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Since the birth of fast food, and cable TV, not to mention the internet the world has been getting fatter. What is your view of this?
I had and idea: the USA, should pass a law that regulates the price of food. For example: a double hamburger from McDonalds has about 500 calories, it costs $1! A bag of salad has probably about 50 for the whole bag, yet it costs like $3.50! So, if you take the cost of the production of the food, then, you would make say a bottle of water to cost MUCH less than a bottle of coke. Get it?
I thought it made sense. This would make more families eat vegtables, and healthy foods, rather than cheap junk food.

Actually, the idea of a higher price, in this case higher tax, for unhealthy products, have been discussed in Sweden where I live. Sweden in No 3 in the world on the obesity list (no 1 is the US, no 2 the UK) and obesity-related diseases costs society more than alcohol- and tobacco-related disease. Since there is a very high tax on alcohol and tobacco here for availibility reasons, a likewise high tax on high fat and high sugar products have been discussed. Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea. Availability is certainly only one of many factors that affect people's consumption patterns, but it is demonstrated in scientific studies that price and availability has an effect, so why no use that effect at unhealthy food as well as unhealthy drugs?

The problem is is that it would still be just as expensive to be healthy as it would be to be unhealthy.

To buy freeze dried 6 week old strawberries in a small contaiuner costs more than 3 bucks. Around 3.50. The good stuff from the Okanagan costs about the same, but still. For the price of that small packet of strawberries, I can buy 3 or 4 chocolate bars. Which do I consider a better deal?

Anyways, the populations of the above countries are addicted to the lifestyles they have chosen. even if it cost the same, many would go for the chocolate bar, rather than apples. I have to admit, that yes, I am one of those few people out there who does not like cookies or chocolate... the smells get to me, for some reason. It gives me an advantage over others.

The idea for food tax has been aergued in Canada as well, however they decided to drop the issue. They would rather try and conmvicne the population to take up an active lifestyle, instead of cutting back on saturated fats. Makes you really wonder how many people already suffer from Lordosis? Especially since little work is done to improve the matter...

IIRC, I think most European and Western countries have had some problem with weight issues. Excluding south America... they are in much better condition in these cases...

Many people will also blame herediatry. It doesnt matter if someones dad was fat. He most likely was unhealthy. Although people do have varying circulations, and heart rates, ect, usually those eating habits correspond to what your body is capable of digesting. Or what your body would be ingesting if you still ate what was native to your homeland. Don;t use genetics as an excuse. If that was true, I would have grown to how my mom was, when she had an unhealthy weight. However, look... when my mom began bulging, around my age, it was hardly noticeable, yet I have no bulghed at all... I have gotten thinner. something that my brother and I have in common, yet our parents do not.

EDIT- Not to say that genetics play no role at all... just not as much as people presume... a very small role...

In Sweden, there has been a beneficial effect on the sky high taxes on tobacco. Sweden has one of the lowest smoking rates in the world if you count daily smokers, but a very large number of people are occational smokers. Cigarettes have become more like cigars, an occational drug you enjoy after a good dinner or together with a glass of whisky or cognac.

Obesitas is a growing problem also in many countries who had a swift finacial development like China and Thailand. About 20% of the Chinese population now lives in the cities, and obesity, especially among men and children, have exploded.

Oh, and I agree completely with Hill about people using genetics as an excuse. Nowdays, popular media report every week there is a gene for this and that, but in fact, genetics play a much smaller role than lifestyle even if it plays a role. I think many people are attracted to the idea that it's not their own fault, it's not their own responsibility, "my genes made me do it" sort of thinking. Genetic or social determinism plays the role of removing individual responsibility.

While I really like the idea in principle... there is something to bear in mind. A lot of people in low income brackets buy Mc Doos because it is cheap and filling.

A focus on "healthy eating" and scratch cooking tends to be very much a middle class phenomenon. (no, I'm not suggesting that all less wealthy people exclusively eat junk food, but studies indicate that many do). So... IMO, any move like this would need to include a massive public education campaign dealing with how to prepare nutritious, inexpensive meals.

*shakes my head* It is MUCH cheaper to eat junk food in the US than healthy food. You can go with bread, and rice, and pasta to eat cheap yes, but that's just grains. To get fresh fruit and vegetables, meat, cheese, etc, the things that are healthy for you are a lot more expensive than getting food that is bad for you. I work at McDonald's, and I get a 50% discount. Even without it, you can get a good bit of food for a decent price there, which is positively HORRIBLE for you. The comment about water is a good one as well. I can get a 2 liter of Coke for $2.19 at a gas station. I can get a 20 oz bottle of water for $1.29, hmm, will I go for the cheaper Coke with a great taste, or the expensive water?

