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I'm playing the game a sentinel at the moment. He's quite good in battle, but i can't stand the fact that a consular would have much better and more powers. When i tried a consular i was upset because i didn't have much skills (security is the skill i'd like most to have, because i fear that i could destroy a valuable item by bashing a container).

Now you know my situation sot plz answer my questions:

1.I want to play a consular... Should i invest some feats in cross-class skills (i.e. security) ???

2. Is there any sence in usein 1 lightsabre ?? (is +3 to hit and +3def so much ??) If not, should i take 2 lightsabres or dual sabre ??

3. Does a consular need a good weapon ?? (i mean... what for if he mostly uses force powers)

4. I'd love to be pure LS consular. Is that good idea ??

Thats all.

P.S. Sorry if any of my quesions are noob like :/

Consular to either sith lord or jedi master is extremely powerful you can inves your limited feats in dueling and flurry to become decent at melee...as a DS consular your job is to completely lay waste to 10s of enemies easily at once...imo they are by far the most powerful class in the game...but a LS consular and jedi master will buff their party up so much that your 2 companions become demi-gods unfortunatly your feats and skills are limited your basically forced to use healing and persuade or awareness for skills and you can't afford to waste a feat on security especially since every single companion you get except HK47 mandalore and kreia are experts at security....it all comes down to what you want and there are 4 general classes(archtypes) pure melee---guardian to weaponmaster/maurader(they are the gods of dual wielded melee dmg...stealther so sentinal to watchman/assassin(very good at having tons of skills decent dmg output and decent force useage...very good all around class with greate roleplaying abilities in my opinion because of so many extra skills...then u got LS consular with is a buffer/healer and DS consular which is an atomic bomb and ticking

1 if you are worried about the lack of force when useing a sentinal then its good to remember you dont always have to follow the guardian/weaponmaster, sentinal/watchman etc route. try starting as a sentinal to get a good grounding in the nessacary skills and a few more feats and then take a jedi master as your prestige class to bulk up the force powers.

2+3 useing one saber is the consular like thing to do and as a consular it is not that nessacary to have excellent combat skills. with one saber and duelling you will do decent damage.

4 thats down to your preference, its the way i prefer to play the game taking only ls and neutral powers if im ls. it is more difficult without storm but stasis field is great and you can do good damage with wave.

Huh? Consulars get +2 skill points per leve plus int modifiers (only a difference of 1 skill point with the sentinel).

You don't need that high a security skill anyway and there are very few high DC locks that equipment and tunnelers can't help to unlock. Some of the high DC locks are room doors that you can freely bash in (only containers have a danger of damaging stuff and at the endgame, you won't care too much about the damaged equipment as you will already have a glut of them). Except for the end game, you pretty much can have any NPC pull the slack in the skills department. Demolitions you probably don't need unless you want to get the opportunity to gain influence with Atton, Bao and T3 at Nar Shaadaa with the air speeder. Repair is good (and consulars get that as a class skill) as the bug that affects breakdown for components still afflicts the PC version. Treat injury doesn't need to be high. Awareness doesn't need to be high either (plus high wisdom and headgear can pull the slack). Persuade definitely should be maintained until about 12 points at least. So a 14 intelligence consular (4 p points per level) has no problems maintaining the necessary skills at all.

your best bet with a consular is to go male so you can get battle precognition from Handmaiden. That adds your Wisdom modifier to your AC, which essentially turns your consular/master into an untouchable tank (especially if it is coupled with a high Dexterity.) My last game through I did a LS consular/master, and by the time I reached the Traya academy he had an AC of 52. Of all the times I have ever played through KOTOR2, he was the only character that could take on Kreia's three lightsabers simultaneously without using the stun line of force powers. I found that by far the best robes for a consular bar none are the Ossus keeper robes. I believe there is always a set to be found in the Onderon royal palace.

