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Having completed the game a few times now, I've been thinking about my character(s) and I find myself left with more questions than answers. Consider some of the things the player character does in the game:

-destroys three plaguebearers all, presumably, older vampires than the PC
-kills Ming Xao (unless allied with her), the Kuei Jin high priestess in LA
-kills LaCroix (unless allied with him) an Elder
-kills LaCroix's sheriff
-survives an encounter with/kills a werewolf
-defeats a Tzimice elder not once, but twice
-slaughters an entire coven of Sabbat vampires single handedly

Now, I don't know much about the world of Vampire: The Masquerade as described by White Wolf, but it seems to me that these are astounding feats for a fledging to have accomplished. Which makes me wonder - Who are you?

I gather from the game that the strength a vampire is "born" with is related to the vampires generation - how far removed they are from Caine, the original. So what generation is the PC? What generation was the PC's sire? How old were they?

There is some allusion to this in the game. In the final fight with the Tzimice, he mentions the strenght of your blood and how it is wasted on you. In your final confrontation with LaCroix, he says "Like sire, like childe," although I believe this is a reference to your defiance and persistance rather than your strength. Still, it makes me wonder again about who the PC's sire really was.

I am hoping that someone will make a sequel to address these questions. In the meantime, what are some of your thoughts?

It just occurred to me that I asked for your thoughts without posting some of my own.

Since information on the PC's sire is next to non existant in the game, I started looking for some other explanation. Maybe you're not really anything special. Just another vampire trying make your way in the night. Maybe the PC's strength comes from an indomitable will to survive. A trial by fire, you could say. LaCroix keeps casting you into the flames, hoping to be rid of you and the complications you could cause him. This leaves you with two choices: Adapt and grow strongter, or die.

While this explanation may work, I find it to be less than satisfying. I am still keenly interested in the PC's true origin and their rebirth as a Kindred.

Ah, the old question resurfaces. I wouldn't bet on getting a definitive answer. We're still trying to figure out who the cabbie is, and what clan the Sherrif is.

For your PC, a couple of things factor into it, I suspect. First, the characteristics that were strongest in you in life probably carry over into your undeath. Maybe you were just one tough bugger in life.

It could be, though, that the situation is the determinant. Jack tells you up front that you've been thrown into a very unusual circumstance, with every Jyhad feud being fought in the street. Personally, I like your 'trial by fire' theory. Most of these vampires might have lived 300 years without a great deal of excitement in their unlives, but you get tossed into the middle of a pitched battle between eight factions where the rule is, in the words of Johnny Cash, "Get tough or die!" Having to keep yourself whole between the Prince, the Camarilla, the Anarchs, the Sabbat, the Kuei-Jin, the Plague-Bearers, the Tong, and the Mob probably means that you do just that. Accomplish in weeks what most of these vampires may have taken three centuries to accomplish.

Plus, you have to factor in generational differences. Jack was born in an era where he was trusting of himself, but distrustful of firearms. Your PC was born in an era where knowledge of firearms is practically bred in the bone, and you got an education that, in Jack's day, would be privy to the very rich.

It's like me. I'm 47, and no slouch, but I got handily beat in Super Mario Brothers by my 4 year old nephew. The kid is fiendishly fast. When I was growing up, the best wasn't the person who could snap-shoot the beak off a sparrow in .8 seconds. The best was the one who could hold still enough to get the sure kill and put dinner on the table. Kids today are born with multitasking brains, twitch reflexes, and keyboarding skills that I spent nearly 30 years developing. And they get better. Imagine the head-start your character has over Jack.

It's a great question. I kept waiting for some sort of answer to pop up during the course of the game. If it hadn't been for the fact that you saw your sire get killed, I would have bet the lead character was suppose to be the childe of a relatively low generation vampire (i.e. your blood is more potent than most). Regardless, the developers moreorless removed that possibility, and didn't seem particularly concerned with giving the central character any kind of special identity.

It does seem likely that your character is relatively low generation by L.A. standards (keep in mind that L.A. is full of vampires of relatively thin blood). Regardless, it basically seems the main character is simply a shell for the player to place any identity they like on. The only thing we are sure of is that you had a little bit of street experience in life, and you could at least basically handle yourself in combat.

The situation in L.A. is tense enough to where a newbie with a little bit of street smarts and a lot of gumption can make a mark. That seems to be the assumption they were running with in writing the story. But, yes, certainly many of the things your relatively young vampire does in their first month or so of unlife are certainly a bit extraordinary by White Wolf standards. That's okay, though.

[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]Ah, the old question resurfaces. I wouldn't bet on getting a definitive answer. We're still trying to figure out who the cabbie is, and what clan the Sherrif is.
[/QUOTE]

Why is the clan of the sheriff a mystery? I know its OT, but shouldn't it be obvious he is a gangrel? He uses gangrel spells and has a protean form.

