I’m going to get the obligatory farewells out of the way now, so I don’t forget at the end, and so you people feel special and think well of me before I piss the lot of you off again. So insert artificial “heartfelt” goodbyes here.
Apparently, the moderators have discussed banning me on two occasions. For one of these incidences, I received a warning reminder of the forum rules. Incidentally my violation of this rule was due to a misunderstanding on my part of the specifics of said rule, and since receiving this warning, I have corrected my posting habits. I am unclear as to the reason of the second suggestion for banning me.
I was rather amused to discover that I have been the topic of discussion for the forum moderators, and actually find the idea that they took the time to discuss me to any degree somewhat laughable. I was unaware that I had made such an impact.
What pickles my cucumber, however, is the fact that I am being considered for being banned for violating certain general forum and SYM-Specific rules, when violations of the same rules, and a number of others, run rampant throughout many threads with nothing so much as an edited addition by a moderator pointing out said violation. For example, did you know we are actually not allowed to discuss the use of marijuana?
[quote="Forum Rules]#2 - Questions or ideas that deal with illegal activities"]
Also of note is the fact that moderators also violate general and SYM-specific rules. Case in point:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=75728
[quote="SYM Rules]4) Be respectful of other people’s creed and religious beliefs. Posting comments that are racist will not be tolerated. Also general statements proclaiming that one religion or culture is better than another won’t be tolerated. If there is a specific aspect of that culture or religion that you wish to discuss"]
Does this mean moderators are exempt from the forum rules? How quaint. Perhaps I should have applied for moderator status before violating this rule:
[quote="forum rules]#3 - Profanity and/or sexually explicit posts are unacceptable. Purposely posting profanity in a way as to avoid our filter will not be tolerated. In extreme cases"]
But wait a tick… isn’t there someone else who regularly posts content of a sexual, profane, or otherwise obscene nature? Could this person be Magrus? I think it is. Why hasn’t he been banned, I wonder? Barring my rampant reliance on the language filter, much of what I’ve said has been of the same theme as his posts. The only explanation I can think of is the fact that Magrus is far more established on this forum, and that a good number of other members would **** the proverbial brick if he was banned. Me, on the other hand… I’m still relatively new and lack any attachments to any of the other members. No one would care if I was banned. And heck, it might even make Magrus second-guess his posting habits… but not likely.
But it’s not just Maggy May that violates Rule Number Three. Most of us are familiar with the habit of “perverting” what other members have posted in the various spam threads on SYM. Is it just the volume of Rule Three violations that cause the issue? I thought “unacceptable” meant unacceptable… not acceptable in certain quantities, in certain situations, by certain people.
“By certain people…” this sort of reminds me of one of my first posts on SYM, regarding what I perceived as elitism among certain members. I associated that elitism with post counts and similar things back then, but in light of recent illuminations I guess your SYM value is linked to how well you can fellate the Intellectual Ego: violation of any given forum rule is permissible, as long as, say, you back up your violation of Rule Two with research, or of Rule Four with news articles.
Regardless, here we are. Assuming I don’t actually get banned, I might take a look at comments on this thread, and to check the poll, but by and large I’m outtie like a bellybutton. I’d like to think this doesn’t smack of petty self-righteous indignation, because that’s not the case. Rather, I’m taking the guesswork out of this situation (whatever “this situation” might be) while addressing some puzzlement in the process. In the unlikely event that anyone should want to address me personally on this issue, or for some reason maintain contact with me, you can get my contact information from Magrus, assuming he doesn’t get banned himself in the near future.
The "Ban Aramant" Thread
Well, I don't know why you're being picked out more than anyone else... 
And from what I've seen of your posts, I don't think they should.
No doubt the usual issue will crop up where one or more mods who decide that one person they don't like the look of is an old member previously banned will crop up yet again.
Well, I hope they and you both have a change of heart. It'd be a shame to see you gone.
And from what I've seen of your posts, I don't think they should.
No doubt the usual issue will crop up where one or more mods who decide that one person they don't like the look of is an old member previously banned will crop up yet again.
Well, I hope they and you both have a change of heart. It'd be a shame to see you gone.
*nods* I think I'll step in as I was mentioned specifically. I concur. Biased mods turn a blind eye to rules depending on the clout a specific member may have in this community. Not to mention, they treat members differently based on their personal opinions of the member in question. Not to mention, the outright demeaning manner in which I have witnessed some moderators treating members whom, I am assuming feel above mentioned members may be below their personal intellectual level? Or perhaps just because they do not like them at all?
On top of that, I think I'm done with the nonsense called "discussion" threads here. There is absolutely no reason for the sarcasm and arrogance of those involved in demanding a thesis and bibliography in many of the situations I've been in when holding a discussion around here. This isn't an attempt at some new Olympian competition involving debate teams. It's a hobbyist forum where people look to relax, and "discussion" is just that. Not struggling for a scientific grant or political station.
