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In my years of gaming, I have always had a tendency to come up with some of the most bizzare combinations and tactics. The other night I was thinking (painful as that is sometimes): What would happen if a Sorcerer wanted to take a couple levels as a Wizard? How would his spell progression go? What sort of rules would there be in this instance?

Going by the game rules, you'd keep track seperately. If you were a 5th level Sorceror, adding 1 level of Wizard, you would have spells as a 5th level sorcerer normally, and then keep track of seperately the spells you have access to as a wizard and how many you can cast per day.

I find it to be strange however. IMHO I think it would be more logical to do something along the lines of when going from Sorcerer-> Wizard, you slowly gain more spells known to add into your Sorcerer spell list at the cost of less spells per day. Wizard->Sorcerer, you should slowly filter in extra spells/level/day for casting than normal, and be unable to gain new spells that level. Something along those lines. More of a meshing of the two similar types of knowledge than seperating the two.

Magrus is right, you have to keep track of two spell 'pools'. Your familiar does advance according to the sum of the wiz and sorc levels, though.

isn't there a prc for this combination?there is the mystic theurgist for cleric-arcane so why not one for the arcane classes only?

I don't think there is a prestige class for it. But there are some feats that allow the Wizard to take some spells as the sorcerer do and vica versa.

[QUOTE=sithari]isn't there a prc for this combination?there is the mystic theurgist for cleric-arcane so why not one for the arcane classes only?[/QUOTE]

There isn't one. But you could change the Mystic Theurge to apply to wizard and sorcerer levels, instead of wizard and cleric.

[QUOTE=Magrus]

I find it to be strange however. IMHO I think it would be more logical to do something along the lines of when going from Sorcerer-> Wizard, you slowly gain more spells known to add into your Sorcerer spell list at the cost of less spells per day...More of a meshing of the two similar types of knowledge than seperating the two.[/QUOTE]


I like this idea better. If it ever really comes up, I might try it.

[QUOTE=AarronIkarus]What would happen if a Sorcerer wanted to take a couple levels as a Wizard?[/QUOTE]

I don't really see this as an effective combination. You'd be giving up a lot in the way of spell progression, for no gain whatsoever IMHO. At lower levels, the sorcerer can already cast a lot of spells (albeit from a limited pool), so adding more low level spells to the pot really isn't going to gain you much. On the other hand, at higher levels, the character would be hampered by low level spells.

If you wanted to keep equal spell progression for both classes, but didnt mind losing 20% XP every encounter, you should consider using the Gestalt variant from unearthed arcana, where you pick 2 classes in this case scorcerer and wizard. now at lv 1 and each level thereafter you use the best hit dice, base attack bonus and fort, ref, and will saves, aswell as gaining all special abilities of each class. For example if you were a Gestalt barbarian/scorcerer at lv 1 you would have D12 HD, +1 base attack bonus, +2 Fortitude, +0 Reflex, and +2 will save. you would also have Fast Movement, Barbarian Rage 1/day, summon familiar and spells of a lv 1 scorcerer. You would have skill points equal to 4+ INT modifier x4, class skills being all available to a barbarian and a scorcerer.

in complete mage their is acutely a class that puts both casting classes up...as well as a bunch of other crazy stuff...its very fun and powerful.
My one friend used this class to make a conjuror, their was never a time he did not have a summon monster not in play.

VII wrote:If you wanted to keep equal spell progression for both classes, but didnt mind losing 20% XP every encounter, you should consider using the Gestalt variant from unearthed arcana, where you pick 2 classes in this case scorcerer and wizard. now at lv 1 and each level thereafter you use the best hit dice, base attack bonus and fort, ref, and will saves, aswell as gaining all special abilities of each class. For example if you were a Gestalt barbarian/scorcerer at lv 1 you would have D12 HD, +1 base attack bonus, +2 Fortitude, +0 Reflex, and +2 will save. you would also have Fast Movement, Barbarian Rage 1/day, summon familiar and spells of a lv 1 scorcerer. You would have skill points equal to 4+ INT modifier x4, class skills being all available to a barbarian and a scorcerer.

that is so broken and ridiculous

norforfnorn wrote:that is so broken and ridiculous

It is meant to be that way. It was meant particularly for small gaming groups. That way, if you have only say, 2 players, each players characters are more powerful to offest their lack of allies. In the end, it doesn't really change the power level of the characters that much. I think the general alteration is somewhere between a +1-3 increase in LA/CR for the character, depending on the level and combination. There's no set and true method, but a +2 should be relatively decent.

