GameBanshee Forums

Just clocked KOTOR 2 on the light side and I have to say, the feelings of disappointment that I usually feel after finishing an RPG due to the end of the story were somewhat intensified with this title. My frustration was largely due to the lack of surprises in the plot and the number of loose ends that were left, so Im hoping someone can chip in if Ive missed something. Basically the dogs in the street knew that Kreia was gonna be bad and there was little of her background divulged. I feel she was a poor character to rest so much of the story upon and her dialogue was poor. Ive still no idea where the ship came from at the start of or how come it was in such bad shape. I felt cheated by the lack of action with Carth and Bastilla, I didnt get to see Canderous's face or the bloke on the ravager and after 40 hours of game time, my ship flew off with me knowing very little about the characters I had travelled with. There were some great opportunities to really make something of them which were wasted and the whole love angle so prevelant in the first one was underplayed. Perhaps its been too long since I looked at the first one, but the force aspects of the storyline to this game are totally inconsistent with the amount of Star Wars literature out there. Anyhow, think Ive typed enough, oh and by the way Im new so go easy on me!

I agree strongly.I had an odd empty(usually when I beat an RPG)feeling.I believe that there should be some kind of history that has happened scince Revan did what (s)he did.They tried to make it to where you didn't have to beat KOTOR 1 with an ending of Revan.You end up with the Ebon Hawk from Kriea and she is connected to you in the force.I forget how.It is so damaged beacuse of the random attacks form the sith and what not.And I am sure that Canderous is Mandalore.And by the bloke on the ravenger do you mean Darth Nihilus?That's all I have for now.

Yeah im 100% certain Mandalore was Canderous, the plot told you as much, both when Kreia met him on Dxun and at the very end when she uses his name. And Clan Ordo etc etc and John Cygan again did the voice.
So why couldnt they let us see his face and fill us in in terms of what he'd been doing. I loved his character in the first game, the whole tough battle-hardened outlook and the tensions he had with the other characters. I think they had to sacrifice certain link-ups by virtue of the fact that it was a game in itself and they didnt want to tie it too closely to the first as it would alienate anyone who hadnt played it. This made it difficult for me, knowing that I was Revan from the first game, but having people constantly refer to him in the third person and there were no scenes like the removing of your helmet on Korriban like there were in the first one. And yeah, I was indeed referring to Nihilus, possibly one of the biggest wastes of a dark-side character ever. Fantastic concept, scary appearance and noises, but he fell to my lightsaber with ease and how he tied in, Ive still no idea.

Well as I herd Darth Nihilus is the lord of hunger.He wants to drain all life from the galexy.He is an "Uber Sith".Darth Treya is the lord of Betrayal,And Darth Sion is the Lord Of Pain.They are the closest to the Sith I have herd of,With the exception of Darth Maul.

Yeah, but I just didnt know where they came from.
At least with Revan and Malak there was a sense of who they were and their position in events. They were good Jedi who turned to the dark side while fighting against the mandalorians and became the new threat. With These new three I wasnt sure how they related to each other.

Well It is a mystery kinda where they came from though.Go to google and type in History of the sith and you can find out more.

All of the following is from my semi-faulty memory so take it for what it's worth.

I remember during one of my way-too-many passes through the game where it was mentioned that Nihilus was "born of Malachor". Like a force aparition or something. Which would explain why he's rolling in a hoopty star destroyer. He just snagged one of the ships that was floating around the planet.

Kreia is Revan's first master and she mentions that after the events of the first game were all over, Revan returned to his first master. So that might explain how the Ebon Hawk ended up in Kreia's hands with the droids still on board.

Sion is one of Kreia's many failed apprentices. That ties him to Kreia but I'm still not entirely sure how Nihilus got involved.

good cut scene

I dont' no if you knew this, but if u didn't it explains a bit more of the plot to do with kreia. If you have enough influance with kreia ask her that question that says "Krie what are you, Jedi or Sith?". If succesful she shows you a cut scene of how she was betrayed by sion. In my oppinion it is the best cut scene in the game, but I won't spoil it for you.