In terms of LS vs DS, it's exactly how it is in the movie: the DS is the quick easy route to power, the LS is the patient path to higher power. DS gets cool offensive force powers, but the LS gets the incredible force enlightenment spell.If you went pure lightside then odds are you have all of those nifty buff powers at their maximum level. By casting them all at once your character basically becomes invincible, especially coupled with a high AC due to battle precog. For the challenge of it all, I decided that I was going to clean out the Traya academy without using a single stasis field or force wave power through the entire thing. Even without the He could literally walk through withering firepower untouched through areas where my weapon master or my marauder would have had to use life support packs or stasis/insanity.

the only drawback to playing a consular is that in the beginning of the game he is kind of a wuss. You'll be getting punked around alot, so odds are you will probably outfit most of your characters to be meatshield melee fighters. Definatly go for the high dexterity and finesse so that you get that bonus to AC, as well as the single weapon feat so that you get the AC bonus as well.

Though he doesn't hit as hard or as often as my marauder or weapon master, by the Trayus academy he is plenty badass enough to hold his own. Give him master flurry, and along with master speed you can look at 5 solid hits, and depending on your dexterity, can probably do some damage. It is plenty possible in this game to have a super high dex and a super high Wis stat at the same time. My consular had a +8 dex modifier and a +11 Wis modifier, which gave him that godlike 52 AC and when coupled with Finesse still did some pretty heavy duty damage.

Good luck! Playing a consular takes a different approach to most situations than playing a guardian, most of the time you'll be relying on your brain rather than your muscles to see you through. It's a lot of fun regardless.

[QUOTE=the torturedOne]
In terms of LS vs DS, it's exactly how it is in the movie: the DS is the quick easy route to power, the LS is the patient path to higher power. DS gets cool offensive force powers, but the LS gets the incredible force enlightenment spell.If you went pure lightside then odds are you have all of those nifty buff powers at their maximum level. By casting them all at once your character basically becomes invincible, especially coupled with a high AC due to battle precog. For the challenge of it all, I decided that I was going to clean out the Traya academy without using a single stasis field or force wave power through the entire thing. Even without the He could literally walk through withering firepower untouched through areas where my weapon master or my marauder would have had to use life support packs or stasis/insanity.

[/QUOte]

have you actually seen the movies? dark side is stronger. George lucas says so himself.
BTW what is so great about force enlightment? Reducing the cost of the 3 force powers??? who needs that when you have a billion force points?

Both Jedi masters and Sith Lords can use great buffing spells. both can use force lightning really. The only real difference is that Sith Lords get force crush. so go for sith lord.

EDIT: Are there any actual 'buff' spell that a sith lord cannot cast?? p.s when i say dark side is better, i mean in terms of jedi master vs sith lord. it seems light side is better for melee characters.

EDIT 2: wait.....can a consular use force crush??? is so, disregard the above as they are pretty much equal. i cant remeber if you get it as a bonus sith lord feat or not.

When was that comment made? If the dark side was stronger, why was Luke alone able to triumph over the emperor and Vader? It furthermore contradicts most of the EU, being that (with notable exceptions) the Sith were forced into hiding to avoid annihilation.

Either Lucas was being inconsistent (which actually wouldn't surprise me, given the quality of the last two movies compared to the original trilogy) or whatever he said was taken out of context. If what you say is true, then I will lose a considerable amount of respect towards Lucas.

[QUOTE=the torturedOne]When was that comment made? If the dark side was stronger, why was Luke alone able to triumph over the emperor and Vader? It furthermore contradicts most of the EU, being that (with notable exceptions) the Sith were forced into hiding to avoid annihilation.

Either Lucas was being inconsistent (which actually wouldn't surprise me, given the quality of the last two movies compared to the original trilogy) or whatever he said was taken out of context. If what you say is true, then I will lose a considerable amount of respect from Lucas.[/QUOTE]

Well, i'm just trying to find the quote now, but i'd like you to realise that by stronger i mean 'more raw power'. Think of LOTR....the 'dark' side is always stronger, yet the 'light' side triumphs in the end. Victory is not to do with raw power. If the light side were indeed 'more powerful' it would kinda take away from the victory.
ALso, i seem to recall luke on the floor getting killed by the emperor. i know he was drained from the fight with vader, but he certainly could not have defeated them both in terms of raw power. rather he had faith in the remaining 'light side' of his father and held that faith. Which lead to vader helping him. That is the strength of the light side, it is not raw power that is uses to overcome adversity.

BTW i presume the sith were both universilly hated and outnumbered, which is why they were forced into hiding. I dont know what EU is though, so im just guessing.

