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I have been wondering for a while now why the creators of the game made the game this way. I am about to start BGII soon and when the game opens the NPC's that are present are not the NPC's I currently have. I currently have Jaheria, Khalid, Imoen, Garrick, and Xan. In BGII you start out with Jaheria, Imoen, and Minsc. I don't want Minsc. It also has Imoen as a Dual-classed NPC; I have her just as a thief. Why did the creators do this?

Xanthar

This is a very fair question, and something that bothered me as well. I played through BG without either Minsc or Jaheira. In fact, I never cared for those two otherwise popular NPCs.

However, it's not quite as imposing as it initially sounds. Shortly after the beginning of the game you'll have the option of recruiting old and new friends alike. Obviously, not all your BG buddies will be available (though, most are dealt with, including all the ones you've listed), but in short time you'll interact with a host of interesting NPCs. So, it's not as big of an imposition as it might appear to be.

MILD SPOILERS

Now, as to their motivations, that's more complicated.

Well, some of their reasons for the Imoen being dual clased will become obvious once you play a while. (To give you a hint, they need Imoen to cast a couple spells early on). Similarly, she was everyone's favorite "dual-class" character in BG1. She had perfect stats for a wizard, and so many who were so inclined, did something similar to what BG2 does.

Similarly, Imoen plays a key part in the major storyline of BG2. As such, it makes sense that she'd be in the beginning of BG2. You'll learn more about that as the game progresses.

The motivations for their picking Jaheira and Minsc are more subtle. First of all, they probably wanted to give you some help to get out of the dungeon. Likewise, they didn't want to transition all the BG1 NPCs into BG2. As such, they felt inclined to pick some NPCs.

I imagine they picked Jaheira and Minsc for a few reasons. First, they were both relatively popular characters who were widely used. Secondly, they both have sets of abilities that help a wide variety of classes for the initial dungeon crawl. Third, their presence allows part of their storylines to play out. Both of these characters had companions they came attached with in BG1. This proves a good opportunity to play out a portion of their individual storylines.

Still, it is a bit "forced", particularly for those who want to play evil parties. It would have been nicer if they'd had some more "import" options for that initial sequence.

Regardless, it sounds like you like Jaheira. You may want to take her through BG2 with you. She has an interesting sidequest and is a romance option for the PC if you're playing a male. You can dump Minsc early on, so no worries there.

Who knows why they planned it that way. It is upsetting that you can't use all of your old compatriots and party members from BG in BG2, but the new game was supposed to be different, while keeping the style from the old game along with all of the good stuff. They do a pretty decent job of mixing things up and keeping some of the old pals you can hang around with. I do wish that Kivan had made it into BG2 as a playable NPC, along with a few others, but it was meant to be a new game, so new characters were probably needed more than some of the old.

[QUOTE=Erenor]Who knows why they planned it that way. It is upsetting that you can't use all of your old compatriots and party members from BG in BG2, but the new game was supposed to be different, while keeping the style from the old game along with all of the good stuff. They do a pretty decent job of mixing things up and keeping some of the old pals you can hang around with. I do wish that Kivan had made it into BG2 as a playable NPC, along with a few others, but it was meant to be a new game, so new characters were probably needed more than some of the old.[/QUOTE]

And if there is an NPC you really miss and they were remotely popular, there is a better to average chance the active BG2 modding community has taken care of the oversite (though with varying degrees of success.). So you can still find ways to play characters like Kivan...

Still, I was fairly upset when I first started playing that many of the NPCs I used were no longer available to me. Regardless, there are many new and, definitely, better developed NPCs in BG2 to recruit. So, I quickly got over that.

[QUOTE=Erenor]I do wish that Kivan had made it into BG2 as a playable NPC, along with a few others, but it was meant to be a new game, so new characters were probably needed more than some of the old.[/QUOTE]
Go to this site there is the mod for Kivan to join your party early on in the Baldurs Gate 2 game. Highlight to read where exactly you meet him (Minor spoiler)---(The promenade after you escape Irenicus' dungeon.)
He will walk up to you and talk to you. Hope this helps you enjoy your gaming experience.

