An Ideal Starting Party?
An Ideal Starting Party?
Hi,
Newbie here (well, I've had the game for ages but I always end up bodging it at the Ice Caverns with the bloodlusted Daemonic Entities (I enter with a wounded character, which makes them go berserk...)...
Anyway, I've recently reinstalled the game and while I can get to Chapter One (well come on! It's Goblins we're talking about!), I can't seem to get my party optimized to what they do best.
My first questions are; is Dexterity worth it on Front Line Fighters in chunky armour (Half-Full-Plate+)? It doesn't seem to do anything, so is it better just to leave my Front-Liners (usually a bunch of human fighters and a Dwarf, but in my last round I experimented a Paladin (and boy did I wish I hadn't... he didn't have the HP to keep up with the beatings people were dishing/dished out).
My second question is; is it worth going into negative stats?
My final question; is it really worth Multiclassing? When I did it when I first played the game, one of my Fighters ended up multiclassing to a Rogue and could use both a bow and a sword, but he wasn't needed with the archers (Mage, Cleric and my other Rogue), and at the same point in time, he couldn't do anything but play Cannon Fodder in combat due to him only getting 10 Hit Points a turn (instead of the 14 my other Fighter was getting, and the 15 my Shield Dwarf Barbarian was recieving).
My last party;
Human Fighter (Can't remember the stats).
Aasimar Paladin
Moon (?) Elf Abjurer (No Burning Hands... ) (I like being able to have Magic Missile, Sleep, Burning Hands (serves 'em right for coming too close!), Shield and Identify in my options when I'm choosing my spells. I've found in Baldur's Gate II (Multiplaying without anyone else) that two Mage Class Characters of different Schools cause havok with my mind (Mage B has Fireball... wait, that's Mage A! GRRR which one of you is Mage A?!)
Aasimar Cleric
Shield Dwarf Barbarian (hehehehe! 17 HP without Toughness! )
Human Rogue (10/18/18/8/8/14 (Yes, I knew the stats for this Character. She did all the speaking, since the Paladin was all far too damn righteous for my liking)
What I need are ideas for Stats for this style of party;
Human Fighter
Human Fighter (To Multi-Class if it's any worth. To what I don't know. Probably a Sorcerer, but I've not figured out how they work, since the last time I took one he couldn't cast Spells...)
Human Cleric
Shield Dwarf Barbarian (I love this guy! With dash and the Executioners Wife he's able to tank three or four Orcs before the others have gotten their second!)
Human/Halfling (whichever has the most possible Dexterity if Halfling. I rarely give them more than Leather Armour (usually +1 Leather Armour, but...)
Elf (Look, I see Elves as the traditional Magickally supreme race... I stick to that tradition, unless you want to give me an Elf Barbarian and a Dwarf Mage!) Wizard (well I don't know how to use Sorcerers... look above to see what happened (He wouldn't cast his Spells...)
Anyway, I'll finish this game some time, hopefully starting when I've got decent stats, and when I know which School of Magic allows me to use my favourite spells;
Burning Hands (Transmutation), Magic Missile (Evocation), Shield (Abjuration), and possibly Chromatic Orb (Evocation) (I always found that effective in Baldur's Gate I).
Agannazar's Scorcher (Evocation), Blur (Illusion), Melf's Acid Arrow (Conjuration), Web (Conjuration).
Dire Charm (Enchantment), Dispell Magic (Abjuration), Fireball (Evocation), Flame Arrow (Conjuration), Lightning Bolt (Evocation), Stinking Cloud (Conjuration), Melf's Minute Meteor's (Evocation), Hold Person (Enchantment), Haste (Transmutation).
So basically Enchantment (luxury/very desirable), Evocation (must), Illusion (luxury), Conjuration (must), Transmutation (must), Abjuration (must).
Necromancy has only one good Spell (Horror) that I've liked before, so Necromancy isn't necessary, however, those Schools are (and it's a pity I can't remember all of them in order to choose myself... it's easier asking like a newbie and making myself look stupid than to accidentally choose the wrong School...
Anyway, thanks for your help, if you decide to give it instead of slapping me with a fish,
Darmort
Newbie here (well, I've had the game for ages but I always end up bodging it at the Ice Caverns with the bloodlusted Daemonic Entities (I enter with a wounded character, which makes them go berserk...)...
Anyway, I've recently reinstalled the game and while I can get to Chapter One (well come on! It's Goblins we're talking about!), I can't seem to get my party optimized to what they do best.
My first questions are; is Dexterity worth it on Front Line Fighters in chunky armour (Half-Full-Plate+)? It doesn't seem to do anything, so is it better just to leave my Front-Liners (usually a bunch of human fighters and a Dwarf, but in my last round I experimented a Paladin (and boy did I wish I hadn't... he didn't have the HP to keep up with the beatings people were dishing/dished out).
My second question is; is it worth going into negative stats?
My final question; is it really worth Multiclassing? When I did it when I first played the game, one of my Fighters ended up multiclassing to a Rogue and could use both a bow and a sword, but he wasn't needed with the archers (Mage, Cleric and my other Rogue), and at the same point in time, he couldn't do anything but play Cannon Fodder in combat due to him only getting 10 Hit Points a turn (instead of the 14 my other Fighter was getting, and the 15 my Shield Dwarf Barbarian was recieving).
My last party;
Human Fighter (Can't remember the stats).
Aasimar Paladin
Moon (?) Elf Abjurer (No Burning Hands... ) (I like being able to have Magic Missile, Sleep, Burning Hands (serves 'em right for coming too close!), Shield and Identify in my options when I'm choosing my spells. I've found in Baldur's Gate II (Multiplaying without anyone else) that two Mage Class Characters of different Schools cause havok with my mind (Mage B has Fireball... wait, that's Mage A! GRRR which one of you is Mage A?!)