First of all you don't even have to influnce Kreia to make the video apear if you have at least 14 of intelligence there is an option on the dialog that makes her show it to you, i see it the first time that i spoke too her just after being freed for the TSF.
I desagree. I think that the plot is the best ever from Planescape Torment. The real lacking is on the ending, but come on the ending its no the entire plot. The plot talks about the final Jedi and the ones scattered throught the galaxy, the death of the force and the reconstrucción of the Jedi Order, perhaps stronger than ever, there is (personally) no other thing that make me shiver in the skin that hearing the music of this game and at the same time know that the Thousand Fountains on Coruscant have fallen still mourning for the lost Jedi. The plot is in fact very epic and not thrilling perhaps, but its profound like the one of Planescape. I most admit that there is some lacking in the dialogs (the word echo was said so much that maked me crazy), in the actings (that voice of the Queen Talia, its the worse í've ever heard), maybe there is too much ship crashing to tie the plot on somewhere specific, and too much "censuring" (like wipe out the side history of HK-47 with the clones). Everyone must understand that this follows the history of Revan in someway, and that's way you cannot turn away for Malachor. Even Kreia or Darth Traya is instrumental to the plot, and her personality is a little unbelievable but she is perfect, she has seen both parts of the Force (the dark side from the teachings of the Sith -i mean the true Sith, if you look at that scene then you will understand almost everything, and the light side for self experience). The character is beatiful developed, you just have to undestand that seen both sides and being rejected by both sides makes she hate the Force and she believes that the Force most be ended. You are the key of course for that she allows you to make a bond with her (she knows of your power from the very begining and she teaches you too grow in the force and be even more connected to you). When i said rejected i mean that she was exiled, but not just for the Jedi (after what she went too Malachor in search of Revan) also for the Sith. The picture of Kreia being a traitor and a Sith fits well is only for that, that she is considered a Sith in the game (as is said in the game Sith is just a title). I think that all will be more pleased if the patches improve the game and the scripted ending shows up.

the plot and the feeling of its inadequacy reminded me of The Village (M Night Shyamalan) when I saw it. After Sixth Sense and Unbreakable and even Signs, audiences expected a spectacular plot or twist in The Village. We did not get it. In fact for me, The Village was extremely predictable and I was not satisfied.

Now as for KOTOR2, we did not get any fancy plot twistings or surprises. Bioware did such a great job with KOTOR that we had high expectations for the sequel.

Perhaps our expectations were simply too high. The Sith Lords wasn't a bad game per se and the ending was nothing less than average. That being said, Bioware better get on board for KOTOR3!!

I agree strongly M Night Shamadingdong should die also.(lol that is what me and a few others call him )But there was an emptyness in me.Bioware OWNED KOTOR as it was.The first was to good and we were expecting to much.KOTOR 3 should be better.I hope it is.There has been much talk on it's proggression and what not.

I think a lot of it stems from just how complicated things got - they had to not only build on the first game, but also juggle all the different ways things could play out. You couldn't have Carth or Bastilla as central characters because, if I remember right, you get the chance to kill both of them at some point toward the end of KOTOR 1. I was amazed they managed to pull off one storyline at all, given the different endings for the first game.

Honestly, the whole thing cried out "middle of a trilogy" to me. If that's the case, I don't envy the people who have to wrap up two games' worth of LS/DS/male/female/Revan/exile storylines all together.

well in my opinion its not going to be that hard ... and here is why:

KOTOR2 (G0-T0 actually) tell us that Darth Revan *never* destroyed planets , only conquer them and preserved the infrastructure intact. Second if u choused Revan as light side u find out that (s)he fly off to find true sith, if u choused Revan as Dark Side Bastila tell us from the holocron that *more and more memories come back* and Revan had to go in the Uncharted territories... for me those explanations are *the same* --> revan *never* felled to dark side and as (s)he recover from the memory wipe remember who are the real threat ... the threat that Jedi Cons sensed but didn’t recognize ...

And this is (I believe) the foundation for the KOTOR3 ...

PS: I still need to think of something for the Exile ... I don’t understand his character very well because of the gasp in the final stage of the game but I bet my money (2 cents actually) that ALL that Kreia said will reach him (her) and (s)he will chose an neutral path ...

PS: Please excuse my pour English

In my opinion the plot although hollow at some points is great with all the mysticism and secrets surrounding it.Kreia is one of the coolest chars I've ever encountered due to her appearance and nature.One thing doesn't click in though.In the end you kill her.Why don't YOU die due to the bond shared with her?What,she severed it in the end or something?If someone has logicaly figured it out post your thoughts.

[QUOTE=FiOth]In my opinion the plot although hollow at some points is great with all the mysticism and secrets surrounding it.Kreia is one of the coolest chars I've ever encountered due to her appearance and nature.One thing doesn't click in though.In the end you kill her.Why don't YOU die due to the bond shared with her?What,she severed it in the end or something?If someone has logicaly figured it out post your thoughts.[/QUOTE]


I belive there were something in the final discussion "you" had with her about this, but I just can't remember it.
Possible you were simply so strong now or aware of the situation, that the bond was non-leathal(sp?)

It was never really *confirmed* that the bond was lethal. From the conversations I had in my game, it was just a theory. I mean, if losing a hand hurt like all get out then logically if one died then the other would die too.