On top of that, I think I'm done with the nonsense called "discussion" threads here. There is absolutely no reason for the sarcasm and arrogance of those involved in demanding a thesis and bibliography in many of the situations I've been in when holding a discussion around here. This isn't an attempt at some new Olympian competition involving debate teams. It's a hobbyist forum where people look to relax, and "discussion" is just that. Not struggling for a scientific grant or political station.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
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Chimaera182
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:00 am
- Contact:
Yeah, Mag and I tend to bring up certain things which shouldn't be brought up (I was wondering why it was I never got warned on such a thing, because I assumed it was an actual rule).
And while I do disagree partially to Magrus on the scientific discussion bit--every once in a while, I do enjoy a good scientific debate, full of facts, theses, etc. (I must admit, I enjoy seeing CE in action, whether we're on the same side or not )--a lot of our discussions really aren't supposed to be chock-full of facts and backed up by some bunch of reliable sources. To make any of these threads of discussion to be only applicable in any way to someone who can back up what they say is to preclude a good deal of the people on the board to begin with. Not everyone wants to or can back up their own feelings, which are pretty much what winds up getting discussed in a lot of threads. A lot of this is personal feelings/opinions. We can try to back stuff like that up, but I think people--like Masa, for example, who fell victim to a lot of criticism it seemed (including my own, mind you)--get intimidated when a bunch of facts are thrown at them and they're then asked to back up their own arguments. Intelligent debate can be quite intimidating, especially considering the collective intelligence of the average human is quite low.
As to Aramant's being banned, I don't recall seeing you post anything that offensive in here, but maybe I've just not been paying close attention. But I'd have to give that one a big 'no.'
And while I do disagree partially to Magrus on the scientific discussion bit--every once in a while, I do enjoy a good scientific debate, full of facts, theses, etc. (I must admit, I enjoy seeing CE in action, whether we're on the same side or not
)--a lot of our discussions really aren't supposed to be chock-full of facts and backed up by some bunch of reliable sources. To make any of these threads of discussion to be only applicable in any way to someone who can back up what they say is to preclude a good deal of the people on the board to begin with. Not everyone wants to or can back up their own feelings, which are pretty much what winds up getting discussed in a lot of threads. A lot of this is personal feelings/opinions. We can try to back stuff like that up, but I think people--like Masa, for example, who fell victim to a lot of criticism it seemed (including my own, mind you)--get intimidated when a bunch of facts are thrown at them and they're then asked to back up their own arguments. Intelligent debate can be quite intimidating, especially considering the collective intelligence of the average human is quite low.As to Aramant's being banned, I don't recall seeing you post anything that offensive in here, but maybe I've just not been paying close attention. But I'd have to give that one a big 'no.'
General: "Those aren't ideas; those are special effects."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
Michael Bay: "I don't understand the difference."
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Luis Antonio
- Posts: 9103
- Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: In the home of the demoted.
- Contact:
Aramant,
This post of yours makes me wonder if you're upset or just trying to show off. I dont mind. I think you're stressed and upset, and that you're leashing out at the world. I dont mind, really. I dont care.
a) CE's post is discussing religion, and does not ashame nor says one is right and other is wrong. Aye. Now, there's a huge discussion in the world between two cathegories of believers and in fact I'm divided between both. Anyway, there's a discussion going on and people have to take a side on that and discuss it. If you cant discuss something without being racist/religious intolerant or something then dont. That's not the case. If you tell you believe in creationism, your post will be accepted, and will be DISCUSSED.
b) Despite Magrus (and mine) tendency to talk about sex, teasing and alcoholics in the forums, we arent explicit, we arent insane, and we try to be decent about it. Magrus was just recently pointed out by a member as a sexual predator and he hated it. He shares experiences, and he's not explicit about it. If you talk to him on msn and you've mixed things up (he being explicit on telling you stuff there) then I suggest you stop and think about it.
c) Regarding the forum obscenity blocker, you better look out. I dont like those words, they're rude, they make my ear tingle in a bad way. And my eyes too, when I read it. I expect you dont use the * much, cause it hurts my eyes too.
If you have a personal problem with one of the moderators, PM him and solve it that way. Waving this flag of your banning will just cause more fuss, and I expect you to understand that because of this action of yours I'm now agreeing with your banning, what wasnt truth before.