Aasimar Cleric
Shield Dwarf Barbarian (hehehehe! 17 HP without Toughness! )
Human Rogue (10/18/18/8/8/14 (Yes, I knew the stats for this Character. She did all the speaking, since the Paladin was all far too damn righteous for my liking)
What I need are ideas for Stats for this style of party;
Human Fighter
Human Fighter (To Multi-Class if it's any worth. To what I don't know. Probably a Sorcerer, but I've not figured out how they work, since the last time I took one he couldn't cast Spells...)
Human Cleric
Shield Dwarf Barbarian (I love this guy! With dash and the Executioners Wife he's able to tank three or four Orcs before the others have gotten their second!)
Human/Halfling (whichever has the most possible Dexterity if Halfling. I rarely give them more than Leather Armour (usually +1 Leather Armour, but...)
Elf (Look, I see Elves as the traditional Magickally supreme race... I stick to that tradition, unless you want to give me an Elf Barbarian and a Dwarf Mage!) Wizard (well I don't know how to use Sorcerers... look above to see what happened (He wouldn't cast his Spells...)
Anyway, I'll finish this game some time, hopefully starting when I've got decent stats, and when I know which School of Magic allows me to use my favourite spells;
Burning Hands (Transmutation), Magic Missile (Evocation), Shield (Abjuration), and possibly Chromatic Orb (Evocation) (I always found that effective in Baldur's Gate I).
Agannazar's Scorcher (Evocation), Blur (Illusion), Melf's Acid Arrow (Conjuration), Web (Conjuration).
Dire Charm (Enchantment), Dispell Magic (Abjuration), Fireball (Evocation), Flame Arrow (Conjuration), Lightning Bolt (Evocation), Stinking Cloud (Conjuration), Melf's Minute Meteor's (Evocation), Hold Person (Enchantment), Haste (Transmutation).
So basically Enchantment (luxury/very desirable), Evocation (must), Illusion (luxury), Conjuration (must), Transmutation (must), Abjuration (must).
Necromancy has only one good Spell (Horror) that I've liked before, so Necromancy isn't necessary, however, those Schools are (and it's a pity I can't remember all of them in order to choose myself... it's easier asking like a newbie and making myself look stupid than to accidentally choose the wrong School...
Anyway, thanks for your help, if you decide to give it instead of slapping me with a fish,
Darmort
- Raven_Song
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 am
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In short no - if you know you are planning to limit them to one type of armour (heavy, medium or light) they only really need enough dexterity to give them the maxumum bonus for that type - for heavy armour I believe that is 12 (for the +1 bonus)My first questions are; is Dexterity worth it on Front Line Fighters in chunky armour (Half-Full-Plate+)?
If you do intend to do this, the safest abilities to pillage are Charisma and Intelligence but as I'm not into power-gaming I won't say anything else.My second question is; is it worth going into negative stats?
It all depends on personal preference and playing style.My final question; is it really worth Multiclassing?
Fighter/Sorcerer not a good combo - read the mutli-classing sticky for some adviceHuman Fighter (To Multi-Class if it's any worth. To what I don't know. Probably a Sorcerer, but I've not figured out how they work, since the last time I took one he couldn't cast Spells...)
Sorcerers spells are dependent upon their Charisma (unlike BG2) so you need 10+X to be able to cast X level spells e.g. to cast 6th level spells you need a charisma of 16. They also learn spells automatically, as they level up, but unlike in BG2 you cannot delete spells once learned.(well I don't know how to use Sorcerers... look above to see what happened (He wouldn't cast his Spells...)
Actually the most deadly wizard magics are all Necromancy (Horrid Wilting, Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee) so you might want to reconsider on that.Necromancy has only one good Spell (Horror) that I've liked before, so Necromancy isn't necessary, however
Right, that's saved me 8 Stat Points so my Frontliners Characters'll look like this;
18/10/18/10/10/10 (depending on whether Wisdom is actually worth anything... I read something about it helping with Armour Class in a brief reading through the Forum).
Then my Mage is probably going to be (if Human);
10/18/18/18/9/3
10/20/16/18/9/3 if Elf (I don't go in for Wild Elf/Dark Elf Magi)
Ah. Now... erm... Sorcerer Stats on a human;
8/12/12/18/8/18 (Not sure if they need Intelligence or not... if not drop that down to Constitution and Dexterity)?
Meh, I've looked at the Necromancy Spells, and some of them look pretty stonky, but I've never liked the idea of just casting a Spell and making everyone go "Ugh! My... spleen!"
Would you suggest a Diviner (gets rid of lovely Conjuration Spells like Mage Armour, Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow, Web, et cetera, but any other School involves loosing a REALLY useful School), or a Sorcerer, or both (Yes, this involves getting rid of a tank, but I can always send a Cleric in. They're pretty decent fighters).
The Stats for my Tanks;
18/10/18/10/10/10 (Human Fighter with Snake Blood, Power Attack and Toughness)
18/10/20/10/10/8 (Dwarf Barbarian with Power Attack or Dash, I haven't decided which yet)
I believe in my first party I had these two guys and they'd go up and tank just about anything on two legs (if it had more, they'd just tank it anyway).
General idea for the party now;
Human Fighter (Tank number one)
Dwarf Barbarian (Tank number DOOM) (Seriously, this guy really is a one man tank...)
Human Cleric (Which God...? Helm always looked good, but the others' skills and abilities aren't actually bad (bearing in mine I have decided no Ultimate Evil/Ultimate Good Characters, so the most of the party will be Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good. The odd True Neutral, maybe...)
Elf Diviner (Burbye, my Conjuration Spells) (I'd rather miss out on Conjuration than Evocation, Transmutation and Abjuration)
Human/Halfling Rogue
Human/Half-Elf Fighter (Tank number Three)/Sorcerer (Does whatever the Diviner can't)
Divination may seem like a useless School, but in it's defence, it DOES allow me to use my favourite Schools, except for Conjuration, and gives me several luxuries; Identify, some of those UBER-Death Necromatic Spells, and Spells like Mirror Image (these things can really save a Mage's hiney when all those copies appear).
