Killing a dragon in melee?

Kimmuriel · Post by **Kimmuriel** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:52 am

I was wondering how you can get a melee fighter such as my party's keldorn or PC fighter to actually hit firkraag? I have killed him before, but that was with the wand of cloudkill tactic and I want to kill him not being cheap. I got 1 thaco with my kensai/mage on celestial fury and 4 thaco with dak'kon's katana in the off-hand. Keldorn has 2 thaco with Lilarcor and 5 thaco if I have him use the longsword of dragonslaying. However I never hit, in a couple of minutes of having anomen and jahiera healing my fighters and summoning shields I got a grand total of one hit on Firkraag from keldon for something like 20 damage and after running out of any summons or heals I just gave up since it obviously was hopeless. I have never killing a dragon before with melee and I am curious as to what any of the dragon's AC is if anyone knows since I cant hit any of the other dragons either.

Any help is appreciated

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:12 pm

I remember Mazzy killing the Shadow Dragon in melee in one of my games ... but that was after one of my wild mage's spells went slightly wrong and had turned it into a squirrle.

Have you tried using Shadow Keeper to discover the dragons AC?

Kimmuriel · Post by **Kimmuriel** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:57 pm

No, I havent tried Shadowkeeper didnt know you could check things like that with it I mostly just use it to insert an item when theres a bug or glitch of something.

I have never successfully polymorphed a dragon, then again I havent ever used a wild mage either.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:11 pm

No, I havent tried Shadowkeeper didnt know you could check things like that with it I mostly just use it to insert an item when theres a bug or glitch of something.

to be honest I wasn't 100% sure but apparently you can. The cre.file Firkraag has his base AC as -11 and a base HP of 184.

I have never successfully polymorphed a dragon, then again I havent ever used a wild mage either.

You should try one, they're hours of fun. I can remember sitting regretting ever letting Jaheira out of her cage then *bamf* my casting of haste went wring and she disintergrated. Yay!

Kimmuriel · Post by **Kimmuriel** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:27 pm

So with a wild mage can they fail any casting and have a random effect then?

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:23 am

Every time a Wild Mage casts a spell there is a 5% chance that the spell explodes in a Wild Surge. A Wild Surge does some completely random magical effect. A roll is made on the Wild Surge chart (see the Tables section of the manual); higher rolls are usually better than the lower rolls. A Wild Mage’s casting level also varies slightly whenever he casts a spell - anywhere between five levels lower and five levels higher than the Wild Mage’s true level. There are also three brand new spells available to the Wild Mage and ONLY the Wild Mage. These spells are Chaos Shield, Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and Improved Chaos Shield.

From the BGII section of this very site.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:14 pm

Wild Mages are teriffic! I've had a lot of fun playing one.
As for Firkaag: doesn't he cast defensive spells like Stoneskin and the like? It's not cheese to have your mage dispel those.

Lord Firkraag · Post by **Lord Firkraag** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:23 pm

Yeah...i believe dragons can be killed in melee. I mean, I remember my ranger Archer getting the killing blow on the shadow dragon so I'm sure it's possible with Firkraag. I usually cast peirce magic and breech when i fight dragons...and summon of course (they'll live long enough to take a little dmg away from your party).

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:12 pm

Somewhere above 13th level, Keldorn should be able to kill Firkraag single-handedly (without using Carsomyr or any help from a Mage). Unlike other melee warriors, he can cast True Sight and Dispel Magic, which will negate Firkraag's magical defenses. (Firkraag is a 25th level monster, and the Inquisitor's version of Dispel Magic works at twice the character's level, or in this case, 26th level or higher.) After that, it's just a matter of dishing out damage fast enough before Firkraag can kill him. Keldorn can use a girdle of giant strength, the dragon helm, the dragon shield, and the +2 longsword that does double damage against dragons. He can also buff himself up in other ways (potions, Scrolls of Protection, etc.) but those can be dispelled by his own Dispel Magic (and possibly by Firkraag) so you just have to be careful. Keldorn actually has a pretty good chance of winning. Armed with Carsomyr, it's even easier for him to kill dragons and liches.

Other warriors who can't dispel Firkraag's magical defenses or make up for that by using High Level Abilities such as Whirlwind or Hardiness are at a severe disadvantage. I wouldn't waste my time trying to kill a dragon with, say, a 17th Level Fighter (without backup, that is).

