Its on its way... Public Smoking ban?

[Denethorn]

The UK's Department of Health rolled out a long term plan today, to ban public smoking. Basically it goes like this:

1. By the end of 2006 all government and healthcare buildings will be non smoking
2. By the end of 2007 all enclosed public areas will be non smoking
3. By the end of 2008 all bars and pubs where food is prepared and served will be non smoking

Its the last one that shocked me . Aside from the seedy night clubs, all of my watering-holes serve food. The idea is to "balance between the rights of the smoker, and to protect employees of such establishments from dangerous passive smoking." I'm in agreement with the first two points, but the last one is a true violation of a drinker's liberty ! Besides, passive smoking in a bar or pub is an accepted occupational hazard .

Joking and shallowness aside, smoking is filthy, and a habit I sorely wish I was free of. I'm glad the day of a public ban on smoking is coming. Nevertheless, a cigarette with a pint of beer is still one of the most precious moments in the world . Frankly I'm suprised that they've even dared to try and fiddle with the sacred pub culture .

While I may be asking a community of pure non-smokers I'd still like to know your thoughts?

[dragon wench]

IMO, those regulations don't go far enough. I'd like to see smoking banned in *all* public places both indoors and outdoors. Second hand smoke is vile... I don't see why people should have to develop lung diseases due to the bad habits of others..

Pretty extreme on my part, I know, but I have asthma so it's a sensitive subject for me.

[Aegis]

[QUOTE=Denethorn]The UK's Department of Health rolled out a long term plan today, to ban public smoking. Basically it goes like this:

1. By the end of 2006 all government and healthcare buildings will be non smoking
2. By the end of 2007 all enclosed public areas will be non smoking
3. By the end of 2008 all bars and pubs where food is prepared and served will be non smoking

Its the last one that shocked me . Aside from the seedy night clubs, all of my watering-holes serve food. The idea is to "balance between the rights of the smoker, and to protect employees of such establishments from dangerous passive smoking." I'm in agreement with the first two points, but the last one is a true violation of a drinker's liberty ! Besides, passive smoking in a bar or pub is an accepted occupational hazard .

Joking and shallowness aside, smoking is filthy, and a habit I sorely wish I was free of. I'm glad the day of a public ban on smoking is coming. Nevertheless, a cigarette with a pint of beer is still one of the most precious moments in the world . Frankly I'm suprised that they've even dared to try and fiddle with the sacred pub culture .

While I may be asking a community of pure non-smokers I'd still like to know your thoughts?[/QUOTE]Ontario has had that for about 3 years nows. Can't say it's hurt business all that much, and I'm speaking from experiance. I've worked as a waiter, and when we made the switch, people were more than willing to light up outside.

[Magrus]

NY just banned smoking everywhere in the past few years. For a while, businesses and bars had their customers and sales drop significantly. My friends almost all smoke so I had to hear them whine and moan over it. As a non-smoker, I was thoroughly grateful for health reasons. I feel the same way as you DW. I can't breath around second-hand smoke. I end up feeling wretched and like my lungs will collapse. It's not worth it to me to stay with my friends who smoke and risk an asthma attack again. They get pissy and throw fits when I wander off without them, but, I don't end up in the hospital choking for air so it works for me.

My friends HAVE ended up smoking less when they go out because of it though. It saves them money.

It really has put a damper on the bar scene in some areas. Then again, there will always been a need for a public place to get drunk and pick up a date, so, people going for that reason will still go, wander outside to smoke, and go back inside.

As far as the places themselves, restaurants and stuff. They don't look so filthy. A lot of places have taken the time and effort to repaint and what not, and the paint stays clean and everything. It's nice walking into a bar & grill and not seeing yellow stains covering their white walls IMO.

My great aunt and uncle's own two Irish pubs here and the ban hasn't hurt their business too badly. They've been considering opening another, so if thats still in consideration, they obviously have enough business coming in to warrant the thought.