One thing; is Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Finence any use on non-Rangers (IE, Dwarf Barbarian with two Magical Axes).
Okay, it's official, I've asked my quota of questions this tenday... O.O
18/10/18/10/10/10 (depending on whether Wisdom is actually worth anything... I read something about it helping with Armour Class in a brief reading through the Forum).
Then my Mage is probably going to be (if Human);
10/18/18/18/9/3
10/20/16/18/9/3 if Elf (I don't go in for Wild Elf/Dark Elf Magi)
Ah. Now... erm... Sorcerer Stats on a human;
8/12/12/18/8/18 (Not sure if they need Intelligence or not... if not drop that down to Constitution and Dexterity)?
Meh, I've looked at the Necromancy Spells, and some of them look pretty stonky, but I've never liked the idea of just casting a Spell and making everyone go "Ugh! My... spleen!"
Would you suggest a Diviner (gets rid of lovely Conjuration Spells like Mage Armour, Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow, Web, et cetera, but any other School involves loosing a REALLY useful School), or a Sorcerer, or both (Yes, this involves getting rid of a tank, but I can always send a Cleric in. They're pretty decent fighters).
The Stats for my Tanks;
18/10/18/10/10/10 (Human Fighter with Snake Blood, Power Attack and Toughness)
18/10/20/10/10/8 (Dwarf Barbarian with Power Attack or Dash, I haven't decided which yet)
I believe in my first party I had these two guys and they'd go up and tank just about anything on two legs (if it had more, they'd just tank it anyway).
General idea for the party now;
Human Fighter (Tank number one)
Dwarf Barbarian (Tank number DOOM) (Seriously, this guy really is a one man tank...)
Human Cleric (Which God...? Helm always looked good, but the others' skills and abilities aren't actually bad (bearing in mine I have decided no Ultimate Evil/Ultimate Good Characters, so the most of the party will be Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good. The odd True Neutral, maybe...)
Elf Diviner (Burbye, my Conjuration Spells) (I'd rather miss out on Conjuration than Evocation, Transmutation and Abjuration)
Human/Halfling Rogue
Human/Half-Elf Fighter (Tank number Three)/Sorcerer (Does whatever the Diviner can't)
Divination may seem like a useless School, but in it's defence, it DOES allow me to use my favourite Schools, except for Conjuration, and gives me several luxuries; Identify, some of those UBER-Death Necromatic Spells, and Spells like Mirror Image (these things can really save a Mage's hiney when all those copies appear).
One thing; is Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Finence any use on non-Rangers (IE, Dwarf Barbarian with two Magical Axes).
Okay, it's official, I've asked my quota of questions this tenday... O.O
- Raven_Song
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 am
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Wisdom affects Will saving throws so it is far from useless ... it only helps Monks with Armour classdepending on whether Wisdom is actually worth anything... I read something about it helping with Armour Class in a brief reading through the Forum).
Sorcerers do not Intelligence as such although if you want them to double as a diplomat, you might want a few extra points to allow you to develop these skills as well as the traditional concentration and spellcraft.Ah. Now... erm... Sorcerer Stats on a human;
8/12/12/18/8/18 (Not sure if they need Intelligence or not... if not drop that down to Constitution and Dexterity)?
Both Mage and Sorcerer - magic is generally thought to be preferable to melee. Mage specialism is purely preference, personally I dislike Evocation magics so I generally play as an Enchanter.Would you suggest a Diviner (gets rid of lovely Conjuration Spells like Mage Armour, Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow, Web, et cetera, but any other School involves loosing a REALLY useful School), or a Sorcerer, or both (Yes, this involves getting rid of a tank, but I can always send a Cleric in. They're pretty decent fighters).
Human Cleric (Which God...?
If you plan your cleric to be more melee orientated, then Helm or Tempus are considered preferable (if you go for the latter you might consider making them a Half-Orc or Shield Dwarf.)
Well from what I recall there aren't that many great shields in the game, however personally I only ever use dual wielding with short blades and weapon finesse so I can't really comment too much on this, however bear in mind there are some quite handy two-handed weapons.One thing; is Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Finence any use on non-Rangers (IE, Dwarf Barbarian with two Magical Axes).
- Philos
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:07 pm
- Location: Near the house that Elvis built
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Cleric of Lathander perhaps
For your cleric you might consider having them be a cleric of Lathander. I haven't tried all the cleric choices yet (4 to date) but so far I am partial to them. They get get some really great domain spells, possibly the best offensive ones IMHO. Fire Storm in particular. It is an 8th level spell that clerics of Lathander get as a 6th level domain spell. They also get Bull Strength (when used on an 18 strength fighter he has 23 strength IIRC on average and it lasts for a long time). Extra flame strike if desired, etc. Seemed like every level domain spell was one I liked and regularly used.
For your cleric you might consider having them be a cleric of Lathander. I haven't tried all the cleric choices yet (4 to date) but so far I am partial to them. They get get some really great domain spells, possibly the best offensive ones IMHO. Fire Storm in particular. It is an 8th level spell that clerics of Lathander get as a 6th level domain spell. They also get Bull Strength (when used on an 18 strength fighter he has 23 strength IIRC on average and it lasts for a long time). Extra flame strike if desired, etc. Seemed like every level domain spell was one I liked and regularly used.
UNCOMMON VALOR WAS A COMMON VIRTUE
Long Post ahead!..
WISDOM
Ok, so you want to know about wisdom? Monks use it to get their AC bonus, divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, rangers) need it for spellcasting, in the same way as a sorcerer needs charisma (as explained by Raven_Song).
Saving Throws:
Dexterity = Reflex; Constitution = Fortitude; Wisdom = Will.
These are used when an enemy spellcaster casts spells on you. In other words, a fighter with a low wisdom is going to get charmed quite easily (Charm Person requires a Will save) - you don't really want this do you?