Rhûn · Post by **Rhûn** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:48 pm

I killed Firkraag before Spellhold with my dwarven (solo) beserker...of COURSE you can beat 'em in melee

With the right tactics. The same character also defeated the shadow dragon. My dwarf was last heard of escaping the Underdark, having single-handedly defeated the entire drow city of Ust'Natha with ease.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:16 pm

A bit counterintuitive but use the worst weapon you have with no enchantement, the buffs the dragon casts are aimed at deflecting enchanted weapons and he has no provisions for run off the mill weapons.

Keldorns dispel is awsome if you can aim it right go for it if not it's not needed. give your best tank all the best items that you have probably spread around your party to cover weakness, buff him up as best as possible using potions, improved haste ect regeneration is extremely helpful if you have a cleric capable of level 7 spells. with regenaration korgan can do it from level 14+ should be similar with keldorn if you dont have regeneration the only change is you need to take the dragon out quicker (lower resistance and magic missle pelt from 2 mages, ring of ram, holy smite?? the cleric spell that does about 20 dmg regardless of resistance) there are endless ways to kill firkraag without resorting to cheese, just be sure your party is well balanced and at a decent level. you really don't need carsomyr straight out of irenicus dundgeon

aldazir · Post by **aldazir** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:35 pm

Without stating the obvious. Do your best to keep him pinned to the one spot. If he gets mobile he'll pick off each of your NPCs separately and the battle will be over very quickly in his favour. Keep your spell casters well back from the fight and spread out around the cavern, casting the spells already mentioned ( you may even want to equip one with the dragonsbane sling and get off a few shots in between spells) I like to attack him from either flank. If you can get him to turn on one group of attackers, the second group can be dishing out damage from behind. Even if he "blows" the first group away, he basically wastes time whilst turning around to face off against the second group. This ( hopefully) gives the first group time to regroup and resume its attack on the other side ( hope that makes sense) On one occasion I had him so confused, he wasnt sure which group to attack first spending a large amount of time turning from side to side without firing off even one attack. :laugh: Its long process and possibly even a little cheesey, but it works for me.

Cihan · Post by **Cihan** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:11 am

Maybe this is not actually melee but i want to tell this. I casted "Gate" vith Viconia and it got Firkraag into Morale Failure:Running. I regret I didn't take a screenshot of that.

Emnelion · Post by **Emnelion** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:11 am

Hmm. I don't think I've ever beated any dragon woth spells. Viconia and Edwin is pretty worthless in a dragon-battle. Except for summons, haste, prot. fr. fire on all and healing.

Anyway, my tactic is just pure offence. Put all you summons and buffed meele characters around Firkraag and then just start bashing. Of course Edwin have to cast breach to get rid of his stonestin, and then he just spam remove magic until a slow can effect the dragon.
By that time Viconias bolt of glory or sol's searing orb can do some damage.

But it's ALWAYS in meele I kill dragons (Except 2 or 3 times.) I've even succesfully touched Firkraag with a harm FROM VICONIA HAHA and then just bashed him with some meele guy.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:23 am

Emnelion wrote:Hmm. I don't think I've ever beated any dragon woth spells. Viconia and Edwin is pretty worthless in a dragon-battle. Except for summons, haste, prot. fr. fire on all and healing...
Of course Edwin have to cast breach to get rid of his stonestin, and then he just spam remove magic until a slow can effect the dragon...
By that time Viconias bolt of glory or sol's searing orb can do some damage.
...
I've even succesfully touched Firkraag with a harm FROM VICONIA HAHA...

If you put all that put together maybe Edwin and Viconia are not that useless.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:45 am

Emnelion wrote:Hmm. I don't think I've ever beated any dragon woth spells. Viconia and Edwin is pretty worthless in a dragon-battle. Except for summons, haste, prot. fr. fire on all and healing.

Anyway, my tactic is just pure offence. Put all you summons and buffed meele characters around Firkraag and then just start bashing. Of course Edwin have to cast breach to get rid of his stonestin, and then he just spam remove magic until a slow can effect the dragon.
By that time Viconias bolt of glory or sol's searing orb can do some damage.

But it's ALWAYS in meele I kill dragons (Except 2 or 3 times.) I've even succesfully touched Firkraag with a harm FROM VICONIA HAHA and then just bashed him with some meele guy.

Last time I fought a dragon it was all magic. Didn't use the Magic Resistance spell mostly because in my game when I do the cirkel underneath the dragon disappears. In other words I can no longer target him. I did use all the Doom, Malison and Lower Resistance spells I could throw at him. Once I had worked on him like that my Spook spells had a pretty high rate of success. It still got pretty intense in the end Viconia ran around drained down to level 3 or 4 and Haer'Dalis was just about to die when Jan killed the thing with Melf's Acid Arrow...