I just summed it up that Kreia dying and the PC not dying pretty much proved the theory wrong.

It is also said (although not in the game) that betrayal will sever all kinds of Force bonds. So in theory in the first game if your character stayed lightside the force bond with Bastila should have been broken. Oh, well.

I personally loved the game, which I played on the light side. I loved how the reply options I got to some questions, particularly Kreia's, changed my usual views on the whole good vs evil thing. When she agreed with something I'd said then it felt like it really mattered. Which may sound odd, but whatever .

The thing that really let me down was the lack of knowlege of what happened to the previous characters. I really, really wanted to find out what happened to Mission, Jolee, Bastilla and Juhani. Instead I got HK-47, Carth, TS-whatever and Mandalore. I hated Carth in the first game, didn't like Mandalore either, never found TS-M4 useful and only liked HK-47 for the comedy value. The only evidence of Jolee I saw was some visor of his, and there may have been something about Bastilla at some point (and I'm not thinking about that place in Korriban with the fight with Darth Malak and friends).

I liked how Revan had gone out to find the true Sith, it's the kind of thing she (or he, whatever) would have done if I were still in control of her actions.

[QUOTE=Invincible121]I personally loved the game, which I played on the light side. I loved how the reply options I got to some questions, particularly Kreia's, changed my usual views on the whole good vs evil thing. When she agreed with something I'd said then it felt like it really mattered. Which may sound odd, but whatever .

The thing that really let me down was the lack of knowlege of what happened to the previous characters. I really, really wanted to find out what happened to Mission, Jolee, Bastilla and Juhani. Instead I got HK-47, Carth, TS-whatever and Mandalore. I hated Carth in the first game, didn't like Mandalore either, never found TS-M4 useful and only liked HK-47 for the comedy value. The only evidence of Jolee I saw was some visor of his, and there may have been something about Bastilla at some point (and I'm not thinking about that place in Korriban with the fight with Darth Malak and friends).

I liked how Revan had gone out to find the true Sith, it's the kind of thing she (or he, whatever) would have done if I were still in control of her actions.[/QUOTE]

Well it's a new game, a new plot, new characters, although related in some form (the Ebon Hawk specially). There is no need whatsoever of reaveling the past or the future of previuos characters. In fact this history is far more different that the one previous it tells about the exile, one who's not related in any form to Revan, except for the Mandalorian Wars. The characters that make some presence is just for circumstance and to find any trace of Revan, their old friend. I think that the future shall tell us, when some KOTOR III come out and show us the conclusion of the lives and the historys of both Revan and the Exile, and everybody that surrounds them in the middle of the war vs the true Sith. It's just commercial behavior of any company that wish to sell even better the sequel. If you create a dissapoinmeant on one game then the gazes will be upon the next one eager than ever.

loose ends

Huge Spoilers!!
.
.
.

1. HK driod factory: ... removed from game. Fine.

2. T3-M4 zapping HK-47: why? What was the big secret, everyone knew Revan was gone... where? You never find out a specific place even @ end.

3a. GOTO & Remote - who winds @ the end: remote I guess. But the story never follows up on their faceoff on Malachor.
3b. What happens to GOTO? T3-M4? Hk 47? No predictions from kriea for them?
3c. Is Bao-dur dead at the end? what's with the holo?
3d. Why/where is Mira wandering to on Malachor V?
3e. Why did the ship come back all perfect after being crushed and falling into a chasm?

4. Romance: How the heck do I trigger a romance w/ Handmaiden or Mira. They mention they'll follow but never confess like Visas'? Supposedly there is a possible route to have them come talk to you after Dantooine2 instead of Visas.

5. What is the light/dark side ending? When does it start diverging? One walkthrough says it's when you save versus kill Kriea/Traya. I tried both: nothing happens except the ship flies off into nebula. Only in one conversation path is it even mentioned that your actually following Revan.

6a. Wound in the force: I though Nihlous was also a wound in a force? Why did Kriea need Main Char to destroy the force?
6b. Is the wound healed or is the force still going to come apart at the seams... since MainChar is still alive at the end.

7. Why is there no closing animation, did they run out of production time? (except distruction of Malachor & flying off into nebula)

8. What happens to Atris? I 'saved' her in my plot.

9. How do you solve the Dantooine Jedi reputation redemption quest?


That's all for my rants right now.... I justed finished the game.

Compared to the first, it was buggy, the plot was broken, and the graphics ppl cut corners.

I'm pissed. What the heck did they spend the porting time on? The first one had some changes and improvements between XBOX & PC.

(apologies on typos & misspellings)