Meaning your gestalt Barb/Wiz at 5th level should be about the same power as a straight Wiz of 7th or 8th level. Which, equates roughly to a party of 2 gestalt characters being not far below matching the strength of a standard 4 person party, and 3 of them being just above a standard 4 person party. It saves the DM from having to run a DM controlled NPC, or the players having to handle dealing with multiple characters.

VII wrote:If you wanted to keep equal spell progression for both classes, but didnt mind losing 20% XP every encounter, you should consider using the Gestalt variant from unearthed arcana, where you pick 2 classes in this case scorcerer and wizard. now at lv 1 and each level thereafter you use the best hit dice, base attack bonus and fort, ref, and will saves, aswell as gaining all special abilities of each class. For example if you were a Gestalt barbarian/scorcerer at lv 1 you would have D12 HD, +1 base attack bonus, +2 Fortitude, +0 Reflex, and +2 will save. you would also have Fast Movement, Barbarian Rage 1/day, summon familiar and spells of a lv 1 scorcerer. You would have skill points equal to 4+ INT modifier x4, class skills being all available to a barbarian and a scorcerer.

You wouldn't incur an XP penalty though, doesn't say that at all.

And to be honest, even if I were to allow gestalt in a campaign, I most definitely wouldn't allow a Gestalt Barbarian/Wizard, that makes no sense whatsoever. Even if the book says differently, if you go by the rules of gestalt, you gain ALL the features of the class and nowhere on the wizard class ability does it say you gain "literacy." Thus starting off as a gestalt barb/wiz will not work whatsoever.

Oh, and that class in complete mage that combines sorc and wizard, not only is that broken beyond anything in the game, it's also just about the dumbest idea I've ever seen...considering a sorcerer and wizards view on spellcasting are near the opposite. Sorcs are about emotion and spontinaety, wizards are about calculations, formula's and equality.

It's good to be creative buit it's really hard to duel class a spellcaster.
Only a prestige class where his spellcasting progres continues as normal is really interesting. Otherwise you are really cripping your character, interesting as it may be roleplaying wise.

Rob-hin wrote:It's good to be creative buit it's really hard to duel class a spellcaster.
Only a prestige class where his spellcasting progres continues as normal is really interesting. Otherwise you are really cripping your character, interesting as it may be roleplaying wise.

Indeed, but not to worry because wizards of the coast has created a BUNCH of splat books that contain every possible combo spellcasting class there is.

Arcane/Divine
Manifester/Arcane
Manifester/Divine
Druid/Bard (yes, they actually have this, just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen)
Invocation/Arcane
Invocation/Divine
Infusion/Arcane
Infusion/Manifester
Necromancer/Cleric
Arcane/Arcane
And with complete champion to come out soon, I hear there's going to be a Divine/Divine prestige class that progresses in both say druid and cleric spellcasting levels.

The ONLY one of those that is plausible to me is the Mystic Theurge (arcane/Divine), otherwise it's just getting repetitive and unbalanced.

Siberys wrote:Indeed, but not to worry because wizards of the coast has created a BUNCH of splat books that contain every possible combo spellcasting class there is.

Arcane/Divine
Manifester/Arcane
Manifester/Divine
Druid/Bard (yes, they actually have this, just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen)
Invocation/Arcane
Invocation/Divine
Infusion/Arcane
Infusion/Manifester
Necromancer/Cleric
Arcane/Arcane
And with complete champion to come out soon, I hear there's going to be a Divine/Divine prestige class that progresses in both say druid and cleric spellcasting levels.

The ONLY one of those that is plausible to me is the Mystic Theurge (arcane/Divine), otherwise it's just getting repetitive and unbalanced.

ya missed one
the psychic theurge its divine/psychic
and im sure your probably gonna say that it has nothing to do with divine and arcane but w/e

norforfnorn wrote:ya missed one
the psychic theurge its divine/psychic
and im sure your probably gonna say that it has nothing to do with divine and arcane but w/e

But....that's fact what you said, why would I argue? Psionics are NOT arcana, and a divine/psychic class has nothing to do with arcane magic. Really, why would I argue with you on that?