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Level Squatting Advice

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:23 pm
by Philos
Had not really tried much serious level squatting (1 or 2 levels in the later part of my 1st game) but thought I would give it a shot with a new party from the beginning. I got everyone up to 4th level and from then on I only leveled my spell casters, a cleric and a mage. It was working great, the XP points earned were much higher. At 4th level my 3 warriors and my rogue had a enough hit points to survive a couple of hits, with everyone using missle weapons of some kind and the spells from my casters I have avoided any prolonged melee that could take them out. I’ve made it through the first level of the Ice Temple. But it’s worked too well.
But I am afraid I’ve created a Frankenstein so to speak as well as a conundrum. If I level them now I worry that I will now lose a boatload of experience. They will probably be way too high a level for the 2nd level of the Ice Temple and the CR will be down in the toilet, thus little or no XP. My Paladin and Ranger (both Aasimar) could level from 4th to 8th immediately. My fighter and rogue could go to 9th. If I don’t level them I fear it will just get worse. Also my mage does not have any 5th level spells yet so although they are at 8th level, and could go to 9th it will only mean a few more hit points at this time.
Should I level them all now and just bite the bullet? Or perhaps wait till the next chapter. Or maybe level 1 or 2 now and the other 2 in the next chapter. I will need at least one with a lot hit points to do battle squares anyhow. Suggestions anyone?

Thanks

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:43 pm
by silverdragon72
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AFAIK you could level up to L6 without getting less EXP from battle (the EXP reduction on level difference first starts if your average party level (apl) is above 6.0!

In your situation now I would only give level ups to 1 or 2 PCs at a time and keeps the apl always at x.7 to x.9 as IWD2 always rounds down when calculating the apl!

.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:10 am
by Jelaweb
You say that your mage won't get more spells from level 8 to 9? If the character is a sorcerer, he/she gets extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th level spells. A wizard would get that 5th level spell (as well as an extra 2nd level).

You should not really level squat pure spellcasters, unless they have reached a stage where a certain spell does all the damage (level 3 Fireball, for example, suddenly makes the game very easy).
However, your cleric could squat from level 11, once you get the Heal spell.
Fighters and Barbarians are least important for levelling up, once they have 100 hit points (to avoid Power Word: Kill, among other nasty spells).

I once level-squatted through the entire ice temple. It was difficult - all but one of my party members had around 30 hit points. Two strikes from a crystal golem and bang! They were dead.
I don't level squat now, except for every two Fighter/Barbarian levels, because I don't want to waste a skill point in Intimidate.

So, my advice is only level up if you are having severe difficulty at a particular stage in the game - except your pure spellcasters.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:44 pm
by Philos
Clarification

Thanks Silver Dragon,
I will do 1 now, and stagger the rest out. Appreciate the advice.

Jelaweb,
your quote
You say that your mage won't get more spells from level 8 to 9? If the character is a sorcerer, he/she gets extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th level spells. A wizard would get that 5th level spell (as well as an extra 2nd level).
Regarding my mage, I meant to say that I have gained any 5th level spell scrolls to copy to my spell book. Without any 5th level spells in my book I saw no need to level up him up to 9th and basically add to my party's overall level for just 5 more hit points. He isn't a sorcerer and that would of course eliminate that problem. I normally do level my spell casters as soon as they make it, in this case I have levelled so fast the spells I find or can buy have fallen behind. Doesn't matter of course for my cleric.
I once level-squatted through the entire ice temple. It was difficult - all but one of my party members had around 30 hit points. Two strikes from a crystal golem and bang!
Had no problem from the golems because of one great item you find in abundance outside the temple **spoiler**"Impact Arrows", they do bonus damage of around 20+ hit points PER arrow on a Crystal Golem. So, 5 or 6 hits and the golem is toast. I don't even let them get close enough to melee. The C. G. Champions are little tougher though and the arrows don't get as much of a bonus.

