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How necessary are thieves in ToB? Can I get through without one?

The next time I play through the game I want to use either of these:

GOOD PARTY
Keldorn } tank 1, leader
Minsc } tank 2
Valygar } semi-tank, druid spells
Reso (Priest Of Lathander [Dwarf]) } backup tank, priest spells
Jan } main thief, backup mage
Nalia } main mage, backup thief

Sarevok will replace Jan at the start of ToB, which is where my question comes in; is Nalia enough of a Thief to get me through ToB? If not, there's two further possibilities; Valygar or Nalia could be replaced instead of Jan at ToB, OR I could play a Half-Orc Cleric/Thief and instead of using Jan through SoA I'd pick up Haer'Dalis or possibly Mazzy, to be replaced by Sarevok at ToB. By the way, I'm aware Sarevok isn't Good, of course. I'm planning to change that through the game.

Anyway, that's the Good party option, here's the Evil one:

EVIL PARTY
(Kensai [Half-Orc]) } tank 1, leader
Korgan } tank 2
Cernd } tank 3, druid spells
Viconia } backup tank, priest spells
Jan } main thief, backup mage
Edwin } main mage

Again, Sarevok will be replacing Jan. That will leave me with no thieves at all however, so I think the best alternative would be to play as a Human to dual to a Thief once Sarevok is picked up.

Thanks for any help or thoughts on this.

Reply

A thief is a necessity in TOB.

There are alot of excellent power upgrades that can only be achieved by having a theif in your party.

A note, if your Kensai is a Half-Orc that must become a Human in order to dual-class. Although a multi-class fighter/theif half-elf may appeal to you.

Mages are more useful in TOB and theiving skills that come from a backup theif will be effective given that you choose wisely into what skills to invest in.

So I strongly recommend you ditch Jan for both instances.

For the good replace Jan with Anomen and that gives your character free rein since alot of the bosses are melee you can pick whatever you want since you'd have enough firepower to cover every aspect of the game. (Also note that Imoen is better for TOB given the storyline and also her involvement in TOB is well worthwhile to see - plus she is actually a better theif and mage than Nalia could ever hope to be) If you do opt for Sarevok replace him for Minsc as both have similar characteristics - melee and since Sarevok is the better considering his abilities and power - its best to choose him to allow you to have another option left available that can be whatever you want.

So if all advice taken you would end up with:

You (anyone since all bases are covered), Keldorn+Sarevok+Valygar (melee and ranged experts), Anomen and Imoen (both versatile spellcasters that can be used as either melee or thief given their skills)

For the evil, replace Cernd (interesting addition might I add) and Jan with either Sarevok or Haer'Dalis - given there is an effective tactic for Haer'Dalis becoming a powerhouse even in TOB he would be a worthy addition.

So if all advice taken you would end up with:

You (Half-Elf Fighter/Thief), Sarevok+Korgan(melee experts), Viconia+Haer'Dalis (both versatile characters that can be used for either melee or turning undead given their skills) - Remaining character entirely your choice since all bases have been covered - recommendation would be Jaheira - for druid spells and fighting abilities whilst also being True Neutral so you don't stray too far from being evil.

[QUOTE=Amran_X_Kaiser]
You (Half-Elf Fighter/Thief), Sarevok+Korgan(melee experts), Viconia+Haer'Dalis (both versatile characters that can be used for either melee or turning undead given their skills) - Remaining character entirely your choice since all bases have been covered - recommendation would be Jaheira - for druid spells and fighting abilities whilst also being True Neutral so you don't stray too far from being evil.[/QUOTE]

+ Edwin please?
Having only Haer'D as your spellcaster seems very minimal given the high-level magic users in need of breaching/shield piercing/ruby raying you'll encounter in ToB.

Reply

Oh man can't believe I forgot about that Edwin.

Take him instead of/or and Haer'Dalis.

Atleast if you replace Haer'Dalis you will have the option of having another character of your choice to choose from since the wizard aspect is covered.

Though - stick with Edwin+Haer'Dalis. Since he (Haer'Dalis) can be used for both fightingmagic plus his bard song and Blade fighting abilities he would be a worthy addition - not to mention a certain elven chain being found at the beginning or being taken from a certain dragon near the end of BG2.

If you do Valgyar's quest you can find a ring which gives +25 find traps in the Sphere which enables Nalia to handle any trap.
Locks can be opened with the "knock" spell or bashed, but you can find a ring which gives +25 pick locks if you side with the thieves.
In ToB you can also find an amulet which gives +20 pick locks and find traps in Yaga Shura's cave.
So even Nalia can become perfect in lockpicking and trapsetting with the right equipment.

But why do you want to dismiss Jan ?
Spell effects are capped at level 20 for mages which he can reach in ToB and thief HLAs are extremely powerful. He can even backstab better than Valgyar.
If you play a thief yourself there's of course no need to take him along.

Reply

Ah another interesting point concerning items.

Although my post was based on character skills rather than items you may not feel the same way. Although given TOB can give you more than your share of skill concerning theif attributes its really your decision whether or not to have a backup thief with item enhancing skills or a thief with wise investment in skills so that items won't be relied on in TOB - in BG2 however these items are extremely useful for either Nalia or Jan - whilst Imoen or Yoshimo have their skills sufficiently to last their whole lives (as long as Yoshimos atleast).

The reason for dismissing Jan is that on the Good party - Imoen is all-round better - better abilities, stats and she is also crucial to the storyline and her involvement in your quest is also important.

For the evil - well if you play a F/Thief for the protaginist he in unecessary as the only one available spot (given that Sarevok, Korgan, Edwin and Viconia are there) which can be used for anything and since there is no need for Jan to be there his entire involvement - mage, thief and backstab skills are being taken to a better extent - Haer'Dalis or Jaheira I feel are the two that stand out for that remaining spot given what they can provide to the Evil party..

Locks can be opened with the "knock" spell or bashed, but you can find a ring which gives +25 pick locks if you side with the thieves.

I have NEVER been able to smash locks. Even with a 19 strength. Is there something I am missing here?

No. But different door require different strengh to be forced. There's some door (for example the looked door in D'Arnise Hold that you MUST get trough) that can be forced with just 18/ some.

But the most doors I think is unforcable, I used to try open them with 25 str but coudn't do it anyway.

And to add to kmonsters thief skill- inchanting equipment; there's a ring that the... forgot her name, that extra planar mechant in Adventure's Mart. Sigil is it!
She sells the Merykillers ring that boosts set trap, lock pick, find trap with, I think, 20%.