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[url="http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/theelderscrollsivoblivion/news.html?sid=6148897"]here[/url]

This is just more evidence that America is going downhill...

killing = whatever, T
nipples (female) = oh noes! M

This forum is for questions regarding gameplay in Oblivion. While I sympathize with your point of view, it really is a much larger question than Oblivion, and has to do with gaming in general. I'm moving it to SYM.

*waits for T rated PC boxes to become collectors items*

Oh come on, people! This isnt in game content, so it shouldnt be subject to ESRB (IMHO). There are already mods like this out there that arent from Bethesda.

I dont understand, they are changing the rating because some people made some nude mods, or was this content just already there?

Daggerfall had graphics of characters of both sexes in nothing but a loincloth, and yes, it showed nipples. This is nothing new, yet people are making a big deal over it. Frankly, if the US spent all the money they are for war on mailing porn to the world, I think the whole world would be a mite happier and less violent.

[QUOTE=Phreddie]I dont understand, they are changing the rating because some people made some nude mods, or was this content just already there?[/QUOTE]
It was included in some sort of texture file that wasnt used in the game, it seems.

They are doing it because they are afraid that the moral brigade which is now rampaging through the US will blow some tiny detail in Oblivion into a major crusade that gives it terrible notoriety. They are also idjits, because game sales have only gained, rather than suffered, from notoriety.

[QUOTE=fable]They are also idjits[/QUOTE]

:laugh: You just used one of my favorite "words", and I had to point that out.

You do have a point though, now every child who wants the game will have to be an "adult" to get the game. It will create the "I'm not supposed to have, so therefore I want" reaction, just as cigarettes, pot, alcohol, porno, illegal knives, etc get from minors. Bravo with that one.

"Idjits" is one of my favorite "words", too! (Only I was spelling it "idgets" because it's my term for people with 'small minds'....like 'midget'. Sorry, if that word offends any small people. )

[QUOTE=Magrus]It will create the "I'm not supposed to have, so therefore I want" reaction, just as cigarettes, pot, alcohol, porno, illegal knives, etc get from minors. Bravo with that one. [/QUOTE]
Minors want pot and porn? Those perverts! We should lock them all away (with their pot and porn of course).

While the nudity skins are part of the rerating, it also says that they are doing it because the violence wasn't shown in full detail in the ESRB-submitted video. I still think it's a joke, but it isn't ONLY the nudity that caused the change (so they say).

[QUOTE=fable]This forum is for questions regarding gameplay in Oblivion. While I sympathize with your point of view, it really is a much larger question than Oblivion, and has to do with gaming in general. I'm moving it to SYM.[/QUOTE]

My apologies

This same exact thing occured with GTA San Andreas (also a Take-Two game, coincidence?) and the "Hot Coffee" mod. Albeit, San Andreas's rating was changed to AO, a lot worse than M.

If Take-Two recalls Oblivion, it just shows how much power and influence the ESRB has these days...power it shouldn't have. I remember the days when the ESRB ratings were merely "guidelines" for parents. I'll admit, games are getting ever more realistic. That's still no excuse for censureship. I don't want content being left out or cut out to avoid a M rating.

America still has its 1st amendment, no way content will be banned outright but a psycho ESRB running around is about the same thing.

We should rate the use of internet M as well, because it is so extremly hard to find pictures and movies of nipples there

[QUOTE=fable]They are doing it because they are afraid that the moral brigade which is now rampaging through the US will blow some tiny detail in Oblivion into a major crusade that gives it terrible notoriety. They are also idjits, because game sales have only gained, rather than suffered, from notoriety.[/QUOTE]
wait wait wait! Are you saying they're raising all that dust in order to give the product notoriety ??
It seems to me that it isn't needed this kind of ruse to a title like this..
Am I so naive??

The general consensus of the people and politicians of the US is that nudity is far more harmful than gore and violence. I find that mind boggling to be honest. Some T&A never hurt anybody. One of my ex's dumbfounded many people because she, her three brothers and father had no problem with nudity. Her mother did, but until she reached puberty, she and her younger brothers all would have no problem being naked around each other.

To be honest, her little brothers seem to have a less intense reaction to females than most other males their age have. They are comfortable with nudity, in all forms, and don't become drooling fools when a girl shows some skin. I happen to view that as better than what the general reaction most families have, including mine. Given my friendships with open-minded lesbians and bi-sexual girls, I lost the standard male reaction to general nudity and girl-on-girl action that most boys have as well. Simply having a naked girl around me isn't going to truly affect me much. A naked girl doing something seductive or enticing is a different story however.