Thanks for all the advice.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:23 am
by Jelaweb
Don't get me wrong, the Crystal Golems are no longer a problem.
At the time, I had a 4 character party - only one carried a bow and only 1 carried a bludgeoning melee weapon (and a crossbow - ineffective). One had a sling, while the final character had no missile weapons.
There are places which are difficult NOT to get hit, e.g. as soon as you enter the ice temple main entrance - my 2 ranged (bludgeoning) characters couldn't knock the crystal golem down before it got a chance to hit one of the party.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:36 pm
by Philos
That is tricky place

Realize you've already pushed on. You had a tough situation from what you described. I managed to survive it with the golem only getting one hit it. The nuisance Auril Postulants went down with a premptive fireball. I let the golem chase the person it choose to attack around the room. As the target ran around my three characters with bows (& impact arrows) took it down pretty quick. I missed this little trick about impact arrows in my first couple of games and just discovered it with this party by accident on one of the crystal golems in the outside area leading up to the temple. Running around may not be quite the heroic image but when you only have about 40-50 h.p. as a 4th level character sometimes "discretion is the better part of valor." :D

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:58 pm
by kmonster
You only need to win one battle square battle to obtain the key, you can return to do the rest anytime before flying to Kuldahar later, although your cleric shouldn't have problems beating the first levels.

Warriors are best desquatted when they reach an extra attack per round at level6, rogues at level 8.

Squatting less would have been better for your game, because a few chapters later it won't matter if you got a few XP more or less from the Ice Golems, but the money you lost for spending the impact arrows on them will matter.

As long as your average party level is lower than 7 you get the optimal fighting XP, so you have 41 levels to distribute among your 6 party members.
I'd give 10 to the mage for optimal fireballs, 15 to the cleric and leave the rest at level 4.
This way you'll be able to gain enough XP by fighting the respawning skeletons in the Fell Wood labyrinth to desquat all your characters at once to level 30 very fast.

It might be a bit boring to level up never again in the game, but going on having your mighty spellcasters drag along crippled useless low level idiots is even worse.

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:06 pm
by Philos
Thanks

kmonster
You only need to win one battle square battle to obtain the key, you can return to do the rest anytime before flying to Kuldahar later, although your cleric shouldn't have problems beating the first levels.
Thanks yes, I did know that. :) I would just like to go as far as I can though at this point, hopefully at least earn the Mace of Disruption.
Squatting less would have been better for your game, because a few chapters later it won't matter if you got a few XP more or less from the Ice Golems, but the money you lost for spending the impact arrows on them will matter.
I don't know if they are a random item but this party has found either 140 or 160 of them. In defeating 5 of the golems so far I have only used about 40. My archers have good dex and don't often miss, 5 or 6 hits will bring one down. The XP difference is incredible though. I my first game I leveled the party whenever ready and it received something like 2000 xp per golem, nice; BUT this level squatted party has gotten 6000 xp per golem. Three times the amount. For me that seems to make the expenditure of 40 impact arrows worth it. Am I missing something about an item I should buy that those arrows would provide the money for?

Appreciate the level recommendations, thanks.

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:38 am
by silverdragon72
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IIRC you can get even up to 9.000 EXP from one golem, so if you mind about level squatting you should be as low as possible.

Easiest wayfor me was to let my pal 2 - Sorc X attack the golem first (with MI)!

.

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:41 pm
by kmonster
To correct something from the prior posts:

If your average party level is at least 4 and lower than 7 you only get the maximum fighting XP against level1 enemies or weaker, against other enemies full XP is only granted if the average party level is lower than 4.

But I still think that levelling up to average party level of 6.83 (total 41) is the best choice. You still get 2/3 or 3/4 of the maximum XP you would get if the average level is lower than 4.
You might get a little more XP per fight at a total of 35 but with a level 15 cleric (3 APR, many spells) you will be able to fight better and reach level 30 much faster.

About the impact arrows: It's very easy to reach the level cap but gaining extra money is a slow process.
It's always nice if you can buy the great items on your first merchant visit instead of having to come back once you have earned more money. (Although you don't need to buy anything for your high level characters.)

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:10 pm
by Philos
I leveled 1 of my warrior types

Well I tried levelling my paladin. He shot from 4th to 8th. Three others are still unleveled. The next golem I took down earned 5400 XP. A 10% drop from the 6k from the previous ones, so not too bad. I have a save from just before adding those levels, but will probably just press on from here. Will probably do another after finishing the temple or even later.