The powergaming fighter usually goes along the lines of "Max STR, DEX, CON and WIS - minimize everything else". This makes sure the saving throws are nice and high (after all, they are the ones who are going to be hit most by spells), but does limit some multi-classing possibilities.
CLERICS
What do you want your cleric to do? Is he/she based on attack spells or defnsive spells? For attack, Stormlords of Talos (electric!) and Lorekeepers of Oghma (at high levels) are best. If you like fire, then a Morninglord of Lathander it should be. Dreadmasters of Bane are great if you like enchanting your enemies, whereas Silverstars of Selune and Demarches of Mask are good if you like conjuring up beasties to do the dirty work for you. Of course you could just have a Battleguard of Tempus as another melee unit...
For defense, Demarches of Mask (my favourite!) have some neat domain spells (Blur, Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility), as do Painbearers of Ilmater (Emotion: Hope and Stoneskin). Watcher's of Helm are probably the best (with Helm's Watch (+2 AC) and Helms Shield (+2 to saving throws)), but only at high levels (Iron Body/Seven Eyes & Aegis).
As I say, it is about what you want this character to do (besides healing).
WIZARDS
The best solution to your magic school problem (as you have already thought about) is to have 2 spellcasters - that way certain spells can be ignored by one or the other. The only considerations required are the "self-cast only" spells (e.g Blur).
I personally think you have far too many fighters. As most people find out, the fighters are good in the beginning, but by the end of the game, they are weak - compared to the "I can kill you in a click of my fingers" spellcaster (not quite, but you get the message).
I disagree somewhat with RS about the fighter/sorcerer. Admittedly, a fighter/wizard is better - but it all depends on what the character will do. If he/she stays out of harms way, casting spells, then this dual-class is nearly (not quite) pointless. However, with just a few well chosen high-level mage spells, this character can become a better "fighter" than any pure-class fighter.
However, if you want want to multi-class one of your fighters, it would do no harm to have a 2nd cleric.
Divination is NOT a useless school. As you play the game more - learning which spells are the most useful (arcane AND divine) - you will eventually find it increasingly difficult NOT to pick Divination!
2-Weapon Fighting: It will cost you two feats (2 fighter levels instead of 1 ranger level), but a non-ranger can wear ANY armour. The ranger level is ideal for light armoured characters (thieves or those crazy wizard-tanks) or those that wear no armour (monks).
As a final point - unless you are planning to use sneak attacks a LOT, consider tweaking your "pure-class" rogue a bit.
WISDOM
Ok, so you want to know about wisdom? Monks use it to get their AC bonus, divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, rangers) need it for spellcasting, in the same way as a sorcerer needs charisma (as explained by Raven_Song).
Saving Throws:
Dexterity = Reflex; Constitution = Fortitude; Wisdom = Will.
These are used when an enemy spellcaster casts spells on you. In other words, a fighter with a low wisdom is going to get charmed quite easily (Charm Person requires a Will save) - you don't really want this do you?
The powergaming fighter usually goes along the lines of "Max STR, DEX, CON and WIS - minimize everything else". This makes sure the saving throws are nice and high (after all, they are the ones who are going to be hit most by spells), but does limit some multi-classing possibilities.
CLERICS
What do you want your cleric to do? Is he/she based on attack spells or defnsive spells? For attack, Stormlords of Talos (electric!) and Lorekeepers of Oghma (at high levels) are best. If you like fire, then a Morninglord of Lathander it should be. Dreadmasters of Bane are great if you like enchanting your enemies, whereas Silverstars of Selune and Demarches of Mask are good if you like conjuring up beasties to do the dirty work for you. Of course you could just have a Battleguard of Tempus as another melee unit...
For defense, Demarches of Mask (my favourite!) have some neat domain spells (Blur, Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility), as do Painbearers of Ilmater (Emotion: Hope and Stoneskin). Watcher's of Helm are probably the best (with Helm's Watch (+2 AC) and Helms Shield (+2 to saving throws)), but only at high levels (Iron Body/Seven Eyes & Aegis).
As I say, it is about what you want this character to do (besides healing).
WIZARDS
The best solution to your magic school problem (as you have already thought about) is to have 2 spellcasters - that way certain spells can be ignored by one or the other. The only considerations required are the "self-cast only" spells (e.g Blur).
I personally think you have far too many fighters. As most people find out, the fighters are good in the beginning, but by the end of the game, they are weak - compared to the "I can kill you in a click of my fingers" spellcaster (not quite, but you get the message).
I disagree somewhat with RS about the fighter/sorcerer. Admittedly, a fighter/wizard is better - but it all depends on what the character will do. If he/she stays out of harms way, casting spells, then this dual-class is nearly (not quite) pointless. However, with just a few well chosen high-level mage spells, this character can become a better "fighter" than any pure-class fighter.
However, if you want want to multi-class one of your fighters, it would do no harm to have a 2nd cleric.
Divination is NOT a useless school. As you play the game more - learning which spells are the most useful (arcane AND divine) - you will eventually find it increasingly difficult NOT to pick Divination!
2-Weapon Fighting: It will cost you two feats (2 fighter levels instead of 1 ranger level), but a non-ranger can wear ANY armour. The ranger level is ideal for light armoured characters (thieves or those crazy wizard-tanks) or those that wear no armour (monks).
As a final point - unless you are planning to use sneak attacks a LOT, consider tweaking your "pure-class" rogue a bit.
Hehehehe! Flame Strike! One of my more favoured Spells of old Baldur's Gate II/2nd Edition!
Now... my party;
Dael Loninark, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Human Fighter (Pure)
18 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 4 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 8 Charisma.
Borin Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Shield Dwarf Barbarian (Pure?)
18 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 6 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 4 Charisma.
