Generation

Nestorius · Post by **Nestorius** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:34 am

I was wondering who your sire in the game can actually be killed by the Prince, having checked the amount of bloodpoints that the character has by doing disciplines several times it is clear that the character has 15 bloodpoints, that makes the character an eigth generation vampire and your sire a 7th. This kind of answers how come you can go through the game butchering everyone. Could there be another explanation or is it just troika creativity.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:56 am

I think that it is better not to apply PnP reasoning too strictly on the computer game. So let's call it Troika creativity (see also thread about game ending).

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:21 am

But certain discipline powers in the game cost blood points whereas in PnP they're free, eg Fortitude and Potence. Blood Buff buffs all your physical stats, whereas in the game you can select the stats to boost (thus saving blood).

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:27 pm

Yep...it's creativity....

You probably start as a kainite of 11th to 13th generation as you can't get any disciplines, attributes and skills over 5.

pennypincher · Post by **pennypincher** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:55 pm

Also, it makes little to no difference as to a persons generation as to if they can be killed... Espeicaly by a Prince with all the powers of the Cammerilla behind him, an huge angry Sherif, and a small team of Scourges who busted in the door with him.

Sorry, generation or not, when faced with those overwhelming odds, they are prolly just going to hold you down and beat you into torpor.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:35 am

Ultimately, the player character seems to be between 8th and 13th generation (based on stats, and the L.A. climate. There are few vampires below 8th generation in the city). My guess is that 9 to 11 is probably the most accurate. Keep in mind that this is L.A. The lower generation kindred were chased out of L.A. (or killed) during the Anarch revolts in the 1940s. For that matter, most of the kindred in the city are relatively young in terms of existence. So, it's a town where a newbie can really make a dent if they have some skill and a lot of gall. I think that's the premise that the developers were running with. Of course, for that matter, the player only does battle with a couple vampires who aren't of weaker blood than him/her anyway.

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:24 am

Cainite ? Generation ? Um ?

Btw - does this by a chance have anything to do with the "Thin Blood" thing ?

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:38 am

[QUOTE=Tenser]Cainite ? Generation ? Um ?

Btw - does this by a chance have anything to do with the "Thin Blood" thing ?

[/QUOTE]

lol

Cainite = Vampire, they usually don't use the term Vampire to describe themselves. It's either Cainite or Kindred ( Cainite comes from Caine/Cain the firstborn son of Adam and Eve, as he is the first vampire in Whitewolfs Vampire Mythology ).

Generation = How far you are removed from Caine. Everytime a Cainite embraces a new childe, the childe has one generation lower then the sire ( if your sire was of 10th generation, you will be of 11th ).

And yes...the Thin Blood Quest has something to do with it...Caintes of 14th and 15th generations are the so called Thin Bloods. They can't use their blood as effective as the other generation, some of them can't even create childer or ghouls. And those of the 15th generation can't even embrace new childer at all.
Thin Bloods are usually seen as Bad Omen ( there is a part in the Book of Nod that describes them as heralds of Gehenna, the last days of the vampires ) and are either hunted down or live at the edge of vampire society.

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:40 am

Hmm.

Well, that sounds rather stupid, to be honest

I however like many other parts of the "Vampire: The Masquerade" system. Such as 'you can bite people and they won't become vampires', or 'you shouldn't kill innocents or you will lose humanity', or the ghouls.

Makes a much cooler system like the usual stuff about it in other worlds - they are often loosing free will when becoming vampire (DnD: vampires are always chaotic evil), so they can't be player characters at all anyway.

pennypincher · Post by **pennypincher** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:12 pm

It SOUNDS pretty stupid at first, but I'll promise you this... It's a very clever mechanism for control of the game, power levels, setting and more in depth player character structures... It's a pitty Bloodlines skimed over it so vaugly.

Suffice to say, the less vampires bewteen you and Caine, the stronger and more powerful your blood... So while a young vampire has to use most of his blood pool to pump his stats right up, and Elder can pump them in 1/8 of the time and still have enough left over to use Celerity and Obtenerbration and Chimestry all at once if he/she/it so desires. The difference, when it comes to hand to hand is quite staggering... At least one vs one.

Fortunatly for younger vampires with lesser blood pools and Generation, the older vampires who are closer to Caine will often have little to no idea about "GAW 3.5 Belt fed Eliminator Chain Guns" and "LAW Fire and forget one shot rocket launchers"... And are usualy take quiet by suprise when the Neonate points the end of that strange, spinning metal tube at them before everything explodes into pain and gore...

Sadly, for any neonate whos decided it's time to point a chain gun at an Elder, Fortitude means never living long enough to have to call "Reload!!"

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:37 pm

Heh. Like Penny, I'm actually a big fan of the "generation" system.

However, as a storytelling device, the generation system is a great tool for helping your players realize that there is always something higher up on the food chain than they are. It's important to realize that in VtM the players are never really suppose to be "gods" (unlike many other roleplaying systems). They are suppose to always feel this sense of reality that they are raging against or playing with the constrains of a large jyhad.

What the generation system does, therefore, is establish the relatively permanent power gaps between the players and their sires/immediate elders in the Camarilla. And, for that matter, the power difference between your elders, and your elder's elders. Keep in mind you're dealing with vampires. So, you never really *move* up in the hierarchy. The average vampire stays perpetually in this entry level position you've taken. The players are suppose to feel the sense of frustration that breeds.

If you spend a lot of time with the pnp version of the game, you'll probably come to appreciate it. It really does help set the mood for the game. I was dissappointed that Vampire: the Requiem changed the system so radically in that aspect (essentially, its a much more relative factor now).

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:18 am

I've no problem with the "theres always someone bigger". I *LIKE* the idea of vampires being weak at the beginning and becoming more and more powerful over the centuries. Thats also a "theres always someone bigger" thing.

But I consider the whole caine thing not fun. There shouldn't be any such thing as Dracula, Caine or any other "first vampire". First vampire just appeared sometimes long ago, long before history started. Even less, there should not be any bible reference, thats a too heavy weight for my taste.

I do not like the concept of having the vampire curse changing over time. It should always be the same.

BTW, I had met one Vampire the Masquerade PnP Roleplayer once, and he told me that one can increase the Generation by sucking a vampire of that generation empty.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:57 am

[QUOTE=Tenser]I do not like the concept of having the vampire curse changing over time. It should always be the same.[/QUOTE]
And it does always stay the same. If you are 10th gen vampire you have 13 bloodpoints and maximum of 5 dots in any stat. And those will remain the same after as long as you are considered 10th gen, regardless of actual time you spend as a vampire. Those stats will change only if you become 9th gen.
Learning additional powers within a discipline and raising your abilities and knowledge represent passage of time and things you learn in that time.

[QUOTE=Tenser]BTW, I had met one Vampire the Masquerade PnP Roleplayer once, and he told me that one can increase the Generation by sucking a vampire of that generation empty.[/QUOTE]
Yes you can diablerize older vampire and increase your generation, but unsanctioned Diablerie is considered highest crime among Kindred and if caught you will be executed. And any vampire with acces to Auspex will know you commited diablerie while reading your aura for one year after the dead is done so you will get caught.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:57 am

[QUOTE=Tenser]BTW, I had met one Vampire the Masquerade PnP Roleplayer once, and he told me that one can increase the Generation by sucking a vampire of that generation empty.[/QUOTE]

It's mentioned in the game, its called diablerie... and forbidden by those capes of the Camarilla of course (since they are prime targets).