[QUOTE=FireLighter]Go to this site there is the mod for Kivan to join your party early on in the Baldurs Gate 2 game. Highlight to read where exactly you meet him (Minor spoiler)---(The promenade after you escape Irenicus' dungeon.)
He will walk up to you and talk to you. Hope this helps you enjoy your gaming experience.[/QUOTE]

I've heard its a fairly well done NPC mod (and still being revised). I've not experimented with it myself (been working on trying Keto and Kelsey at present). What are your impressions of it? (If this isn't too off topic)

[QUOTE=FireLighter]Go to this site there is the mod for Kivan to join your party early on in the Baldurs Gate 2 game. Highlight to read where exactly you meet him (Minor spoiler)---(The promenade after you escape Irenicus' dungeon.)
He will walk up to you and talk to you. Hope this helps you enjoy your gaming experience.[/QUOTE]

Thanks a million Firelighter! I'm already up and playing and it's great having an old friend battling with me! You're awesome!

[QUOTE=Faust]I've heard its a fairly well done NPC mod (and still being revised). I've not experimented with it myself (been working on trying Keto and Kelsey at present). What are your impressions of it? (If this isn't too off topic)[/QUOTE]
Yes, very well done, a little overpowered, but Kivan was always that way with a bow .
As for why they made it like that I have no idea, but it still works out with all the new npcs and mods of npcs from bg1 (kivan).

@Erenor:
Your welcome .

[QUOTE=FireLighter]Yes, very well done, a little overpowered, but Kivan was always that way with a bow .
As for why they made it like that I have no idea, but it still works out with all the new npcs and mods of npcs from bg1 (kivan).
[/QUOTE]

So the dialogue, interjections, and storyline around the character are well constructed? I may have to give him a playthrough next time around. I always like the character of Kivan, as well.

i also though about that and saw that starting with a fixed initial party makes sense: Irenicus would have captured Imoen traveling in your party or don't; Jaheria was a friend of Gorion and was told to look after you, so it's very possible that she had been following you secretly (also, she's part of a organization that, like many other, enjoys spying you).
And for Minsc, well, I don't know what is he doing there -maybe Irenicus was planning to steal Boo from him!-

It also makes sense that the others NPC (which don't have a great link to you like Jaheria or Imoen) abandoned the PC long time before the hunt down

Yeah, those explainations seem quite acceptable
[QUOTE=NowhereMan]
And for Minsc, well, I don't know what is he doing there -maybe Irenicus was planning to steal Boo from him!-
[/QUOTE]
Or he wanted to know in which shop Minsc got that cool, flashy tattoo - so he decided to torture it out of him!

Minsc explains that he and Dynaheir came looking for your character after he or she was abducted. Minsc doesn't say that he and Dynaheir were with you through all of the adventures you had in BG1, but BG2 obviously assumes that he is well acquainted with you. Imoen and Jaheira, on the other hand, are supposed to have travelled with you all the way from the Sword Coast. My reaction is, why not? BG2 needs to have a story, and giving your main character some companions enriches the story. The game can't possibly tell which NPCs you had with you in BG1, so the designers picked a few of the more obvious choices (Imoen and Minsc were all-time favorites, and Jaheira is tied to the main storyline in BG1 if you consider her relationship with Gorion). Choosing NPCs strictly on the basis of "You have skills I need, so let's go adventuring" might have given an individual player a more suitable party, but the game would have lost much of its personal element, in my opinion, and that personal element is what distinguishes it (for the better) from a game like, say, Icewind Dale.

Imoen is given a major role in the main storyline, and Jaheira brings a rich subplot to the game (as well as a potential romance if you choose to pursue it). Minsc and Boo epitomize heroism, so they bring a lot of flavor to the game. But if you don't like any of them, consider this: you might not be able to meet all of the NPCs you met in BG1, but there are still plenty to choose from (16 or 17) to create the party you desire, or you can tell them all to take a hike and solo the game if you prefer.

To be honest, I really don't think it's realistic to meet a bunch of NPCs from BG1 in BG2. Your main character has a reason to be in Amn, but it simply stretches credibility to believe that all of the BG1 NPCs would meet you by sheer coincidence in BG2. Sixteen of the original twenty-five BG1 NPCs appear in some fashion in BG2 (only five can join your party), and personally, I think that's overdoing it, especially considering what happens to most of them in BG2--appearing in BG2 gives most of them some really bad luck.