EDIT: Seriously though, what powers make a jedi master superior to a sith lord in the game? force choke vs. casting 'three powers you already have at reduced cost' seems a no brainer

'The dark side is stronger, but, a dark side trait is overconfidance. Overconfidance has proven many times to be the dark side's downfall: The death star, the emperor, the second death star... all were destroyed because of the emperors arrogance and over confidance.'


That is a quote from george lucas in a commentry. Of course being stronger does not mean you cannot be defeated, so it does not contradict light side winning in the end.

EDIT: From the bottom of my heart i would love Yoda to be able to put the smack down on the emperor, but it ain't gonna happen.

BTW i presume the sith were both universilly hated and outnumbered, which is why they were forced into hiding. I dont know what EU is though, so im just guessing.

the EU is the Expanded Universe. Essentially there has been only a couple times in Republic history when the Sith ever threatened to destroy the Jedi order. The first was the Golden Age of the Sith, during the times of Naga Sadow. Other occurences were the times of Revan and Malak; another was the era of Darth Bane, and the last of course, Vader and Palpatine. In the 20,000 year history of the republic, this is not a common occurence.

I would consider the extreme hatred towards the dark side to be a weakness therein: I mean, part of being strong is being smart, and going around pissing everyone off is not exactly a good way to stay alive.

Well, i'm just trying to find the quote now, but i'd like you to realise that by stronger i mean 'more raw power'. Think of LOTR....the 'dark' side is always stronger, yet the 'light' side triumphs in the end. Victory is not to do with raw power. If the light side were indeed 'more powerful' it would kinda take away from the victory.

Then saying that the dark side is stronger because it has more raw power is an etymological twist, since raw power does not equate total strength. I've seen a 110 pound martial arts master flatten a 300 pound bodybuilder. And given the roots that Star Wars has in eastern Philosophy, I have little doubt that Lucas was not equating true strength with the size of one's muscles.

One of my favorite quotes can be found in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves: "I've seen a heavily armored mounted knight panic at the first sign of battle. I have seen a lowly squire pull a spear from his body to defend a dying horse." which character possessed more strength; the knight or the squire?

your LOTR is poignant, and true. The evil has more raw power, but the good has more strength. Tolkien had always been very specific about this, and one of his finest demonstrations of strength vs power was cut from the movie: the scourging of the shire, much to the ire of his fans. Lowly Hobbits are able to expel invading Orcs lead by Sarumon.

ALso, i seem to recall luke on the floor getting killed by the emperor. i know he was drained from the fight with vader, but he certainly could not have defeated them both in terms of raw power. rather he had faith in the remaining 'light side' of his father and held that faith. Which lead to vader helping him. That is the strength of the light side, it is not raw power that is uses to overcome adversity.

and I seem to recall that the outcome of the conflict between the dark side and light side within Vader was the light triumphing. If the dark side was indeed stronger (in every sense of the word) then deductive reasoning states that the dark side should have triumphed in the conflict within Vader. I mean, we can say that the dark side had the physical edge, but the true fight was not being fought with weapons, it was fought with ideas, and the purity of the light side ideals is what granted Vader the strength to overcome the dark side and end his former master.

Also consider that Luke had only been training as a Jedi for a few years, while the emperor (and Vader, for that matter) had a life time of dark side training under his belt. I'd say, given the circumstances, Luke held his own fairly well.

EDIT: upon seeing the quote: it both adds and detracts from my point: Overconfidence is a lack of intelligent reasoning. Intelligence is a virtue of the light side, and is therefore triumphant, for a man can possess all the power in the world, only to be outsmarted by a man who is more capable of using his brain.

Either way, I am sorely disapointed with Lucas. I found a beautiful eastern philosophical weave within star wars, and he took a big shat all over it by giving priority to strength, fear, hatred, and power. Perhaps I attached too much literary significance to a story created by a man who thought Jar-Jar Binks was a pretty neat idea.

okay by raw power i was talking of force power not physical strength, but whatever, i think we agree.....
The dark side is more powerful in combat. The light side does not prevail by being more powerful in combat. Power is not everything. AS GL said, dark side often comes with overconfidence, that is what lad to its downfall. It is very simple. The dark side is more powerful in combat. Light side has more inner power. In terms of gameplay however, 'inner power' has little meaning.