I haven't played the game, and to be honest, I probably won't have the money to get the upgrades to my computer to play it until next year, if I bother to ever get it at all. However, is the nudity involved simply displaying a nude body, or is it porn-esque? If it was heroes humping, I'd say it deserves a higher rating. Nudity in and of itself shouldn't cause a higher rating.

This is *really* ridiculous...

I can see labelling a game M and beyond if it has graphic and excessive violence, games like "Manhunt" come to mind. But, "Oblivion".. just because it shows... *gasp* nipples...
So what! The sooner people start coming to grips with the naked human body, the better off we will all be. Honestly....
Why did the US (and to some extent Canada) have to be settled by a bunch of Puritans? The continent would be a much happier place had it been colonised by uninhibited exhibitionists

More seriously, Better Bodies (which has a fully nude version) has been out for Morrowind for ages.. why on earth is this suddenly an issue with Oblivion?

I'll just leave my opinion with an-

85% - why is this a big deal
and a-
15% - meh, alright.

I can see it becoming an issue with SOME people, which is the 15%, but for most, who cares? This is just like the GTA thing with that old woman and her 14 year old son. She didn't like that they were doing it, but it was totally fine to run down the street with an uzi that has 10,000 rounds and murder several thousand people all in less than 15 minutes of gameplay. but nope, it was the sex, the FAKE sex that ticked her off.

[QUOTE=Magrus]I haven't played the game, and to be honest, I probably won't have the money to get the upgrades to my computer to play it until next year, if I bother to ever get it at all. However, is the nudity involved simply displaying a nude body, or is it porn-esque? If it was heroes humping, I'd say it deserves a higher rating. Nudity in and of itself shouldn't cause a higher rating.[/QUOTE]
Its not even ingame. What is there, is probably like Better Bodies for Morrowind, if your familiar with that. Just a different body texture.

On the violence, How is that any worse than the graphicness of Call Of Duty? It has similar blood and such.



Chain of Command:

Threats from Congress> ESRB> The Mighty Dollar> Artistic Vision> What the Publisher wants> What The Developer wants> What the gamer wants.

[QUOTE=ch85us2001]Chain of Command:

Threats from Congress> ESRB> The Mighty Dollar> Artistic Vision> What the Publisher wants> What The Developer wants> What the gamer wants.[/QUOTE]

This is why my friends and I wanted to create our own games and sell them underground a few years ago. Nobody could really say crap about it. It would have been OUR product, and we wouldn't be infringing on copyrights, we'd just be selling games. Ok...we'd need a license to sell them, but still. No one to say "We want this...not what you have" or anything like that. We'd make what we wanted, and aim for customer satisfaction, not profit or pleasing overzealous religions nutcases.

*falls from the chair laughing*

My oh my, how totally ridiculous! I can't stop laughing. I mean honestly! Well I mean it won't affect anything here in Europe that's for sure, so I am not bothered except I am not sure I really understand this reasoning. So what if it's a naked body? Look in the mirror and there's one, there's nothing unnatural about it, kids or no kids. We are not talking about explicit sexual content here now are we? Well, it'll just boost game sales if nothing else, it's how these things usually go.

[QUOTE=Magrus]This is why my friends and I wanted to create our own games and sell them underground a few years ago. Nobody could really say crap about it. It would have been OUR product, and we wouldn't be infringing on copyrights, we'd just be selling games. Ok...we'd need a license to sell them, but still. No one to say "We want this...not what you have" or anything like that. We'd make what we wanted, and aim for customer satisfaction, not profit or pleasing overzealous religions nutcases.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind, ESRB is completely voluntary. No game "has" to be submitted to the ESRB to be distributed. But, Mr. Lieberman and Mr Kohl threatened to bring down the Big Ban Hammer of Doom (Tm) if something wasnt done after "Mortal Kombat" and "Night Trap" back in the 90's.

There was originally the idsa and . . . sra (???) to rate games also.

So,if you had some decent skills at programming modelling, and assembling stuff (along with a decent idea for a game) you could effectively design your own game.

Problem would be in getting it published. No publisher is going to take a chance on a (designed to be, I think there actually submitted after development, when there in the publishers hands) unrated game, and it takes a LOT of capital to start your own publisher.


EDIT- Yes, I have thought this out quite a bit. I've actually considered having a game engine built.