As far as genetics, a lot of people use this as an excuse yes, however, the fact is that certain people do have metabolisms, or health problems that prevent them from losing weight without an enormous amount of effort put into it. My metabolism was destroyed by faulty medications and idiot doctors, it just does not work as it used to. Given the problems with my neck, I cannot exercise outside a few things, like walking or jogging without terrible pain being involved. This leads to me being overweight, and to fix that, I need to spend money I do not have to buy certain foods, and spending a few hours a day simply walking in order to lose weight. If I spent an extra $40 a week on groceries, and spent an extra 3 hours a day walking around town, sure I'd lose weight. I just do not have the cash for that, and the time involved isn't something I'm willing to devote without the proper diet available.

As far as I know, there is a negative correlation between educational level and income level, and obesitas, in all Western countries. People with a lower income and a lower education eat more unhealthy food and exercise less, whereas in in developing countries the correlation is positive because the poor people still don't have access to unhealthy food and they still do a lot of physical work. Information, like price and availability, is also one factor that affects people's behaviour patters although not as much as one would hope...

Maybe this can help the situation? If you can't stop people from eating the junk food they love, then make the junk food more healthy?

To download the full article, choose the pdf or html version in the menu to the right.

Also, another big problem is food that is laden with all kinds of chemical additives and trans fats. I know I read somewhere that some of these chemicals interfere with metabolism. I've been trying to find the information, but I can't lay my hands on it right now.

So, IMO, the big issue is how how many processed, additive-filled foods people eat.

We are fairly health conscious, but we certainly eat our share of high fat, high carb meals. The difference is that they are all made from scratch with pure ingredients. We get a modest amount of exercise, but we aren't fanatics about it.. yet neither my partner, myself, nor or our son are overweight.

I do not have the time to read the entire article, sorry, CE. However, I can see where you are going with this.

I have heard of this ALginate theory before... seeing as Ive been to Asia countless times, I can see how they lead much healthier lifestyles.

Problems above are such things like we do not have a stable market here in Canada, nor where you are in Sweden. We would have to import, which costs money. Not only that, but addicting tastes and the emulsifying afgents may have unforseen effects on the creation of the factory burgers that they use. It could very well destroy the grease concentratrions, or take away something that makes all humans, except for those darn lucky few, addicted to them.

Ill post more later... to be truthful I have not given many debates much thought lately... I am much to busy with these lovely Koreans (who are finally slackening their grips on my life, apparently, although I have seen no effect ).

*shakes my head* It is MUCH cheaper to eat junk food in the US than healthy food.

3 for the fact that it is too expensive so far.

As far as genetics, a lot of people use this as an excuse yes, however, the fact is that certain people do have metabolisms, or health problems that prevent them from losing weight without an enormous amount of effort put into it. My metabolism was destroyed by faulty medications and idiot doctors, it just does not work as it used to. Given the problems with my neck, I cannot exercise outside a few things, like walking or jogging without terrible pain being involved. This leads to me being overweight, and to fix that, I need to spend money I do not have to buy certain foods, and spending a few hours a day simply walking in order to lose weight. If I spent an extra $40 a week on groceries, and spent an extra 3 hours a day walking around town, sure I'd lose weight. I just do not have the cash for that, and the time involved isn't something I'm willing to devote without the proper diet available.

Yes, people do have lower metabolisms. But considering where these peoples roots come from, it does not surprise me. Eskimos have no circulation, it keeps extra fat on their bodies. Same with scotsmen. Even in the dead of winter we would dance around in our kilts with no top... woman not wearing much more. Its all of where our roots are from.

consider this... would a native lady eat as much iff it was still what she would usually eat. No. Would she exercise more? Yes. Does this effect anything? No. I do not have time to exercise that often. I can get by, and by all means, I should have packed on 500 pounds, from what I am eating. Lately, however, I have eaten whatever I can get my hands on. A muffin, a hamburger, ity doesnt matter. what scares me is when a couple will go past that cheap bakery to buy something from McDonalds.

I mean, I cook better burgers from beef itself, and I rather enjoy it.

Subs as well. Costs incredibly little, especially once you get the meat from the market. I also make homemade pizza. Tastes great, espeically when you dont have pools of grease and fat on your plate.

I, however, sympathize in Mags case. He is injured. He has no time for things such as exercise. however, he should probably cut back on the drinking. If buddy doesnt srink itall. sounds like the cat keeps him active too...

Genes mean nothing. Everyone can lead a healthy lifestyle. Unless you are injured or incapable, as listed above. Just instead stop at the baskery, or at that mom and pop fruit stall, instead of passing them on the way to Wendys.