As for LOTR it is almost the same. The scouring of the shire shows the hobbits to have great inner strength, and they are victorious, but that does not mean they are more powerful in terms of combat.

As for deductive reasoning leading to the idea that Vader must win if the Dark side is stronger, this is ridiculous. The idea that if the dark side were stronger then victory would be guarenteed for vader is plain wrong. This would only be true in a totally controlled test, i.e. if hypothetically vader was pure dark, luke pure light, both were totally equal in force powers/saber skills. here we cannot know for sure about the comparative level of the two combatants force power or light/dark side alignment. Vader could lose easily, and it could still be true that the Dark side is stronger. the dark side being stronger would in no way guarentee vader victory.

After 20+ years of saying that DS is NOT stronger but faster, easier, more seductive GL turn around and say that. From some recent development in EU, especialy in New Jedi Order series whos storyline was developed by GL and writen by couple of authors I thought he moved to "There is no Light side or Dark side, there is only The Force". I mean, he even hinted something like that in AotC when Dooku said to Yoda after using force lightning:
"I see we have an equal understanding of the Force Master Yoda, so we should settle our difference with our lightsabers." [I'm not sure about the exact quote, so feel free to correct me, but I think it was something along that line.]

Dorian, from material released by Lucas Arts about Revenge of the Sith I found following: (Spoilers - highlight to read)
There will be a duel between Emperor & Yoda in Senate auditorium, and another between Emperor & Mace Windu and 3 othe Jedi in Palpatine's quarters.

[QUOTE=Ripe]After 20+ years of saying that DS is NOT stronger but faster, easier, more seductive GL turn around and say that. From some recent development in EU, especialy in New Jedi Order series whos storyline was developed by GL and writen by couple of authors I thought he moved to "There is no Light side or Dark side, there is only The Force". I mean, he even hinted something like that in AotC when Dooku said to Yoda after using force lightning:
"I see we have an equal understanding of the Force Master Yoda, so we should settle our difference with our lightsabers." [I'm not sure about the exact quote, so feel free to correct me, but I think it was something along that line.]

Dorian, from material released by Lucas Arts about Revenge of the Sith I found following: (Spoilers - highlight to read)
There will be a duel between Emperor & Yoda in Senate auditorium, and another between Emperor & Mace Windu and 3 othe Jedi in Palpatine's quarters.[/QUOTE]

yeah, i from what i read:
***SPOILER OF NEW MOVIE****
Yoda loses, so does mace with the 3 other jedi masters, although i think palpatine lets anakine finish Mace in order to further his descent into the dark side

didn't know that GL had been saying that the forces are equal before. i'm sure he only meant dark side is stronger in combat.

***MORE SPOILERS OF RotS MOVIE***
Actualy I think that Anakin made a choice to side with Palpatine against Mace, and I think that at that point Mace won his fight with Palpatine and was about to finish him. I think Palpatine made Anakin finish Dooku to further his descent to dark side. I really loved analogy to RotJ when Anakin and Dooku fight in front of Palpatine sitting in a trone-like chair.

Well he didn't say they're equal, in a storyline he envisioned (and I think NJO storyline is great, it actualy restored my faith that GL can still create a good story with unforseen plot twists, a faith that was shattered after TPM) is said that there is only the force and that light or dark come from within. Like if you are calm, composed you are using light side and if you are angry, emotional you are using dark. That is why Emperor said to Luke to give in to his anger. Then again by that logic if you are calm and controled your use of force ligthning would be considerd using light side so go figure.

Edit: On the other hand, there is no way you can explain Luke's use of the force to destroy first Death Star as using light side of the force because he when he did it he killed over a million people and with everything said using the force to kill is a dark side action but Luke is not considered dark sider.

the darkside is more powerful as far as offense goes but if my light sider cannot be hit methinks i win <grin> ...to comment on one of the above posts saying force enlightenment is a waste..dude if you tried to activate all 3 of those powers one at a time you'd have wasted 1/3 of the time on 1 of them by the time ur rdy to fight not to mention prob got hit force enlightenment is 1 second to turn you into god mode

wow.... this thread trurned into a battle betwen light and dark fans You know what.... I loved the dark side once. In all SW games. But now as i started JUDO trening i realized what the light side is all about (this may have sounded funny ). To defeat your opponent you can't atack him by force and raw power. You wait untill he will atack and use his own power against him. (i.e. if he wants to hit you, evade so he will just waste the energy he used of his hit, and when he is tired you can easily block his leg and throw him to the groud. That's how we do it in JUDO )

