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When I look at the Record info in the game I see, for example, that Minsc (lvl 9)has the following info:

Save:
Paralyze/Poison/Death 7(-1)
Rod/Staff/Wand 9(-1)
Petrify/Polymorph 8(-1)
Breath 8(-1)
Spells 7(-1)

I didn't see anything specific about these statistics in the manual but I gather they are saving throws used when a monster attacks in the various ways listed. But I don't understand HOW they are used and why two numbers and whether they are used in connection with some other number that pertains to the monster. Looking at some of the other characters in the Record section, for example, not all of them have a second number in parentheses. Why is that? Is the dice roll used d20 or something else and is it rolled only after a roll to hit shows a hit? Is there some way to tell if your number is good versus some particular enemy? Can someone give me the details on these issues and also tell me whether there is something a player can do to improve these numbers to benefit his characters and know in advance what the improvement will be (for example before you spend the 2,000 gp).

Many thanks from someone who has never played an RPG before.

If I remember correctly The first number is the what you have to 'beat' on the d20. So in your example you would need an 8 or better to make your saving throw vs. a breath weapon (dragon). The second number means you have some sort of bonus to your save (innate due to ability score, or from an item). So actually you would only have to roll a 7 or better to make your save vs. a breath weapon.

I think that answers everything....

Hex92

[This message has been edited by Hex92 (edited 01-30-2001).]

your saving throws will improve as you level up, and barring certain items which give you a ST bonus, that is the only way to improve them as far as i know. each time you level up, check the little info box on the screen where you distribute weapon proficiencies (you might have to press it a couple of times to get to the right screen) and it will tell you how much your saving throws have been reduced by for that level. and, of course, you can equip special items which give you a lower saving throw against one or all forms of attack.

as far as i know, there is no way to know what you have to have in order to beat the attack of a certain opponent.

so, you will have already noticed that as to what is good, lower saving throws are always better. for instance, in my party, Mazzy has the best saving throws (they are, in order, 0, 1, 4, 4, 0) so if i find a trap that i need to go through but am unable to disarm, i send Mazzy as she has the best chance of beating whatever magical attack the trap dishes out. hope that helps ya.


[This message has been edited by Mhr'djynn (edited 01-31-2001).]

The tricky thing is that items that improves your saving throws says +X to saving throw(s), but it is a + to – so it becomes + - and as most can remember from math + - = -
It is the same as with AC, a positive item adds in a negative way to AC witch is a positive thing. Confused?

oh, i forgot: there are some spells you can cast which temporarily improve your saving throws in a battle. one which comes to mind is the priest spell "bless" which improves your party's saving throw against fear attacks by one, and raises their attack dice by one.

also, you can temporarily penalize your opponents' saving throws with certain spells. for instance, the mage spell greater malison causes all enemies to make their saving throws at a penalty of 4. this is a great spell to cast at the beginning of a battle if you are going to be casting nasty spells or are using magical weapons which will do more damage if the opponent fails a save versus death, etc...

there are other spells which manipulate saving throws as well, i think. browse your spellbooks and you'll find them.

[This message has been edited by Mhr'djynn (edited 01-31-2001).]

1. Your saving throws are related with the "Save: ..." effects listed in the spell descriptions. Consider a Finger of Death spell. It has "Save: Neg.", in the other words, if you save vs. death then nothing happens. If you fail your save the you are - somehow - ... Eh, restart and try again.
Every time a spell is cast on you a random number between 1 and 20 is rolled. If the number is greater than your saving throw (save vs. death in our example) then you succeed in saving vs. spell and the "Save: ..." effect of the spell happens. Otherwise, you get it.
The situation is a bit more complicated. Sometimes, you save with bonuses or penalties. For example, if you must save with -4 penalty, your saving throw is increased by 4 temporarily and you must beat the random number with your worsened saving throw.
2. The number in parenthesis is a bonus to your saving throws caused by some items. Your table shows that you have equipped a Ring of Protection +1, Helm of Defense, Helm of Balduran or a sililar item. Your saving throws are 8 10 9 9 8 and you have a bonus +1 to all your saving throws. Therefore, your actual saving throws are 7 9 8 8 7 and the bonus is listed in the parenthesis. Put your ring away and your saving throws jump to 8 10 9 9 8.
3. Your data can be translated the following way:

you have 35% chance to be paralyzed, poisoned or killed by a spell
you have 45% chance to fail your save when a spell is cast on you by means of a wand, etc.
you have 40% chance to be petrified or polymorphed
you have 40% chance to be affected by a breath weapon of a dragon or sililar spells
you have 35% chance to fail a save vs. a spell that doesn't fall into any category above.

Notes:
1. Only one saving throw is tested. When a paralyzing spells is cast on you by a wand then you will save vs. wands. If you fail, you will be paralyzed no matter what your saving throw vs. paralyzation is.
2. Some spells have prescribed the saving throw. For example, when you cast Nature Beauty on a monster, the monster must save vs. breath.

Couple points of clarification:

As Radek said, the listed saves are your ADJUSTED save including the bonus in parenthesis. The bonus in parenthesis is usually due to protection items (ex Ring of Protection +1). Saving throws are why Full Plate and a ROP +1 give better protection than Full Plate +1.

Your saves go down as your level up.

Browse your spellbooks...hmm...anyone else have a picture of a blue guy ripping pages out of spell books? (You know you've played too much Magic when...)

I am surprised that this saving throw stuff isn't modified somehow by kind of monster that's attacking you but I guess shouldn't complain.

I have another character whose saving throw vs Breath is -2(-9). Based on what you have said I assume that there is no advantage in going below 0. Is that right? Wait, aren't there spells that affect saving throws - so maybe the -2 does help sometimes?

Thanks for the info all of you.

A I've tried to explain, you will save with penalties sometimes (i.e., often). Example: if you have -2 for your saving throw and you must save at -4 penalty then you must save with +2 saving throw ...