[Denethorn]

[QUOTE=Magrus]
It's nice walking into a bar & grill and not seeing yellow stains covering their white walls IMO.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh, my friend, but those are the very characteristics that make a pub so charming and warming to the heart

To be honest I suprised that Ontario and NY have had public smoking bans, is it a similar situation in many other Canadian and American states? In Britain it has been little more than a dream for many many years.

[QUOTE=Magrus]
My great aunt and uncle's own two Irish pubs here[/QUOTE]

Ahh, drinking runs in your veins

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Denethorn]Ahhh, my friend, but those are the very characteristics that make a pub so charming and warming to the heart

To be honest I suprised that Ontario and NY have had public smoking bans, is it a similar situation in many other Canadian and American states? In Britain it has been little more than a dream for many many years.



Ahh, drinking runs in your veins [/QUOTE]

Stained walls? Nah, I like walking into those pubs and seeing my family tree on the wall. That's warming to the heart. Getting plastered in a place with your dead ancesters pictures covering the wall.

And yes, yes it does run in my veins. Being able to down liters of liqour is definately a part of my Irish and German heritages. The hair and other things would be a part of my Italian heritage, and the temper and wild side would probably be the Irish too....I haven't found anyone besides my 400lb friend who can out drink me when I'm good and ready to go either.

[VonDondu]

California banned smoking in bars several years ago. The available data suggest that the health of bar employees has improved enormously (they call in sick less, they have lower medical expenses, and they say they feel better), and no lasting harm has been done to bar owners--in fact, they might be getting more business from nonsmokers. The health facts are indisputable, and the economic possibilities make sense. If 25% of the population smokes and a quarter of them boycott bars because they are offended by the ban, you're only talking about 6% of the population. I'd say at least a tenth of the nonsmoking population (7.5% of the general population) is like me and completely avoids bars where people smoke but would become regular bar partons if they didn't have to put up with noxious, obnoxious secondhand smoke. So business might actually improve as a result of the ban. The only people who are adversely affected by the ban are smokers (due to the suffering their cravings cause them, which in their own minds is more important than the health consequences) and the people who have to pick up cigarette butts outside the bars because smokers think the whole world is an ashtray.

[fable]

Massachusetts is a no-smoking-in-restaurants state. Many restauranteurs are very proud of this fact.

Signifcantly, Dublin (of all places) went no-smoking in all bars and pubs a few years back. Although there was an initial loss of revenue, within a year a large survey of publicans revealed that their clientele had returned. If they wanted to smoke, they simply went outside--or weather not permitting, stopped for the duration.

[Yeltsu]

Here in Norway smoking was banned from absolutely all resturans and indoor public places last year

[Luis Antonio]

I dont smoke.
I dont like cigars smoke.
I dont like people smoking near me.

So, in the end I'm pro to this smoking ban thing. Its healthy for everyone - I wont be a passive smoker, nor the cigar smoke will stink the towns. I'm sorry if you smoke, but it looks to me like some kind of slow suicide... My dad, thanks the Goddess, stopped smoking years ago. Nobody at home smokes. I'm happy with that.

[Brynn]

[QUOTE=Yeltsu]Here in Norway smoking was banned from absolutely all resturans and indoor public places last year[/QUOTE]
I'm moving there right now!

[Yeltsu]

YES! WOOHOO! HOORAY! ... heh, I mean, uhm, terrific

I don't really mind people who smoke though, it doesn't bother me, so it is none of my business. Of course, I understand that people with asthma have a problem with it.
I absolutely HATE snuff though, that looks horrible, and it smells like crap as well, I'd rather smoke than use snuff...

[Rob-hin]

I think this is all very childish.

First of all, I don't smoke and I don't like people smoking in bars and cafés. But what I dislike more is people telling others what to do.
If people want to smoke, let them. If there really is a nead for such bars, let the market do it itself, otherwise there simply is no need for such a bar.

Smoking should be probibited in government and healthcare buildings, but nowhere else. People who work in café and whine about the smoke should have gotten a different job, it's like that for all proffecions.

Smoking is probitited here too, except in bars... it;s even probibited on train stations in the open air. Ridiculous.