This post of yours makes me wonder if you're upset or just trying to show off. I dont mind. I think you're stressed and upset, and that you're leashing out at the world. I dont mind, really. I dont care.
a) CE's post is discussing religion, and does not ashame nor says one is right and other is wrong. Aye. Now, there's a huge discussion in the world between two cathegories of believers and in fact I'm divided between both. Anyway, there's a discussion going on and people have to take a side on that and discuss it. If you cant discuss something without being racist/religious intolerant or something then dont. That's not the case. If you tell you believe in creationism, your post will be accepted, and will be DISCUSSED.
b) Despite Magrus (and mine) tendency to talk about sex, teasing and alcoholics in the forums, we arent explicit, we arent insane, and we try to be decent about it. Magrus was just recently pointed out by a member as a sexual predator and he hated it. He shares experiences, and he's not explicit about it. If you talk to him on msn and you've mixed things up (he being explicit on telling you stuff there) then I suggest you stop and think about it.
c) Regarding the forum obscenity blocker, you better look out. I dont like those words, they're rude, they make my ear tingle in a bad way. And my eyes too, when I read it. I expect you dont use the * much, cause it hurts my eyes too.
If you have a personal problem with one of the moderators, PM him and solve it that way. Waving this flag of your banning will just cause more fuss, and I expect you to understand that because of this action of yours I'm now agreeing with your banning, what wasnt truth before.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
Speaking as one of the moderators past persons of interest, just watch yourself, they can be fair, lenient, and even nice in the case of a misunderstanding, as long as you show a general willingness to follow the rules. That being said, most people violate rule number three, but rules were made to be bent. They were also made to protect people from harmful behavior, if no one is bothered by the perversion (Nano might give rav nightmares, but its nothing he cant handle) than I nor do I think the mods would call some one out for it.
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
Voltaire
[QUOTE=Xandax]Color me purple and call me barney.[/QUOTE]
Voltaire
[QUOTE=Xandax]Color me purple and call me barney.[/QUOTE]
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ch85us2001
- Posts: 8748
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:53 pm
- Location: My mind dwells elsewhere . . .
Mr Aramant:
It has come to my attention that you may be on the brink of pulling a Chu. Having personal experience in this matter, it's not all the best way to go. It's often better to use PM's and such. But my saying that is calling the kettle black, now isnt it?
I feel you have set yourself up for banning/leaving, and that saddens me deeply. Please, it would be nice if you would stay. Your behavior doesnt offend me in anyway.
Moderator's are only glorified members, after all, and therefore (possibly) human. I'm afraid we must just live with any errs in judgement they may or may not have.
And we all know Moderators arent the only people here that treat others differently/ignore users because there opinion differs. I can think of a few right off the top of my head, including one who's doing it at this very moment, and regrettably, myself, in the past.
So Post Conclusium (I can say big Latin words too!), I do not want you to leave.
Yours, In Spam
Chus
It has come to my attention that you may be on the brink of pulling a Chu. Having personal experience in this matter, it's not all the best way to go. It's often better to use PM's and such. But my saying that is calling the kettle black, now isnt it?
I feel you have set yourself up for banning/leaving, and that saddens me deeply. Please, it would be nice if you would stay.
Your behavior doesnt offend me in anyway. Moderator's are only glorified members, after all, and therefore (possibly) human. I'm afraid we must just live with any errs in judgement they may or may not have.
And we all know Moderators arent the only people here that treat others differently/ignore users because there opinion differs. I can think of a few right off the top of my head, including one who's doing it at this very moment, and regrettably, myself, in the past.
So Post Conclusium (I can say big Latin words too!), I do not want you to leave.
Yours, In Spam
Chus
[url=tamriel-rebuilt.org]Tamriel Rebuilt and,[/url] [url="http://z13.invisionfree.com/Chus_Mod_Forum/index.php?"]My Mod Fansite[/url]
I am the Lord of Programming, and your Mother Board, and your RAR Unpacker, and Your Runtime Engine, can tell you all about it
I am the Lord of Programming, and your Mother Board, and your RAR Unpacker, and Your Runtime Engine, can tell you all about it
@Aramant, you are misinterpreting the rules. My suggestion is that you contact Buck or one of the SYM mods (T', Mahar or Xan) or Super Mods (Xan and Fable) to clarify how the rules should be interpreted. For instance, the
#2 - Questions or ideas that deal with illegal activities, including any post related to software piracy, will be removed immediately and you'll lose all posting privileges.
does not mean we cannot discuss illegal activities as a discussion topic - there have been many serious discussions here at SYM about child abuse, murder, war crimes etc. The rule means we are not allowed to propagate illegal activities such as committing violent crimes or post links to illegal software sites.
Regarding rule
#3 - Profanity and/or sexually explicit posts are unacceptable. Purposely posting profanity in a way as to avoid our filter will not be tolerated. In extreme cases, we may even file complaints with your ISP or hosting company.
it does not mean we cannot discuss sex in an explicit way. The rules refer to use of profanity and "explicitness" such as posting porn pictures, not serious discussions about sexual behaviour. There have been numerous discussions about sex here at SYM without violating a single profanity filter.
