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Why? I started a new game with all the tactics components installed, playing as an Anti-Paladin (the new kit that comes with Tactics) and picked up Minsc, Jaheira and Imoen, got the items, and charged forward at the first duergar party I met. What did I do then? I'll tell you what I did then. First, I watched as a mage cast confusion on my party. I noticed that none of my characters made the save. Then I proceeded to watch as then hacked Minsc to pieces, PWND imoen, raped Jaheira, and finally, slaughtered my character.
So I reloaded the game. This time, Jaheira made the save against confusion, but after the duergar had hacked immy to pieces, my own main character had beaten up Minsc, who had stood dumbfounded all the time, and then died of poisoning from a giant spider that had been summoned by the mage.

After a few more tries, I managed to beat them and decided to rest a bit. BIG MISTAKE! 2 more duergar spawned as I woke up (my rest wasn't interrupted, so my party was fully healed) and though I managed to defeat them, my party was in a worse shape than before. After a few more rests, I killed the spawns (they ALWAYS spawn after you rest btw) and was almost unscathed.

Thus it continued, but when I got to the library.... *shudder* There was a demon-ish creep waiting for me... and he was immune to normal weapons. Of course, I did have the long sword +1 and the staff +1 AND the dagger +1 but when I got them equipped on my characters Illych and some other duergar showed up and beat the s*** outta me.

I tried about 5 or 6 times, with varying tactics, to defeat them, but alas, I did not succeed. So I got angry. I shadowkeeped my characters to have 5 attacks per round and charged in like a madman. Did I win? The answer has two letters and starts with "N". Soooooo I got mad. I shadowkeeped them again, and added an extra 0 to their hit points!!!! My main had over 1000 hp so I figured I could take them. And so I did. but only AFTER my main had less than 300 hps left and Imoen was almost dead.

However.... I felt guilty over cheating.... so I deleted the save game....



So tell me... is REALLY supposed to be THIS difficult???? I even had the game on "easy"!!!


By the way, if I start a game in BG1 as a fighter, can I without shadowkeeping make him into a kit?

If you mean when importing to BGII, so yes, you'll be able to pick a kit for your character when importing. If you want to make him a kit in BGI you can get the mod TuTu, I think. Not sure on that one.

And that does actually sound extremely difficult. A little bit too difficult actually. This can be an interesting thread after reading some answers.

ahahahhahahha

I agreed with you, guy!! Tactics is cool (I loved the dialogue with Illych), but it is REALLY tough. I posted something like your post a few months ago, hehhe. I was playing two characters plus imoen (a wizard slayer Str 16 and a Kensai Str 17 -I like the feeling when you can buy a 19Str belt , and reloaded many times.
Duergar spawns are cool, and you need to make a tactic to kill them whithout being kicked too much. -spoiler- (try a lighning bolt with the mage and ranged weapons with the other).
A guy recommended me to use ranged weapons against Illych & co., but with a kensai (and withouth the boomerang dagger or a trowing axe) I only had immy and my wizard slayer with ranged weapons. It was a madness... so I cheated. Not CHEATED as you did (uau, 1000 hp, hahha), but cheated a lot with immy. Check that post if you want to know what I did (the title was something that included the word "tactics").

Someone recommended me to uninstall illych tactics, and that could be a solution... because that fight is a madness. "Only for ubber players", i was said

Btw, when you arrive akathla you WILL enjoy the mod Have fun!!

Well.... If I had never installed Improved Illych I might've not cared... but having gotten a taste of their power I feel like I MUST defeat them... fairly.

One of these day's I'm going to pull through with my guide on how to beat all those Improved battles, without cheese

I already finished the first part and could post it, if you want, but I'm behind the wrong comp right now. If you have a bit of patience, I could either have it up in a couple of hours or tomorrow.

Sytze!!!

Sytze!!!

If you don't post it here, can you send me a copy (either via e-mail or via PM).

I would really want to know how you managed to defeat Illich and a few others (though) improved battles without any cheeses.

I'll post it here tomorrow then. Basically, it's a matter of summons, invisibility/hide in shadows, patience and luring the enemies one by one.

Sytze, if it's pretty extensive and relatively long, I would suggest you send it on to Buck for posting among the BG2 strategy guides.