I have never played white wolf games but I have played a few RPG 's and I have a few thoughts.
I guess maybe the time you spend in L.A. is in a relative game time and not in real time life. If we take the side quest of the bounty hunter for example, it would probably take weeks to track the doctor down, but it takes only a few minutes. The fights and battles take in real time I guess, but not the other things like investigations and running around to different places. So maybe it took around a few years to do this stuff. And maybe we gained our powers a lot faster then other ones as we were constantly in fights, while the others sat from above watching us, getting fat and getting lazy....
I guess am also with the "trial by fire" theorem

[QUOTE=Anaximander] In your final confrontation with LaCroix, he says "Like sire, like childe,"[/QUOTE]

That's a cool quote, I must've missed it though. It reminds me of a cool theory someone else posted elsewhere, that Jack is your true sire.

I think this is the most interesting question in the game. I was dying to know it each time I encountered Andrei, and he talked about the blood. It is frustrating... Andrei would say "doesn't it make you wonder?". Of course it does! And an answer is never given.

With this question, and most of the questions of the story, the way to the answer is first to ask, will White Wolf, in another game, or otherwise, release a sequel in which these answers will be given. If not, then the answer this and all the other mysterious questions of the game can only be answered as Faust said.
[QUOTE=Faust]simply a shell for the player to place any identity they like on. [/Quote]

Wasted blood

I share your curiosity about what the warform tells you about your blood and that Ming also believes you to be special.

the point is that the character is being played by people who have an understanding of how best to play RPG and can maximise their opportunities. if the character could not re-load, would he/she risk final death? probably a character would be much more cautious. however, in the game, you can be as bold as you wish and with experience you can minimise effort and maximise rewards - take the use of the tomes, sorry 'manuals' - players know how best to time the use of manuals and free training to save XP - with that prescience, the character can develop into an utter a-kicker during the game with maxed (i.e. level 5) powers.

the Nietzsche quote "that which does not kill us makes us stronger" applies to game characters rather well - survive a mission and get XP to make life easier - however, the experiences get more challenging and the designers must balance game-play which permits the character to succeed (with the newly- enhanced skills) against realism. balancing ability and skill against the available challenge is the developers' problem.

I think troika got it right - even with very astute players having maxed their XP opportunities, most missions have an element of challenge, even when the player knows what is around that corner.

It is the determination and cunning of the player that makes the character a success - all vamps have the possibility, but the PC uses the opportunities or does not have a game to play. a weak PC could sit in his/her haven all day - but where would be the fun in that?

Isn't it easy to measure the generation?

If the game follows character creation standard for bloodpoints, then the character is 8th or 7th generation, I think. 8th has 15 bloodpoints and 7th has 20. But then... it might be tweaked, as the bloodcost of the disciplines and the actual effects of the disciplines certainly has been.

;-)
Jhez, pen-and-paper roleplayer

I'd go with 8th gen because all your abilities and disciplines are limited to 5 "dots" while 7th gen limit is 6 "dots".
While LaCroix is some 200+ years older than you he is probably also 8th gen vampire - it's only my conclusion since he couldn't dominate you in the end which would be easy for him to do if he's older (lower generation, not in years he lived) than you.

If I recall correctly: 13th generation = 10 bloodpoints, so technically you should be generation 13.

However, that argument doesn't survive, because the games uses a modified vesion af the Vampire rules. For example, an attribute score of 2 is average human in the role playing game, but a high starting score in the computer game.

[QUOTE=Santoza]That's a cool quote, I must've missed it though.[/QUOTE]

LaCroix says it after you defeat his Sheriff (in behemoth form) and re-enter the building. Just before he starts groveling. It was that line, "Like sire, like childe", that made really want to know more about the PC's sire. LaCroix obviously knew them. Who else did?

Ah, well. I suppose the PC's origin was intentionally withheld so players could use their imagination, leaving the character, as one previous poster aptly put it, a shell.

Like Sire, Like Childe

Surely when Lac says "Like Sire, Like Childe" he simply refers to the fact that the Sire had not asked him permission and was thus disloyal?

If the Sire was much like the PC, Lac would have been ash, not top of the bonfire.

LaCroix is one of those annoying creeps you remember from school - a snide manipulator who bullies other kids and has a big mate to do his henching.

No wonder I always side with the Anarchs - without the pnp/novel background and from a game-only perspective, there is no reason to do otherwise.

being an anarch doesn't mean you have to live in a seedy bar. Long term - you'd probably move in to have Confession as your haven like the sisters have at Asylum. you'd not need to go out to eat...