These two have a job: Take big swords and axes, and their favourite words are, to borrow some; "Swords not words!" Run at enemies howling insane battle cries such as "RRRRARGGGGHHH!" and "You'll soon sleep with the dead!" Not the brightest of fish, but that's because they've been at the kegs too long far too many times.
Silune Brightstar, 1st Level Neutral Good Human Female Cleric, Morning Lady of Lathander
13 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 9 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 10 Charisma
Her primary mission is to bolster people with Bless, heal people (The front-line one man-army Tanks), and to kill the odd annoying Goblin/Orc you can't quite get to. While she's also none to bright, she does think things through before the others and is better at diplomacy than her fighter companions are, who work more through Intimidation than anything. She's a Semi-Fighter/Ranged Character, so she'll have a fast shooting weapon that she can use to weaken things until they get close, then bring out a mace/hammer and have at the enemy. She's a disciplined fighter.
Selan Loninark, 1st Level Chaotic Good Moon Elf Female Diviner
10 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 15 Constitution, 18 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
For some reason, Selan has never had people skills. She's arrogent, rude, and downright agressive when she's just tired herself our with her Spells. How she came to be married to Dael is unknown. Her primary role in the party is to provide the guns for the party; Magic Missiles, Chromatic Orbs and Ice Daggers all. She also has a Shield Spell in reserve in case she ends up having to go into close combat once her Bow/Crossbow/Sling runs out of ammo (hardly! I'll be buying the ammo by the eighteen score! Per shooty Character!).
Melinar Worlok, 1st Level Chaotic Good Human Female Sorceress
10 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 17 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 18 Charisma
Melinar is that one character that everyone hates and loves. She's not exactly on terms with the term "cold," this is because she's never known what warm is. She isn't nice, but she knows how to use her words and her body to get her way, and because of this, Dael appointed her the Wordlock. Her primary role is to send things to sleep or support Selan with another Magic Missile.
Kaileen Vinisae, 1st Level Lawful Neutral Human Female Rogue
10 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 10 Charisma
The Rogue, and the one that is given the ones of scouting out the enemy then delivering the firebomb. She hates the job, and would gladly give it to Melinar if she thought she could get away with it. But no, she deals with it and instead goes around sniping Goblins, Orcs and Ogres alike because she's bored.
Anyway, that's that...
And Jel, if that's long, what do you call short? Mine are roughly the size of your posts and I could easily post a longer rant if I had the experience of such a thing (Warhammer, for instance)...
Comments on the party?
Now... my party;
Dael Loninark, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Human Fighter (Pure)
18 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 4 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 8 Charisma.
Borin Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Shield Dwarf Barbarian (Pure?)
18 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 6 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 4 Charisma.
These two have a job: Take big swords and axes, and their favourite words are, to borrow some; "Swords not words!" Run at enemies howling insane battle cries such as "RRRRARGGGGHHH!" and "You'll soon sleep with the dead!" Not the brightest of fish, but that's because they've been at the kegs too long far too many times.
Silune Brightstar, 1st Level Neutral Good Human Female Cleric, Morning Lady of Lathander
13 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 9 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 10 Charisma
Her primary mission is to bolster people with Bless, heal people (The front-line one man-army Tanks), and to kill the odd annoying Goblin/Orc you can't quite get to. While she's also none to bright, she does think things through before the others and is better at diplomacy than her fighter companions are, who work more through Intimidation than anything. She's a Semi-Fighter/Ranged Character, so she'll have a fast shooting weapon that she can use to weaken things until they get close, then bring out a mace/hammer and have at the enemy. She's a disciplined fighter.
Selan Loninark, 1st Level Chaotic Good Moon Elf Female Diviner
10 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 15 Constitution, 18 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
For some reason, Selan has never had people skills. She's arrogent, rude, and downright agressive when she's just tired herself our with her Spells. How she came to be married to Dael is unknown. Her primary role in the party is to provide the guns for the party; Magic Missiles, Chromatic Orbs and Ice Daggers all. She also has a Shield Spell in reserve in case she ends up having to go into close combat once her Bow/Crossbow/Sling runs out of ammo (hardly! I'll be buying the ammo by the eighteen score! Per shooty Character!).
Melinar Worlok, 1st Level Chaotic Good Human Female Sorceress
10 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 17 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 18 Charisma
Melinar is that one character that everyone hates and loves. She's not exactly on terms with the term "cold," this is because she's never known what warm is. She isn't nice, but she knows how to use her words and her body to get her way, and because of this, Dael appointed her the Wordlock. Her primary role is to send things to sleep or support Selan with another Magic Missile.
Kaileen Vinisae, 1st Level Lawful Neutral Human Female Rogue
10 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 10 Charisma
The Rogue, and the one that is given the ones of scouting out the enemy then delivering the firebomb. She hates the job, and would gladly give it to Melinar if she thought she could get away with it. But no, she deals with it and instead goes around sniping Goblins, Orcs and Ogres alike because she's bored.
Anyway, that's that...
And Jel, if that's long, what do you call short? Mine are roughly the size of your posts and I could easily post a longer rant if I had the experience of such a thing (Warhammer, for instance)...
Comments on the party?
I would give 13-14 dexterity to the tanks, since many useful feats like rapid shot, dodge and dirty fighting require at least 13 dex. Full plates allow +1 dex bonus, so you should have at least 12 anyway. Lower int and cha, they're useless for fighters.
I would make the fighter lawful good, so you can add 2-3 paladin levels. The immunity to fear, the aura and other bonusses paladins can get help a lot, even without spellcasting or cha bonus.
The cleric's deity isn't very important, it's mainly one bonus spell per level. I like battleguard the most since I don't want to cast mage spells with my cleric, the domain spells are useful and axes are great.
If you want to multiclass your sorcerer, take paladin levels. You get your high cha modifier as AC and saving throw bonus.
Two-weapon fighting isn't even worth it for rangers who get the feats for free. Two-handed weapons or rapid shot are far more useful.
