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Seriously, think about our good friend Jon Irenicus. As Joneleth he goes after the tree of life and is stopped by a half-god and some elves. The second time he goes after the power of the tree, he is countered by 2 half-gods (three if you have Imoen of course), up to 5 incredibly experienced adventurers and some elves. Sure, he might have had a little more help than a sister the second time around but still, how can he hope to succeed at a plan which he already tried and failed to implement?


On another note, I know this is something I gripe about constantly, and I don't really remember any replies to my rants so here goes: Does anyone use the spells Holly Word/Unholy Word? And if so, WHY?

Originally posted by Rodo:
<STRONG>On another note, I know this is something I gripe about constantly, and I don't really remember any replies to my rants so here goes: Does anyone use the spells Holly Word/Unholy Word? And if so, WHY?</STRONG>

Allow me to gripe along.

WHY?

I will also gripe...

Holy Word???!!!!??

Actually, the only level 7 cleric spells I've EVER used are:
1. Resurrection
2. Greater Restoration
3. Nature's Beauty (*druids)

So there you go...what are all those other spells even good for? Some of them sound sort of OK, but even if I have prayed for them, I seem to never end up using them, but I always can use a Resurrection or a Grtr Resto...

and on the other topic - I think Jonny Boy is one of those villains whose tragic flaw is hubris. Even when defeated, he shifts blame to others or to simple bad luck. Therefore, he cannot admit to himelf (typo but funny ha ha) that he will fail, because he never will admit that failing before was his own fault. Every time you show up to foil him, he seems incredulous. It did not even occur to him that failure could happen.

I think one reason for this is the incredibly quick progression of your party
See, at the beginning of the story you escape from his laboratory as an 8th level dude with no money, no decent equipment or anything. Then you show up at the tree of life, and you're like 20th level, with Crom Faer and all this stuff. No wonder he's suprised...If he had just put some adamantine and iron golems in his lab at the beginning, none of this would have happened.

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: THE JAKER ]

The fence in my yard has a DOUBLE POST

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: THE JAKER ]

Firestorm ain't to bad of a 7th lvl spell, IMO.

Seriously, think about our good friend Jon Irenicus. As Joneleth he goes after the tree of life and is stopped by a half-god and some elves. The second time he goes after the power of the tree, he is countered by 2 half-gods (three if you have Imoen of course), up to 5 incredibly experienced adventurers and some elves. Sure, he might have had a little more help than a sister the second time around but still, how can he hope to succeed at a plan which he already tried and failed to implement?

WELL...

As a half-god, you still rely pretty much on your mortal skills. After all, losing your soul didn't have any effect on your butt kicking ability.

This time Irenicus didn't go in alone. After luring out the defenders by attacking their sacred temple, he overwhelmed Suldenessellar with drow, golems and rakshashas, and even a black dragon to boot. He trapped Ellesime in a cage. He almost made it, if it wasn't for your timely intervention where success was never guaranteed. He very nearly succeeded. He prepared himself well, I believe. And don't forget that Irenicus himself has become a 30th level archmage during his exile.

He was also a very powerful mage as an elf. Remember, it was either Ellesime or Dermin that said he was "their best mage".

@THE JAKER - Remember, Irenicus followed your progress through Yoshimo/Bodhi through chapters 2 and 3 and he saw how powerful the party bacame during the battle of the asylum.
I mean, they did almost kill him. He wasn't surprised to see them powerful in Sulldanesselar (I think I managed to spell that right).

@Johnny - It's fairly safe to assume he had help during his first attack, for one thing he had his sister. On the other hand, you need to remmeber that back then he (being Ellesime's boytoy) and his sister (being his sister) had court influence in the city and thus have easy access to the tree without needing the attack force he needed during his second attempt.


Besides, seeing as how it's so EASY to become a god in the Lost Realms shouldn't he hae just tried for a different path if it was so important to him?

Whenever a mortal becomes a god, it's always by stealing some other god's powers. Has any mortal actually become a god the hard way? You know, adventuring until they got a ridiculous amount of experience points? Nah.

Johny->"You know, adventuring until they got a ridiculous amount of experience points? "


Azuth?

Originally posted by Cynik:
<STRONG>Johny->"You know, adventuring until they got a ridiculous amount of experience points? "


Azuth?</STRONG>

What about Cyric...he was actually kind of adventuring, too....well after that he killed a few gods....but who didn't?

Jon has a serious ego trip going on. But then again villians ALWAYS think that they are smarter or tougher than everyone else. I can't tell you how many times I would watch Batman and wonder why the Joker or Catwoman, or whatever villian of the week didn't just SHOOT Batman when he was tied up to whichever death contraption they had him strapped to. Or at least unmask him.....

And thus we contemplate the evilness of the superiority complex.

" And don't forget that Irenicus himself has become a 30th level archmage during his exile. "

??? Ellesime said that he was so strong that he couldn't get stronger w/o divine interferance already before he tried to feed on the Tree of Life the first time.

And, as others have said, he had planned things pretty well with the drow attack and that.

Originally posted by Ro´Jadre:
<STRONG>Ellesime said that he was so strong that he couldn't get stronger w/o divine interferance already before he tried to feed on the Tree of Life the first time.</STRONG>

Odd that (if you install ToB), your party members (Nalia, Edwin, Imoen) will easily surpass his abilities... If simply adventuring with a Bhaalspawn counts as "divine interferance", perhaps Jonny boy should have joined the party. If you can't beat them...

For a level 30 Mage he doesn't know sh*t about spellcasting, BTW.

Originally posted by Xyx:
<STRONG>
For a level 30 Mage he doesn't know sh*t about spellcasting, BTW. </STRONG>

can't agree more with u
(samne counts for a lot of high lvl mages in the game BTW)

Originally posted by TheDude:
<STRONG>samne counts for a lot of high lvl mages in the game BTW</STRONG>

Soon... Plans are in the making...

High level mages? In SoA? All 6 (I counted!) of them (including Jon)?

I think the game can be challenging enough without giving liches the power to look beyond Timestop->Protection from Evil->Meteor Swarm->Gate->Horrid Wilting or the ever so efective symbol projection.

Wait a minute, to my understanding, Gods are IMMORTAL, which means that they never Age or Die. How can mortals kill IMMORTALS?

Well, during the Time of Troubles Cyric killed a few gods, but they were cast down in mortal forms. I guess somehow you have to make their souls vulnerable, which is not an easy task.

Or, if I remember correctly, kill them on their home plane, which is one of the hardest things to do in the entire game.