[QUOTE=Celacena]Surely when Lac says "Like Sire, Like Childe" he simply refers to the fact that the Sire had not asked him permission and was thus disloyal?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I believe this is a reference to the PC's persistant defiance, not any inheirant trait passed on by the sire.

I typically side with no one, and walk my own path. The Anarchs in general seem a decent and honorable group, but there is something about Nines - something I can't quite put my finger on - that rubs me the wrong way. I can never bring myself to side with him either.

It reminds me of a cool theory someone else posted elsewhere, that Jack is your true sire.

Not a chance. If Jack was your true sire then you could only play as a Brujah.

Nines

it would have been fun to have had Nicolas Cage do the voice - using his "Wild at Heart" drawl.

Jack ? - KK from Blade, obviously.

LaCroix? - annoying little git...Leonardo DiCaprio anybody?

Damsel - Drew Barrymore

Tremere Regent - Laurence Fishburne (Morpheus from the Matrix) is a bit obvious - James Earl Jones? I might side with JEJ, as he's a supercool dude.

the psycho-sisters ? - would have to be a pornstar, wouldn't it?

Venus - Nigella Lawson!!!!

Assorted Malks - Jim Carey

Gary - Shane McGowan (the Pogues)

I have trouble remembering the names of Far East movie stars - but the actress from Azumi would be the lead candidate for the Hokey-Cokey monster muncher. Jackie Chan (as he is now) would have made a good Zhao. Jet Li, Zeyguma the pusher (a.k.a. hokey-dokey) - Pat Morita (karate kid etc) gets to be retired assasin Mako (Conan) gets to be the other one.

an all-star cast.

any opinions?

ok guys I new on this forum, but I've been folowing events here for 2 weeks, so got really interested in this topic. First idea was, that the Sire is Caine himself, now I got the proof for that

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=60868

André Sogliuzzo .... Mercurio/Caine/Bruno/Victor/Zhao (voice)

btw no "Cab driver" voice was found

Being sired by Caine is out of the question. That would make you 2nd generation - a step above the Antedilluvians (sp?) themselves. You wouldn't have to lift a finger against the other vampires in the game if that were the case. You could will every vampire in LA to die, and they would. At least, that's my understanding....

Besides, male characters have a female sire.

At any rate, I just started playing around the console and turned vchar_edit_histories on, enabling history selection at the beginning of the game. While most of the histories you can choose from are not that impressive, I'm really enjoying the depth this option lends to your character's personal history. I created a Tremere with the Eldrith Prodigy history, for exmple. Now there's a reason for him being unusually powerful for a fledgling - he was a gifted magic user in life, and this gift has manifsted itself in his unlife.

I'm curious, though...Is this in line with the rules of the PnP game, or something they just made up for Bloodlines?

Jack ? - There is only one Jack. Nichelson.
LaCroix? - Pompous and arrogant. Only Sean Connery could do it right. Nothing against Sean, but he has the skills, the talent, and the voice.
Damsel - Miss Hissy Fit. It's got to be Tia Carrerre. She has both the miss badass and the attitude. Second place goes to Angelina Jolie.
Tremere Regent - It could only be James Earl Jones. There isn't another warm body on the planet that can project that kind of presence in his voice. The only thing that startled me about Star Wars is that Aniken Skywalker was white. I expected JEJ behind that mask.
the psycho-sisters ? - Not necessarily a porn star. Lucy Liu could do that. She can do nearly anything. She can schitz out in the finest ways.
Venus - Pamela Anderson Lee. Nobody else.
Assorted Malks - Jim Carey - No argument.
Gary - It has to be the grandfather of the spooky people. There is only one. Vincent Price.

[QUOTE=Anaximander]Being sired by Caine is out of the question. That would make you 2nd generation - a step above the Antedilluvians (sp?) themselves. You wouldn't have to lift a finger against the other vampires in the game if that were the case. You could will every vampire in LA to die, and they would. At least, that's my understanding....

Besides, male characters have a female sire.

[/QUOTE]

I think that as many NPC pointed out :" you even don't know what power you have" or somethin like that! It's like Neo in Matrix, he jsut did not know what he is able to. The same may be here!
1)Caine could make vampire from any clan
2) female voice?- if nosferatu can become clean and beautiful, then I think Caine may change voice/appearance as well, or your mind was really frustrated by discipline of his
3) why is he followinf you all the game? guy in the taxi- this is he! and his speech in the end

Everybody feel something, something bad and strange! nobody really knows what is that, some are thinking that it is because of sarchapagus, but in the end we see- it is false, there is nothing in it. The real doom's day sign is YOU! you are made by Caine, but you don't know yet what your abilities are ...