I'd rather keep the sorcerer pure and multiclass the diviner since you won't find scrolls as fast as you'd like to.
Stat suggestions for your party:
LG human paladin3/fighter x: 18-14-18-8-10-8
(I'd prefer an aasimar with 18-13-18-8-8-15)
dwarf barbarian: 18-14-20-8-10-6
human battleguard: 14-14-14-8-18-8 (I'd take a dwarf with more con and less cha instead)
elf diviner: 8-18-16-18-8-8
halfling rogue: 16-16-14-12-10-8
human sorcerer(diplomat): 8-14-16-12-8-18
If you don't mind very low stats lower int for your fighters and cleric to 3 and lower cha as much as possible for everyone but your sorcerer and paladin to gain extra points to increase the important stats.
I would make the fighter lawful good, so you can add 2-3 paladin levels. The immunity to fear, the aura and other bonusses paladins can get help a lot, even without spellcasting or cha bonus.
The cleric's deity isn't very important, it's mainly one bonus spell per level. I like battleguard the most since I don't want to cast mage spells with my cleric, the domain spells are useful and axes are great.
If you want to multiclass your sorcerer, take paladin levels. You get your high cha modifier as AC and saving throw bonus.
Two-weapon fighting isn't even worth it for rangers who get the feats for free. Two-handed weapons or rapid shot are far more useful.
I'd rather keep the sorcerer pure and multiclass the diviner since you won't find scrolls as fast as you'd like to.
Stat suggestions for your party:
LG human paladin3/fighter x: 18-14-18-8-10-8
(I'd prefer an aasimar with 18-13-18-8-8-15)
dwarf barbarian: 18-14-20-8-10-6
human battleguard: 14-14-14-8-18-8 (I'd take a dwarf with more con and less cha instead)
elf diviner: 8-18-16-18-8-8
halfling rogue: 16-16-14-12-10-8
human sorcerer(diplomat): 8-14-16-12-8-18
If you don't mind very low stats lower int for your fighters and cleric to 3 and lower cha as much as possible for everyone but your sorcerer and paladin to gain extra points to increase the important stats.
No Lawful Good. No Paladins. I hate them all whining at me when I have to kill something I'm not supposed to (Baldur's Gate gimps...).
No Aasimar's either. I dislike having someone who's constantly 1-2 Levels behind everyone else. More often than not, it's the lack of Hit Points that they have.
As I said, no Paladins. Self-righteous, uptight, pompous, arrogent... erm, I won't go on in the interests of public sanity...
Aww, I was hoping for a Dwarf Barbarian with dual Magic Axes... nevermind.
I learnt (from Baldur's Gate) to never Multi/Dual Class a Mage. That might have been because of the Armour Bonus/Limit for them, but I also find a Mage with some rediculus ability to suddenly pray to a God or be able to draw a sword and call him/herself a gift of Myrkul...
Revised Party;
Dael Loninark, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Human Fighter
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Charisma.
Borin Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Shield Dwarf Barbarian
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma.
Braeni Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Shield Dwarf Female Cleric, Morning Dwarfess of Lathander
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma
(Well since she doesn't need Intelligence or Charisma... right?)
Selan Loninark, 1st Level Chaotic Good Moon Elf Female Diviner
9 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 18 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
(Kept her the same because this is what I always used as a Mage... only usually I don't think she was a Diviner... But she works well as she is. Well, I took 1 Strength away and put it on Constitution, but other than that, it's the same. I still doubt whether the people of Ten-Towns would actually welcome an Elf, so the Charisma stays)
Kaileen Vinisae, 1st Level Chaotic Good Strongheart Halfling Female Rogue
12 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 13 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
(I figured that Halflings are like the Forgotten Realms' Kender, so while they are all friendly, I doubt anyone would actually like socializing with one due to their thief-like tendancies.
Melindrae Worlok, 1st Level Chaotic Good Human Female Sorceress
8 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 4 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 18 Charisma
(She's been modded about a bit, but nothing major. Not much strength, which annoys me, but other than that, it's fine)
Hint taken to heart. Unimportant stats lowered, important ones heightened.
Anyway, this party seems to be a good party in terms of Character Strength-To-Abilities, so I'll try it out (and reach the Shengaerne before making my decision).
Thanks for your help, guys.
Darmort
No Aasimar's either. I dislike having someone who's constantly 1-2 Levels behind everyone else. More often than not, it's the lack of Hit Points that they have.
As I said, no Paladins. Self-righteous, uptight, pompous, arrogent... erm, I won't go on in the interests of public sanity...
Aww, I was hoping for a Dwarf Barbarian with dual Magic Axes... nevermind.
I learnt (from Baldur's Gate) to never Multi/Dual Class a Mage. That might have been because of the Armour Bonus/Limit for them, but I also find a Mage with some rediculus ability to suddenly pray to a God or be able to draw a sword and call him/herself a gift of Myrkul...
Revised Party;
Dael Loninark, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Human Fighter
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Charisma.
Borin Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Male Shield Dwarf Barbarian
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma.
Braeni Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Shield Dwarf Female Cleric, Morning Dwarfess of Lathander
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma
(Well since she doesn't need Intelligence or Charisma... right?)
Selan Loninark, 1st Level Chaotic Good Moon Elf Female Diviner
9 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 18 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
(Kept her the same because this is what I always used as a Mage... only usually I don't think she was a Diviner... But she works well as she is. Well, I took 1 Strength away and put it on Constitution, but other than that, it's the same. I still doubt whether the people of Ten-Towns would actually welcome an Elf, so the Charisma stays)
Kaileen Vinisae, 1st Level Chaotic Good Strongheart Halfling Female Rogue
12 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 13 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
(I figured that Halflings are like the Forgotten Realms' Kender, so while they are all friendly, I doubt anyone would actually like socializing with one due to their thief-like tendancies.