And I promise Ill read the article later.

Also, another big problem is food that is laden with all kinds of chemical additives and trans fats. I know I read somewhere that some of these chemicals interfere with metabolism. I've been trying to find the information, but I can't lay my hands on it right now.

You would be surprised how many different sciences are involved in Macdonalds hambugers. they have geneticists, chemistrs, and numerous others they have working towards the perfect marketable hamburger.

It makes it harder for the metabolism, as all of a sudden, everything is plugged or strained. It may have other effects as well... who knows whats in your bloodstream?

We are fairly health conscious, but we certainly eat our share of high fat, high carb meals. The difference is that they are all made from scratch with pure ingredients. We get a modest amount of exercise, but we aren't fanatics about it.. yet neither my partner, myself, nor or our son are overweight.

People in Calgary are not overweight, even though we do not eat out as little as we should. We are all incredibly active, however. You lead what is known as a healthy lifestyle. Carbs are good for you. keep up your current diet. Being a crunchy granola yourself, you should find this easy.

[QUOTE=hill1]Carbs are good for you.[/QUOTE]

Utter nonsense. Everyone processes things in slight variations. Carbs are horrible for my weight. I can go without them without any significant problems, while if I go without some form of meat, I feel ill feel irritable and have a significant drop in energy. Which is why so many people try those wonder diets and fail, people need to know what it is their body needs.

[QUOTE=Magrus]Utter nonsense. Everyone processes things in slight variations. Carbs are horrible for my weight. I can go without them without any significant problems, while if I go without some form of meat, I feel ill feel irritable and have a significant drop in energy. Which is why so many people try those wonder diets and fail, people need to know what it is their body needs.[/QUOTE]

Carbs are more than just poundage, Magrus, although you are different in this case. Although, different kinds of carbs and how you get them differs greatly from person to person. It does notmatter how you get them, but the fact that you are getting them, and in the right amounts.

Those wonder diets make you give up carbs. That is bad. It kills energy.

Unless I have misinterpreted the above...

Everyone needs a certain amount of various things. Yet, each individual is in need of varying amounts. Myself, I don't need carbs as much as say, you would. I do however have a need for high amounts of protein. Perhaps the fats found in meat is what I need instead of fats found in other foods. I'm not sure, I do know that I feel healthier on a diet of meat and vegetable high foods rather than high with carbs.

Any "diet" that claims to work that denies you a certain type of food is lying, and chances are hurting you in some way. Anyone who believes in the things should do some research on the subject before paying for it.

Most people here probably know this and I'm going off bad memory here but...

Carbohydrates provide short term energy (no not like sugar), that can be used an hour or two later. That's why pasta and bread are good for athletes as a pre-game/event meal - all that stored energy can be released over the course of a competition.

If carbs aren't used however, eventually they do become fat, which is why there's a negative stigma surrounding it. That was the concept behind the Atkins diet - no carbs and no exercise means no problem. It didn't work as we now know. He was right about one thing though: everyday people don't need as much carbs as say, an athlete, because everyday people don't expend as much energy.

Protein/mean repairs muscle, I can't remember at this moment what else it does. Over time however, it doesn't become fat, that much I know.

For the most part, vegetables and fruit leave behind vitamins and nutrients, but generally very little carbs and protein. That's why they're pretty important. Those nutrients are good for your body, etc. etc.

Fat itself isn't necessarily bad, it's trans fat. Fat is used as long term energy and are eaten into once the carbs are used up. That's why marathoners, triathletes and rowers have lower body fat - they train for extremely extended periods of time, which is when their fat is eaten into.

I can't remember what's so bad about trans fat, but I believe it has something to do with the processing of it that makes it bad for the body. What I do know is that McDonalds' (and fast foods in general) foods contain a lot of trans fat, which is why there's a lot of adverse effects from eating it for a long term. It's not necessarily the carbs (which can sort of be bad), the calories (a measure of energy), the protein, or the fat that's the problem, it's the trans fat. Note, I'm not completely sure about the exact facts, most of this stuff is coming from my knowledge which is probably really incomplete and unreliable.

However, it's already been mentioned that healthier foods tend to cost more and it's less convenient to go out and buy these in addition to exercising the right amount - the world's too high stress for that stuff for your average joe.

This isnt exactly verbose, but here it goes.

@ Magrus: Exactly.

@The Z: I skimmed over your post, mostly cause it made snese. Hence; Exactly.