BTW... You know why the sith always lose ? It's because they have bad rules. A sith aprentice ends hid trening by.... killing his master. I've realized that in KOTOR1 at the sith academy (on korriban as i recal). The sith say that makes them strong, but the truth is that they're just killing each other and that's why they always lose.

ya can't you just see some stupid apprentice stabbing his godlike master in the back (altho i suppose the master would sense this yada yada yada) so lets just say by some freak occurance a very unpowerful sith defeats the most powerful without learning hence weakening their leader position etc

[QUOTE=Ripe]***MORE SPOILERS OF RotS MOVIE***
Actualy I think that Anakin made a choice to side with Palpatine against Mace, and I think that at that point Mace won his fight with Palpatine and was about to finish him. I think Palpatine made Anakin finish Dooku to further his descent to dark side. I really loved analogy to RotJ when Anakin and Dooku fight in front of Palpatine sitting in a trone-like chair.

Well he didn't say they're equal, in a storyline he envisioned (and I think NJO storyline is great, it actualy restored my faith that GL can still create a good story with unforseen plot twists, a faith that was shattered after TPM) is said that there is only the force and that light or dark come from within. Like if you are calm, composed you are using light side and if you are angry, emotional you are using dark. That is why Emperor said to Luke to give in to his anger. Then again by that logic if you are calm and controled your use of force ligthning would be considerd using light side so go figure.

Edit: On the other hand, there is no way you can explain Luke's use of the force to destroy first Death Star as using light side of the force because he when he did it he killed over a million people and with everything said using the force to kill is a dark side action but Luke is not considered dark sider.[/QUOTE]

*******SPOILER*******
I heard this rumour too:they fight to a draw, then anakin arrives at which point palaptine throws himself at mace's mercy, begging for forgiveness so that Anakin will attack mace and come to the dark side. However i find the other version of the story more convincing, where palpatine uses force lightning to hold mace back and both plea for anakin's help, with mace and palpatine being at a deadlock. it would be very wierd if mace were able to defeat the emperor who had so easily disposed of three jedi masters in seconds. SLJ even said he spends the fight on the defensive....although i know he begged not to 'go out like a punk' so maybe GL was gay and made him have the upper edge.

[QUOTE=Caldor Blake]wow.... this thread trurned into a battle betwen light and dark fans You know what.... I loved the dark side once. In all SW games. But now as i started JUDO trening i realized what the light side is all about (this may have sounded funny ). To defeat your opponent you can't atack him by force and raw power. You wait untill he will atack and use his own power against him. (i.e. if he wants to hit you, evade so he will just waste the energy he used of his hit, and when he is tired you can easily block his leg and throw him to the groud. That's how we do it in JUDO )

BTW... You know why the sith always lose ? It's because they have bad rules. A sith aprentice ends hid trening by.... killing his master. I've realized that in KOTOR1 at the sith academy (on korriban as i recal). The sith say that makes them strong, but the truth is that they're just killing each other and that's why they always lose.[/QUOTE]

However, Judo is not by any means the ultimate form of combat. Without a mid range and long range form of attack you are pretty screwed. something like judo,karate and Tae Kwan Do would be a good combination for all ranges, although i personally favour Wing Chung for short range over Judo.
My point is saying that standing back and waiting is all well and good but without the ability to strike back you have a severe weakness.

[QUOTE=dorian_gray]*******SPOILER*******
I heard this rumour too:they fight to a draw, then anakin arrives at which point palaptine throws himself at mace's mercy, begging for forgiveness so that Anakin will attack mace and come to the dark side. However i find the other version of the story more convincing, where palpatine uses force lightning to hold mace back and both plea for anakin's help, with mace and palpatine being at a deadlock. it would be very wierd if mace were able to defeat the emperor who had so easily disposed of three jedi masters in seconds. SLJ even said he spends the fight on the defensive....although i know he begged not to 'go out like a punk' so maybe GL was gay and made him have the upper edge.[/QUOTE]

This is also how i heard it happened. SPOILER
the fight was even and then palpatine tricked anakin into thinking mace attacked him for no reason.