Regarding my post about the new genomic study where the researchers suggested interspecies sex between humans and chimps as an explanation for their findings, I cannot see how this thread is violating rule 4, unless you mean that my joke about "virgin birth" was offensive. Since I cleary indicated it was a joke by using the smiley, I don't think it should be viewed as disrespectful. However, if you feel offended by the post, use the report button in the right corner to report it to the SYM mods. I doubt though that you will get me banned for this post since factual critisism of beliefs and opinions are allowed and critisism is not equal to disrespect. I do think it is important to understand the difference between critism based on facts and arguments and ad hominems.
#2 - Questions or ideas that deal with illegal activities, including any post related to software piracy, will be removed immediately and you'll lose all posting privileges.
does not mean we cannot discuss illegal activities as a discussion topic - there have been many serious discussions here at SYM about child abuse, murder, war crimes etc. The rule means we are not allowed to propagate illegal activities such as committing violent crimes or post links to illegal software sites.
Regarding rule
#3 - Profanity and/or sexually explicit posts are unacceptable. Purposely posting profanity in a way as to avoid our filter will not be tolerated. In extreme cases, we may even file complaints with your ISP or hosting company.
it does not mean we cannot discuss sex in an explicit way. The rules refer to use of profanity and "explicitness" such as posting porn pictures, not serious discussions about sexual behaviour. There have been numerous discussions about sex here at SYM without violating a single profanity filter.
Regarding my post about the new genomic study where the researchers suggested interspecies sex between humans and chimps as an explanation for their findings, I cannot see how this thread is violating rule 4, unless you mean that my joke about "virgin birth" was offensive. Since I cleary indicated it was a joke by using the
smiley, I don't think it should be viewed as disrespectful. However, if you feel offended by the post, use the report button in the right corner to report it to the SYM mods. I doubt though that you will get me banned for this post since factual critisism of beliefs and opinions are allowed and critisism is not equal to disrespect. I do think it is important to understand the difference between critism based on facts and arguments and ad hominems."There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
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dragon wench
- Posts: 19609
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
- Contact:
Aramant,
I saw the title of your thread and felt totally bewildered. I also hope that you and the mods can resolve whatever is going on.
That being said, I happen to think you raise some valid points. Sometimes enforcement of SYM rules seems a bit arbitrary and involves many shades of grey.
If somebody is clever and subtle with their insults, they can easily get away with it. However, if a poster is more blatant they are usually called on it.
I saw the title of your thread and felt totally bewildered. I also hope that you and the mods can resolve whatever is going on.
That being said, I happen to think you raise some valid points. Sometimes enforcement of SYM rules seems a bit arbitrary and involves many shades of grey.
If somebody is clever and subtle with their insults, they can easily get away with it. However, if a poster is more blatant they are usually called on it.
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
Aramant,
First of all, let me just say that I honestly have never heard a word about you from any of the moderators. If anyone was considering you for a ban, it's news to me. This thread is not a good way to make your voice heard, though, and I'm not going to let it become some sort of rallying area for anyone who wants to bring up issue with how these forums are moderated. Consider it closed.
I agree that the system is not perfect, but you have to understand that hundreds, sometimes thousands, of posts are added every single day. The moderating staff patrols the boards on a regular basis, but you can't possibly expect them to read through every single post and pick out every offense. We are all largely dependent on user submissions for forum violations, which is why you will almost always see the most blatant infractions taken care of immediately while some smaller ones might go unseen.
Personally, I think the moderating staff does a fine job. Considering the challenge of so many different time zones and the fact that they receive no compensation of any kind, it's surprising that we don't have more problems. It's not an easy job for any of them, no matter how you break it down.
If you feel that there is favoritism happening within the moderator ranks, then that is something entirely different and you are more than welcome to send me a PM directly. I have no problem with looking into the matter myself and making sure things get sorted out properly.
First of all, let me just say that I honestly have never heard a word about you from any of the moderators. If anyone was considering you for a ban, it's news to me. This thread is not a good way to make your voice heard, though, and I'm not going to let it become some sort of rallying area for anyone who wants to bring up issue with how these forums are moderated. Consider it closed.
I agree that the system is not perfect, but you have to understand that hundreds, sometimes thousands, of posts are added every single day. The moderating staff patrols the boards on a regular basis, but you can't possibly expect them to read through every single post and pick out every offense. We are all largely dependent on user submissions for forum violations, which is why you will almost always see the most blatant infractions taken care of immediately while some smaller ones might go unseen.
Personally, I think the moderating staff does a fine job. Considering the challenge of so many different time zones and the fact that they receive no compensation of any kind, it's surprising that we don't have more problems. It's not an easy job for any of them, no matter how you break it down.
If you feel that there is favoritism happening within the moderator ranks, then that is something entirely different and you are more than welcome to send me a PM directly. I have no problem with looking into the matter myself and making sure things get sorted out properly.