The NPC mods such as Keto are really nice, and there are also some mods that give the existing NPCs some additional quests. For example, the Unfinished Business mod adds an interesting quest for Minsc, and unless I'm thinking of a different mod, I think the Pocket Plane Banter Pack allows Jan Jansen to create new items, which he should have been doing all along.

When I first played BG2, I thought I might miss some of the old NPCs, but I soon found out that BG2 is so much richer in dialogue than BG1 that after a while, I didn't look back at BG1 anymore.

I realize I've bumped a really old thread but having recently finished BGI for the first time (have played BGII for many years) I found the NPC selection that carried over from I to II to be quite interesting. Had not had a chance yet to list out who had. I see that VonDondu got a count (16 of the 25). I also have run into an old foe you fought in BGI that was carried over, Tazok. I imagine there could be more I have forgotten about and not run into yet.

I may have to try the Kivan mod myself as I really did like him in BGI.

Although Branwen (and Xan) are in the BGII tutorial, I really would have liked to have her as a choice for cleric in the game.

What are other folk's favorite from BGI that they wished were a joinable NPC?

What are other folk's favorite from BGI that they wished were a joinable NPC?

I always wished Yeslick would have made it over to BG2. I really liked his character and he'd have been a change from the healers in the second game.

btw, I definitely recommend the Kivan mod, as well as Xan. They both are very well written and feel a natural part of BG2, as though they were meant to be there.

dragon wench wrote:I always wished Yeslick would have made it over to BG2. I really liked his character and he'd have been a change from the healers in the second game.

btw, I definitely recommend the Kivan mod, as well as Xan. They both are very well written and feel a natural part of BG2, as though they were meant to be there.

Kivan and Xan are both must-haves IMO - as it stands BG2 has no dedicated archer-types, and Xan makes the perfect Wild Mage.

For some reason, I've always considered Xzar to be the Wild Mage. Xan is too panicky to toy around with magic like that.

to answer the old question of why the npc choices were what they were i was under the impression that bio looked at what npc's were being used the most - and in the case of immy - how she was being used. and made the selections from there.

unpairing the paired npc's also serves the story role - the conflict with irenicus becomes personal for everyone in that starting dungeon. nobody is there by accident.

--

the newer question - yeslick & coran are both missed as party joinable npcs. coran most of all as there isn't really anyone who fills his utility role in bg2.

Crenshinibon wrote:For some reason, I've always considered Xzar to be the Wild Mage. Xan is too panicky to toy around with magic like that.

Xzar would be a good wild mage, I might change him into one as well - though a mad Necromancer is kinda cool too.
It works better if you imagine Xan as a reluctant wild mage, wanting to be a regular mage but discovering after years of magical study that sometimes his fireballs turn into squirrels, and his Sleep spells Haste everybody instead.
"Young apprentice Xan has been training for years to be a wizard, and after long study of magic principles is being allowed to try to cast his first spell - under the close supervision of his mentor of course.
Young apprentice Xan: Proudly and eagerly - albeit carefully as befits a mage of a serious disposition - casts Identify.
Wild Surge: Color Surge.
Young, rainbow-hued, would-be Enchanter Xan's face falls: "*sigh* Why bother?" "

koz-ivan wrote:to answer the old question of why the npc choices were what they were i was under the impression that bio looked at what npc's were being used the most - and in the case of immy - how she was being used. and made the selections from there.

unpairing the paired npc's also serves the story role - the conflict with irenicus becomes personal for everyone in that starting dungeon. nobody is there by accident.

--

the newer question - yeslick & coran are both missed as party joinable npcs. coran most of all as there isn't really anyone who fills his utility role in bg2.

Yes and yes, another progressible thief (and a fighter/thief especially) would have been great.

Ha! I never thought of it like that. However, I personally can't see him as a Wild Mage, since, to my knowledge, it never gained much popularity in elven society. But on the other side, it does make a nice "last resort" wave.