[Magrus]

I disagree there, on the grounds that being next to someone who smokes has a chance of giving me an asthma attack and risking death. If I were to have to wait for a train and someone was smoking, I'd go somewhere else to avoid it and risk missing my train because of it. Someone's offensive habit shouldn't rule MY life because of that.

When you could smoke in restuarants and such here, I'd up and leave if people started smoking near me. My parents both smoked and didn't get it, until I got into an argument with them and had a doctor back me up on the cause of my asthma, their smoking around me when I was little.

I've actually had people blow smoke in my face after I told them why I'm leaving, and ended up with a coughing fit so bad I couldn't walk away for a few minutes. I used to avoid going out to avoid situations like that.

[Brynn]

[QUOTE=Rob-hin]If people want to smoke, let them.[/QUOTE]
As long as the smoke doesn't reach my nostrils, it's OK.

[Cuchulain82]

Like Magrus said, in NYC smoking was recently banned and, IMO, it's been great. I hate going to visit my friends in other area where smoking isn't prohibited, because after I leave the bar with them all my clothes and my person reek of smoke. yuck! Both my parents were smokers when I was grow up though, so I have little symapthy.

@Rob

I don't like people telling me what to do either, but the truth is that smoking is, if nothing else, very unpleasant. Replace "smoking" in this thread with "passing gas" and you will probably think of things differently. No one likes when someone "passes gas" in a public place- it is rude and foul smelling. At least it isn't possibly carcinogenic.

[Magrus]

Yeah, I HATE going to parties at my friends house, and coming back feeling like I've been soaked in ash, tar and reeking of smoke. It's like I have to do one of those hazard suit strip-downs and shower thing to prevent my room from smelling like smoke for the rest of the week. It's nice not having to deal with that when I go out for a burger or shopping or the few times I've gone to a bar for a drink.

[Denethorn]

As I said, I'm all for a public smoking ban. And I understand that when you go shopping that you don't want to return home smelling to high heavens of second hand smoke . But when you go to a pub on the other hand... well you're going to leave with the characteristic smell of sloshed beer, and smoke only adds to that sweet aroma

Personally, when ever I'm with someone, even walking through the park, I will always ask if they mind if I smoke. Its sort of guilty respect "will you forgive me if I indulge my filthy habit" .

[fable]

[QUOTE=Brynn]As long as the smoke doesn't reach my nostrils, it's OK.[/QUOTE]

But in Budapest, with it's "non-smoking areas," just how do you avoid being covered outside and inside with cigarette fallout? Smoking is a favorite passtime, and smoke doesn't stay on its appropriate side of the restaurant. This has been a regular problem for us whenever we visited the beautiful city--though to be fair, the Netherlands and especially Germany were worse.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Rob-hin]I think this is all very childish.

First of all, I don't smoke and I don't like people smoking in bars and cafés. But what I dislike more is people telling others what to do.
If people want to smoke, let them. If there really is a nead for such bars, let the market do it itself, otherwise there simply is no need for such a bar.

Smoking should be probibited in government and healthcare buildings, but nowhere else. People who work in café and whine about the smoke should have gotten a different job, it's like that for all proffecions.

Smoking is probitited here too, except in bars... it;s even probibited on train stations in the open air. Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Thankfully, smoking is prohibited in all bars and restaurants where I live. It has been so for several years. The main driving force behind the ban is that the people working in them were being exposed to considerable secondhand smoke. Numerous cases involving former waiters/barkeeps etc. who had developed lung cancer as a result of constant exposure further bolstered the argument.

I do not care for excessive regulation of people's lives. However, there is a definite line. When your actions negatively impact the health and/or life of another you are not just poisoning your own body; therefore, it is no longer solely your own business.

Drunk driving is illegal because the lives of others are at stake. Given the direct correlations between smoking and various cancers (and apparently secondhand smoke is even more dangerous because those forced to inhale it don't have the benefit of filters), I don't see why the same set of rules that govern drunk driving shouldn't apply, at least to some extent.