It's relatively long indeed. However, I'm not sure if it is that valuable to post as a strategy guide. It's hard to say of ones own work that it's a great piece of art. I could post a small part here and see how people react to it, if that is alright.

[QUOTE=Sytze]Basically, it's a matter of summons, invisibility/hide in shadows, patience and luring the enemies one by one.[/QUOTE]Well said! Those few words cover roughly 90% of how to beat tactics. "One by one" is most important.

Yay! I managed to beat Illych! Even without cheating or cheese! All I did was hasted my party and lured them out a few at a time. The only problem I had was the Jailkeep golem, who is immune to everything but elemental damage, but I cast the fire-blade-thingy spell that Jaheira has and tricked it to attack my main and minsc. It did however still take quite a few tries and potions of extra healing

I used the Anti-Pally btw, and when I got out into Akhathla (sp?) I got to level 9 and decided to dual class to a mage. Then I bought as many spells as I could afford and memorized them all, thus gaining another 6 (!!!) levels

[QUOTE=Sytze]It's relatively long indeed. However, I'm not sure if it is that valuable to post as a strategy guide. It's hard to say of ones own work that it's a great piece of art. I could post a small part here and see how people react to it, if that is alright.[/QUOTE]

Sure. Go for it.

Tactics is ridiculously difficult and is supposed to be something new and challenging for the BG series players that can destroy everything in the unmodded game without much difficulty. The problem is that it is so tough, that it ends up being a training ground for the cheesiest tactics out there. I would rename the mod "Cheesy Tactics." Sometimes it can be fun, but having to hide behind walls and sneak around and use every buff in the game wears you down pretty quick, IMO. I'd rather play the regular game on the most difficult level and adjust the spells and positions of my PC and NPCs to win different battles.

Yes it is extremely hard, but that's why it is called tactics. For the really true players, you must learn how to win without using cheese. You must learn to fight with... TACTICS. If it is too hard and you need cheese, you aren't ready for that battle. If your party is good and you can't win, you need to actually plan the battle without resorting to the good 'ol fashined hack and slash.

The extra difficulty means you actually need to think:
eg.
There are dwarfs in the dungeon designed to stop you from leaving, yet they are weak as.

Tactics.
"You aren't getting past us," say the dwarfs. Now, if this was roleplay and it was a jail break, you would be plannig everything, saying that you would use certain tactics to defeat them.

Tactics can be a training ground for cheese if used improperly, but it can take the game to a whole new level is used properly.

Use tactics at your own discretion.

Part 1

Remember, these are the mod's I've installed that improve encounter and/or add encounters: Ascension, Apack, Tactics, Battles, Dark Ritual and CoM encounters.


So here we go. When the game starts I have the following characters, with these stats and spells. All four start with 161.000 exp.
-Archer/Mage: level 7/8. Focuses on longbow and katana/dagger. Mage spells went to protection spells and the occasional ‘quick’ damage spell, such as magic missiles.
-Jaheira: level 7/8. Will use a club and a sling, though her proficiencies will go to scimitars.
Spells: ‘cure light wounds’, ‘barkskin’, ‘chant’, ‘cure medium wounds’, ‘call woodland beings’ and ‘monster summoning II’.
-Minsc: level 8. Will use a two-handed sword, a composite longbow and the staff +1.
-Imoen: level 9 mage. She will only use her spells and shoot the occasional arrow. Will use the shortbow.
Spells: ‘identify’, ‘magic missile’, ‘mirror image’, ‘haste’, ‘monster summoning I’, ‘stoneskin’ and monster summoning III’.


The first improved battle we encounter is the one against Illyich and co. Many believe this battle is way too hard and impossible to beat without the use of cheese. I will prove them wrong. I have tried many tactics on this group, yet this one seems to be the most effective.
This is what you certainly need to beat Improved Illych without cheese:
-Hide in Shadows ability
-Oil of Speed
-Every possible mage spell slot should hold a Monster Summoning spell
-Wand of Monster Summoning.
-Rest
-Staff +1 and any enchanted weapon you can get before facing them.
Here are the general tactics: the best weapons to use are ranged weapons. Have Jaheira use a sling and Yoshi, Immie, Minsc and possibly your own character use a bow. In difficult battles use your summons to take the first hits, while you shoot from a distance and throw in a few spells. Or, should you be a melee type of character, make sure the summons or someone with protections take the hits. This way you wont be hurt and get to keep a lot of druidic (healing) spells. Use your mages to keep the summons coming or to throw in spells like magic missiles and monster summoning. Do not use area spells like fireball, for it will scorch your summons more than it will damage your opponents.

