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I'm trying to figure out how to build a monk X (lets assume we want one and we're not going to argue that a sorc X is better...)

Ok so a couple of things I DO know...

#1 I AM PLAYING IN NORMAL MODE ONLY. THERES NO SUCH THING AS 200 HP GOBLINS 1,2,3. (REPEAT 3 TIMES AND THEY DISAPPEAR)...
int and char are useless for a warrior monk. If you min/max (and thats what this thread is about) what stats do you build towards as you level and what stats do you start the game?

I'm going to narrow the discussion to what is important to me...

I have a half - orc monk... I know deep gnomes and other races are also good but for the biography of my character it has to be half-orc

What stats?

I have the weidu fist weapon finesse mod so I could build a dexer...
*fists base damage is so high so you don't lose a lot of damage relatively (I mean at upper levels..before then short sword is ok).
*ac
*AB
*evasion save
*missile weapons (darts, axes etc)

I could max out wisdom and be stunner with good ac...
*ac
*will save
*stun DC

I could max out the con and have lots of HP...
*fortitude save
*HP

Or (and the half - orc is unique in having extra str) I could pump strength and have a true basher...
*AB
*damage: melee and throwing (not X bow etc)
*would help at early levels when fists aren't high base damage and # attacks doesn't compensate for low AB (as much)
*Would also be good at bashing chests open

So if you have an opinion based on (or not) experience just let me know...

Please don't say "don't take a monk! no half-orc! Barb better! Only mixins!"
I am definately going with half-orc monk X

cheers,

myrophine

Not that I approve of min-maxing but here goes...

STR 20
DEX 18
CON 16
INT 01
WIS 18
CHA 01

CON = 16 because in theory he should be getting damaged less than other warrior types. However make sure you keep him liberally buffed and I advise purchasing the Ring of Mage Armour from Ulbrec's wife.

STR = 20 Dont use the Weimar Mod (its good if you're planning a halfling monk +2 DEX, -2 STR) but half-orcs are the only race to gain a STR bonus.

I'm actually in the process of planning out my next party ... sadly no half-orcs, gladly no monks (yay! )

I would generally approve of those stats, though I might suggest dropping STR by one or two points and increasing CON.
Even if a monk isn't supposed to be hit, extra HP always turns out to be a benefit in my case.

OK I take your point about hit points but wouldn't that be ignoring the only racial advantage the half-orc has?

I'd always played monks using hit and run type tactics, letting heavily armoured fighters, paladns, barbarians soak up the damage, while the monk strikes and then moves never letting him get bogged down in melee. Maybe thats where I'm going wrong!

To be honest I'm not a huge fan of monks, so Myro you will probably do better taking Ravager's advice.

I'm not saying completely ignore the bonus, just that you should make a well-balanced party. Sometimes it's worth sacrificng a bonus for that and anyway 19 STR is still good.

half-orc monk stats

I approve of Raven Song's build - the only real min-max, non-roleplaying reason to take a half-orc monk is for the strength potential. With 20 Str, it will be one of your better tanks - but with "only" 16 Con and none of the racial goodies of a drow or svirfneblin, expect to need healing on a regular basis. This monk should be buffed to the gills - especially with Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength (or better), Protection From Evil, etc. Once your party is capable of casting Stoneskin on him, it will get better.

Make sure you take sling as your ranged weapon (or axe, come to think of it). A ranged weapon that allows damage bonus combined with 20 Str is frightening.

what is this character's biography. y does it hav to be a half orc?

Myro just wants a half-orc. It should do just fine - although race-wise it will lag behind deep gnomes and drow for prowess as a monk. A dwarf might be better too (saves). A svirfneblin makes the best decoy, but any monk is acceptable as kind of a "light cavalry" type of fighter. A half-orc with maxed strength gives the monk more "punch" (pun intended) than your typical monk.

I say, take the extra strength; the character will be a killer with some strength spells, and even without. +5 damage to every hit, with the extra attacks of a monk, is pretty good. Monks have a pretty good AC already, and if you have a decent number of spellcasters, they can buff up the AC of any monk to a tankable level. Min/maxing for best AC helps too. Less Con just requires paying a bit more attention to the character (in contrast to a buffed deep gnome monk, which is fully capable of avoiding all damage while occupying half a dozen melee fighters while the rest of your crew chops them up or bombs them).

[QUOTE=Ravager]I would generally approve of those stats, though I might suggest dropping STR by one or two points and increasing CON.
Even if a monk isn't supposed to be hit, extra HP always turns out to be a benefit in my case. [/QUOTE]

imho this is a step in the wrong direction.

con is nice at the same time an increase of 2 con and taking a hit of 2 str lessens the damage on every hit, and makes it less likely to hit, and provides a max of 30 hp increase at 30th level, seeing as how this is only supposed to be a regular mode game, were are looking at a net increase of maybe 20 hit points. just not worth it.

it would be interesting to hear exactlly what kind of role you see this pc in. to me he looks like the ideal "inbetweener" using darts / thrown axes and ready to charge into melee as need be, but at the same time not the main tank. by putting all points into hide / move he should also be a decent scout.

also planning on how to spend the ability score points as the monk advances... i'd likely put spread points between str dex and wis odd points if need be (since quite often stat buffs will also be odd.