Melindrae Worlok, 1st Level Chaotic Good Human Female Sorceress
8 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 4 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 18 Charisma
(She's been modded about a bit, but nothing major. Not much strength, which annoys me, but other than that, it's fine)
Hint taken to heart. Unimportant stats lowered, important ones heightened.
Anyway, this party seems to be a good party in terms of Character Strength-To-Abilities, so I'll try it out (and reach the Shengaerne before making my decision).
Thanks for your help, guys.
Darmort
- Raven_Song
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My line of thought was that if you plan to add a combat realted to sorcerer then you're better going with, as kmonster suggested, a paladin/sorcerer, as there abilities mesh more easily, but meh at the end of the day its all preference.I disagree somewhat with RS about the fighter/sorcerer. Admittedly, a fighter/wizard is better - but it all depends on what the character will do.
It is if they don't have particularly great strength, and are combining dual wielding with small blades and wepaon finesse but then there are only a relatively small number of builds thasn can make use of this effectively.Two-weapon fighting isn't even worth it for rangers who get the feats for free. Two-handed weapons or rapid shot are far more useful.
Humans are better choice for Morninglord of Lathander because you can reduce her INT to 3, not that I condone that sort of thing, and because of the extra skill point per level you can invest in both concentration and spellcraft (which is required for the Spirit of Flame feat to maximise on a Lathanderan's use of fire magics)Braeni Stonesworth, 1st Level Neutral Good Shield Dwarf Female Cleric, Morning Dwarfess of Lathander
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma
(Well since she doesn't need Intelligence or Charisma... right?)
.Kaileen Vinisae, 1st Level Chaotic Good Strongheart Halfling Female Rogue
12 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 13 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
(I figured that Halflings are like the Forgotten Realms' Kender, so while they are all friendly, I doubt anyone would actually like socializing with one due to their thief-like tendancies
You'll find that latr in the game this character has relatively little to do, a single class rogues are not particularly useful or popular in IWD2.
Forget what you learned in Baldur's Gate, the two games are completely different using two completely different sets of rules.I learnt (from Baldur's Gate) to never Multi/Dual Class a Mage.
New Cleric;
Silune Brightstar, 1st Level Neutral Good Human Female Cleric
14 Strength, 13 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Wisdom
4 Ranks went into Spellcraft, the other two into Concentration. She's a well disciplined, snake blooded person.
I think I have the Rogue more for a Role Playing Aspect, + for someone who can scout out unknown enemy forces that I can sneak into the middle of and drop a few Fireballs (Sorcerer+Mage+Firebomb Potions=Ouch on everything). Maybe a Monk or a Ranger or a Barbarian (yes, Halfling Barbarian!). That's a maybe. I like Halfling Rogues... want to trade recipes?
Meh, I've found that a Mage can't exactly keep up with a Fighter in life, even with a Rank in Toughness every Level Possible, you can get a maximum of 12 Hit Points. A human Fighter can start off with 23 Hit Points and get 17 more for the next two Levels, and then 14 after that. In five Levels a Mage can get a possible 60, in five Levels a Fighter can get a possible 85. Notice the large difference there? The Mage'll be too far behind to be able to keep up after that. Especially when mine's an Elf Mage with only 7 Hit Points a Level. They also lack the attacking power a Fighter will have; when they go Fighter they won't have things like Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave or Dash (because no one in their right minds gives a Mage that sort of ability unless they have a Baldur's Gate II Killsword).
Anyway, I'll run this party through Targos and see what happens, and see if I like.
Silune Brightstar, 1st Level Neutral Good Human Female Cleric
14 Strength, 13 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Wisdom
4 Ranks went into Spellcraft, the other two into Concentration. She's a well disciplined, snake blooded person.
I think I have the Rogue more for a Role Playing Aspect, + for someone who can scout out unknown enemy forces that I can sneak into the middle of and drop a few Fireballs (Sorcerer+Mage+Firebomb Potions=Ouch on everything). Maybe a Monk or a Ranger or a Barbarian (yes, Halfling Barbarian!). That's a maybe. I like Halfling Rogues... want to trade recipes?
Meh, I've found that a Mage can't exactly keep up with a Fighter in life, even with a Rank in Toughness every Level Possible, you can get a maximum of 12 Hit Points. A human Fighter can start off with 23 Hit Points and get 17 more for the next two Levels, and then 14 after that. In five Levels a Mage can get a possible 60, in five Levels a Fighter can get a possible 85. Notice the large difference there? The Mage'll be too far behind to be able to keep up after that. Especially when mine's an Elf Mage with only 7 Hit Points a Level. They also lack the attacking power a Fighter will have; when they go Fighter they won't have things like Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave or Dash (because no one in their right minds gives a Mage that sort of ability unless they have a Baldur's Gate II Killsword).
Anyway, I'll run this party through Targos and see what happens, and see if I like.
Darmot, you are looking too much into the short term...
As for hit points, they only really matter in three instances:
1) The beginning
2) Power Word: Kill (100 HP negates an instant death)
3) Symbol of Death (150 combined HP or high Fortitude saves negates this)
Sure, HPs are important, but with healing potions, healing spells and resting, this becomes less of an issue as the game progresses.
As you level up, the mages will get potential spells to stop enemies either hitting you (Mirror Image, Blink, etc), or causing damage (Stoneskin, Iron Body, etc). As a result, your mages EASILY keep up with your fighters. Every time I play, it is my tanks that die NOT my "puny" arcane spellcasters!
Now let us compare the "attacking" potential of a spellcaster. Once you get Delayed Blast Fireball (Wizard level 14), you can deal up to 112 points in damage for EVERY enemy (excluding Spirit of Flame feat) in a 30 foot radius. Compare that with a fighters damage output...
...as for melee, a fighter can deal more damage, but hitting? Let us compare the wizard with the fighter - same strength, no additional feats, and first attack bonus:
Wizard with Tensor's Transformation (level 11) cast = +10.
Fighter = +11.