Now to the more specific part. Here’s what I did in the dungeon. I beat every duergar party on the first level. This can be quite hard, since I also have the ‘slightly smarter mages’ component from tactics installed. If you want to beat these parties without too much fuss, you can use two different approaches. One is to hide in shadows and use the hit and run tactic, the other is to use summons. In these duergar parties the mages are the most dangerous, especially their chaos and hold spells. You have to take them out fast or make sure they can’t target you!
If you have a ranged weapon fighter who can hide in shadows very well (Minsc does a reasonable job at this, Yoshimo is better, but if you’re playing a thief, then your own character is probably the right guy for the job), then you’re better off using the hit and run tactics than using the summons. Spells are not infinite, you know. Hit the mage (with a bit of luck you can hit it twice, but firing ones is saver), run away and hide in shadows. This way the mage has no one to target her spells on and thus the spell is wasted. Make sure you are fast when doing this, because the duergar fighters will follow you! If a chaos or hold spell hits your party, then you might as well reload. The most important thing here is that the first spell does not hit you, but that the duergar fighters do follow you! Often these fighters attack the weakest character or the character they see first. They follow that character alone, so either have him/her protected very well, or have him/her walk around a lot. Use the other characters to take them out. If the fighters are dispatched, the mage is all that’s left. Don’t get overconfident though, because the mages alone are enough to beat your party to pulp. Hit the mages as fast as possible with everything you got, preferably ranged weapons, and continue doing so until she’s dead. If you see her casting a spell and you know you will not breach her stoneskin before she has finished it, then throw a magic missile at her. You will finish that spell faster than she will, so you will disrupt her spell casting. Two magic missiles are enough to kill a mage anyway.
The second approach to beat those duergar is to use summons as fodder. Cast monster summoning I and make sure the fighters and mage(s) see your summons. The mages will cast their spells and the fighters will attack. Have a ranged fighter hit one of the duergar fighters, just so they will follow. This is by far the safest way to separate the fighters from the mage(s), but, as I said, it will consume valuable spells.
*As a side note, with a bit of luck some duergar parties have more wardogs than duergars. Use Minsc’ ‘charm animal’ ability to control the dogs. Keep them alive if you can and keep them all until you’ll face Illyich.

I could add an idea to your tactics against the duergars, Sytze. I tryed the lightning bolt Immy can cast against the duergar mages and it works very well. That mages are not protected against spells, so the bolt fries them when you see them This tactic is very useful in the narrow corridors, because with one bolt you can fry all the duergars, and when the bolt rebounds on the wall at the end of the corridor, fries them again .
I used this tactic after have a rest, with the duergar spawns "Fry the mage before he fries you"...
On the other hand, I player a wizard slayer and a kensai, plus immy... so mi main was very useful when fighting them

Good strategy, especially in later encounters. However, when facing these duergar, I think I would prefer MS1 above a lightning bold, just to be on the safe side. Some lightning can really clear the area, but it might as well turn against you.

As for the character I chose for myself; I just wanted someone who was strong in battle. I didn't want him to have any special abilities, since everyone plays with different characters anyway. Every action described can be done by the NPC's you take along. My character exists solely for the damage output.
Why the Mage part, you may ask then. Well, since it's Tactics and Improved Battles we're playing, I would prefer to keep my own PC alive. And that's exactly what I'm doing: using the mage spells pure for my own protection. Personally, I'd rather play a WS-Thief or Fighter-Swashbuckler, but those classes are just too specialised.

ONE little bit of question.... how did you beat the Jailkeep golem that comes in the battle with Illych? It seems to be immune to everything but elemental damage, so the fireblade-thingy spell that Jaheira has was my only option but I couldn't memorize enough of them to kill the golem! I was lucky that it attacked my main, who had the most hit points at the time, instead of Jaheira or Immy, who just stood there gaping and casting the occassional haste...

That will come next. The staff +1 is the key to beating it.

Nooooooo! After my Xth try (like 10th in total!) I had every single foe on the floor... but 1, who was Baldy injured. He casted a single spell b4 dying : Summon Dark Planetar...

How the **** am I supposed to beat a planetar being level 7-8?