@Hill,
I'm not a crunchy granola, I'm a food purist, there's a difference
If I were a crunchy granola I'd be a vegan, be constantly extolling the virtues of soymilk, wear dreadlocks, and have an entire wardrobe consisting of tie-dyed clothing.

*cough* None of the above is the case.

More or less back on subject... I have to admit, I've always been sceptical of the Atkins diet. To my mind, it seems profoundly unbalanced to entirely cut carbs out of your daily food intake.
But... I do think that different body types respond differently to different foods and diets... so it's likely I'm not in a position to comment.

On the contrary. You make perfect sense, DW. Atkins dioets rarely work. Usually these woman have little need for Carb intake because of what they do all day long. As stay at home moms with a slighjtly different twist, these woman sit on their butts all day and do nothing but watch soap operas.

I know that is being general, but it does kind of make sense.

And now for some minor off topic babble:

Cruchys are not known for being hippies, theymainly like to commune with nature, make no waste, death to the oil industry kind of people. People who own thermal underwear by the set at about $100 each. Who carry around their lifes on their back. who bielieve in the spirit of nature... ect, ect.

In a word, you. With a little tweaking of course.

Back on topic:

I know what my diet consists of. Mainly carbohydrates and a large amount of Vitamens from a variety ofr sources. not as much calcium, my bone marrow already provides large enough quantities that the milk mostly passes through my system. I am sure that there are people out there who have almost no reserves in their bones, so require a lot of Calcium.

Stay away from those strategic cutting diets. they are no good and the models are paid to say what they say. They also have years of experience with yoyo weights and diesting, and most likely work out more than the rest of us too...

But even if the price is expensive, people will buy it because they want to eat it. Also, others would argue against it and it would never work.

However, I do not think that food is the problem. The main thing with eating fatty food is you get more energy, which if you don't burn off, it is converted to fat. Also, you are absorbing straight fat too, and you have to work hard to burn that off.

So the problem is the fact that these people aren't burning the sugars. They drive to work, take the elevator, sit at the desk and email people instead of talking direct to them, order dinner through the drive through, then watch TV with the food.

Lifestyle is the issue, not the food. If people start burning the sugars, then once all of that is burnt, the body starts burning fat, which in turn causes you to lose weight. So we don't need to regulate food, we need to promote healthy lifestlyes.

By the way, this is extremely important down here in Aus, because I think we are first on the childhood obesity, which is where we really need to encourage physical activities to help these kids.

Changing lifestyles would indeed be very important. Though I'm affraid that just taking the bike to work, and walking more, won't make up for all the heavy fat you're getting at the fast food restaurants. Someone once told me that you have to run an entire Marathon in order to make up for the Big Mac you just ate. Don't know if that's true, but what probably is true that you have to do very much excercising to create a balance.

Still, I think it would be very important if these people changed their lifestyle, nonetheless. Getting on the bike as often as possible would not only be healthier, it would be also better for the environment and cheaper too, since you pay less for gas, which is apparently at the moment higher then ever (I wouldn't know, we don't have a car) Then with more excercise, people might realise how bad the junkfood is their eating; though that isn't for sure, since they also might think that they can go right ahead, since they easily make up for it on the bike...

IMO...there are a lot of reasons why people are overweight.In certain places it could be bad to live in a low income neighborhood(not to point the obvious)because the food industry elites will actually set up more fast food restaurants near you than they normally would around a higher income neighborhood. Thats why you see more liquor stores and fast food places around there a lot because its cheaper

Also the amount of food you consume is important. Carbs are good, because the body needs it, but too much and your body starts storing it up as fat for when it needs to feed off of it.You know the saying too much of a good thing is bad for you. Your metabolizism can play a key roll. My metabolizism is high so I get to eat anything I want and I dont gain weight, but am not lazy I work out with weights on a daily bases. People these days dont exercise enough and if they do they set their expectations too high, Rome was not built in a night. Also when dieting your body goes into shock and actual creates its own fat so it does not starve off its self thus cause that "why am I not losing weight?" question.

I heard the hours in which you eat also affect you as well, and I think medicine that you take could play a role to. My mother was under some medicine that actually had a bit of steriods in it, this made her get big, but
she chooses not to work out do to shes to tired from work. That may fly for a while, but she should at least go out for a walk.

[QUOTE=slade]
I heard the hours in which you eat also affect you as well, and I think medicine that you take could play a role to. [/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure that if you eat a heavy meal at night it is more likely to be stored as fat, since you are gearing down and therefore not burning it off.
I suspect medicine, steroids in particular, can play a role. From what I've heard, some women gain weight from taking oral contraceptives, so this makes sense.


However, I know very little about medicine/biology and the like, so I think others on this forum are probably much better suited to answer those questions.