--

Raven_Song's build is the way to go (if min max) if you are going for a more "role-play" distribution, then some cuts need to be made, and you will have to decide

something like:

str 14
dex 15
con 10
int 12
wis 17
cha 6

dex and wis - the odd points serve two functions, they can be either "rounded off" w/ level ups, or buffs.

str 14 still has power attack in range still get slight bonus to hit and damage.

con 10. base stat could be flipped w/ int.

int 12 gives the ability to increase 3 skills / level (hide, move + other)

cha 6 there is really not much you can do here, to raise it any you are cutting something very vital.

I bow to your collective experiences.

High CON is just a general direction I take in these games, but I agree that STR does play a large part too, especially with melee characters.

The character has to be a backup for quite a lot of time, due to a weakness when compared to fighter etc. Eventually though the abilities of the monk do shine though.

On the whole I agree with you but for this specific build STR is probably slightly more of a priority than CON as the monk is pretty much limited to physical and ranged attacks.

no what i meant is what is this characters storyline?

As it is a custom creation the half-orc isn't going to have a storyline of it's own (like the default parties). However, I think myro was going for something like this:

Also this is a monk of the black raven monastery.. 2nd generation descendant of a duergar slave (orc) and black raven monk (adventurous being I guess?).. So its gotta be half-orc folks!!

That's what he said, anyway. Wonder where he is?

@ Raven Song, Ravager, Aerich, and Koz-ivan

Thank you for your advice. I sort of agree with everyone and would like to lower my int and char to 0!!! (gaining con and strength)

Seriously, I played a little bit with a "rounded" all 18s (well relevant stats) character but if I replay the battles (ugh hate the fedex quests) I will try 20s.

My reason is that I probably will use this character as an axe thrower (ret bludgeoning, +4 ret shock, and cloudkiss). Also a character who can run to where a body is needed and chime in fast.

Remember I'm still playing normal so IMO its pretty easy (well with max HP at regular difficulty) So basicly I could have the monk running around with a +1 dagger and still beat the game probably...

@ammama

Heres the story

Cast of Chars -

Ahzmos ?forgot? - a deep gnome rogue/illusionist merchant who is kind of crazy with components of compassion and also GREED. He makes a deal with a drow PIT FIGHTER to reveal information about a rival house (to sell the information) in return for freedom. Deal goes haywire but drow is freed anyways.

Ebed Abajim - drow slave and blossoming pitfighter. Ruthless killer with some amount of attractive qualities/loyalty. Goes with Ahzmos to escape.

They go to Black Raven Monastery where they are going to be kicked out...
but Half-Orc, Gwuenocloc, points out that the founder was in similar straights.

Gwuenocloc - the moral and kind half-orc monk warrior. Offspring of a orc slave (to the duergar) who escaped and...well I don't know why humans and orcs fraternize with each other but I could tell a story about my ex and a...hmm maybe I should stop there.

Godian Batori - Paladin Inquisitor of Helm who is visiting the black raven monastery (sent from Brynn Shandar to investigate). He uncovers Ebed Abajims nature and background but is rebuffed by Gwuenocloc. Instead of taking the drow to Brynn Shandar for indentured servitude the 4 make a pact and decide to heed Targos's call for help (Godian has enough leeway from order to try and help a fellow ten-town). Helm is later pleased and he shifts to being a cleric of helm.

Meanwhile...

Greyda Kirstov - is a budding sorceress with the hosttower. She is actually concealing her sorcery talents and receiving training as a mage. But she peaks in the library for hints to her powers. She dissaproves of the evil of the hosttower as well but mainly wants to develope her art. This explains why a sorceress might have high intelligence, lore, alchemy, etc...

She escapes narrowly and is on the streets of Luskan. She stumbles on Targos's offer.

Teira Halsen - an evil tracker (ranger) who the hosttower hires as a bounty hunter to track down Greyda (alive.... they want to study her).

However, the Hosttower should have screened the agent more clearly! Actually she is a double agent (of the church of mask) who has been relating to the hosttower to make contacts. She would like to relocate to icewind dale as well to investigate some stirrings of two cambions normally involved in the blood war. Mask is pleased and she becomes a cleric.

Their boat is overturned and the pair of flailing (and freezing) bodies are hauled onto another boat by the strong arms of Gwuenocloc.

So we have a lot of personalities vying for leadership of the party (or at least control if not "leadership")

myro