard -> gain XP to become Bard Lvl 2 at once

@neocool00, are you sure about the exp penality still appling, because they are all within one of another. At least so I've been told.

[QUOTE=Patrick]@neocool00, are you sure about the exp penality still appling, because they are all within one of another. At least so I've been told.[/QUOTE]
@Patrick
Yup, you're right. Because if you are Fighter 2/Rogue 3, your favored class is Rogue and thus ignored. So when you add Bard 1 and become Bard 1/Fighter 2/Rogue 3, the Rogue levels are ignored until you become Bard 4.