However, Tensor's gives you 2-8 additional strength, so the wizard's attack bonus will actually be between +11 and +14. And every even level beyond that, the wizard will have a higher AB (by 1-5). Hence the possibility of the fighter/sorcerer combo (Tensor's Transformation is not a particularly common scroll)...
As for hit points, they only really matter in three instances:
1) The beginning
2) Power Word: Kill (100 HP negates an instant death)
3) Symbol of Death (150 combined HP or high Fortitude saves negates this)
Sure, HPs are important, but with healing potions, healing spells and resting, this becomes less of an issue as the game progresses.
As you level up, the mages will get potential spells to stop enemies either hitting you (Mirror Image, Blink, etc), or causing damage (Stoneskin, Iron Body, etc). As a result, your mages EASILY keep up with your fighters. Every time I play, it is my tanks that die NOT my "puny" arcane spellcasters!
Now let us compare the "attacking" potential of a spellcaster. Once you get Delayed Blast Fireball (Wizard level 14), you can deal up to 112 points in damage for EVERY enemy (excluding Spirit of Flame feat) in a 30 foot radius. Compare that with a fighters damage output...
...as for melee, a fighter can deal more damage, but hitting? Let us compare the wizard with the fighter - same strength, no additional feats, and first attack bonus:
Wizard with Tensor's Transformation (level 11) cast = +10.
Fighter = +11.
However, Tensor's gives you 2-8 additional strength, so the wizard's attack bonus will actually be between +11 and +14. And every even level beyond that, the wizard will have a higher AB (by 1-5). Hence the possibility of the fighter/sorcerer combo (Tensor's Transformation is not a particularly common scroll)...
- Raven_Song
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 am
- Contact:
Jelaweb's right - I've just been playing the game with a gnomish illusioninst who started with just 4 HP, even now she only has 16, and to my recollection she has yet to be hit.Sure, HPs are important, but with healing potions, healing spells and resting, this becomes less of an issue as the game progresses.
Oh and for future reference Snake Blood is one of the most useless feats in the game.She's a well disciplined, snake blooded person.
@Darmont
Your newly created cleric is far weaker then the first version.
IMHO it's not worth spending many skill points and a feat to improve the effect of a few bonus spells a little (you can only cast one domain spell per level per day ).
The main task for your cleric is surviving and healing, the dwarf bonusses would help a lot.
But even if you want to get the feat 3 int is enough for a human. You get the same amount of skill points per level as with 10 int, you just have to spend 14 instead of 10 points in spellcraft which can easily be done parallel to keeping concentration as high as possible.
I would make dex higher than 13 because you can find 1 potion which trades 1 dex for 2 wis during the game and you loose the rapid shot feat if your dex decreases from 13 to 12.
Unlike in 2e games pure rogues are not bad in IWD2, you get 1-6 extra sneak attack damage for each two levels and extra thief unique feats every 3 levels starting at level 10. You loose a lot if you multiclass.
I'd increase strength for even more fun with sneak attacks, dex isn't very important. Int is more important for thieving skills and the maximum dex modifier for leather armor is reached far too soon, especially with the cat's grace spell.
Envenom weapon is a nice feat if your alchemy skill is high enough.
About your sorceress:
I would take a point from int to strength, because of the bull's strength spell 9 str is better than 8 while it doesn't matter it you have 3 or 4 int.
You have to decide how you want to spend the second skill point you get per level.
Roleplayers would take "mercantile background" and diplomacy skills to improve the party diplomat.
Powergamers would take greater spell focusses and increase spellcraft for the elemental feats.
Having the diviner cast "eagle's splendor" spell at the sorceress helps greatly both for diplomacy and spell power. 22+ cha should allow many positive encounter reactions even without having to spend points in diplomacy skills.
You don't have to pick useless conjuration spells just because your diviner can't cast them, I'd just pick the few good ones.
At level 1 fighters might seem better than mages, but at higher levels spellcasters become far superior.
I didn't take the toughness feat in my game at all, there are better feats.
Diviner and sorceress benefit more from (greater) spell focusses, the rest should get rapid shot, the fighter should also master greatsword (or polearms) at level 4.
Don't take improved initiative. It doesn't work. Extra rage for your barbarian isn't useful either.
In BG warriors dualclassed to spellcasters at the right moment are superior to pure spellcasters, but multiclassing spellcasters really does cripple them in IWD2.
Your newly created cleric is far weaker then the first version.
IMHO it's not worth spending many skill points and a feat to improve the effect of a few bonus spells a little (you can only cast one domain spell per level per day ).
The main task for your cleric is surviving and healing, the dwarf bonusses would help a lot.
But even if you want to get the feat 3 int is enough for a human. You get the same amount of skill points per level as with 10 int, you just have to spend 14 instead of 10 points in spellcraft which can easily be done parallel to keeping concentration as high as possible.
I would make dex higher than 13 because you can find 1 potion which trades 1 dex for 2 wis during the game and you loose the rapid shot feat if your dex decreases from 13 to 12.
Unlike in 2e games pure rogues are not bad in IWD2, you get 1-6 extra sneak attack damage for each two levels and extra thief unique feats every 3 levels starting at level 10. You loose a lot if you multiclass.
I'd increase strength for even more fun with sneak attacks, dex isn't very important. Int is more important for thieving skills and the maximum dex modifier for leather armor is reached far too soon, especially with the cat's grace spell.
Envenom weapon is a nice feat if your alchemy skill is high enough.
About your sorceress:
I would take a point from int to strength, because of the bull's strength spell 9 str is better than 8 while it doesn't matter it you have 3 or 4 int.
You have to decide how you want to spend the second skill point you get per level.
Roleplayers would take "mercantile background" and diplomacy skills to improve the party diplomat.
Powergamers would take greater spell focusses and increase spellcraft for the elemental feats.
Having the diviner cast "eagle's splendor" spell at the sorceress helps greatly both for diplomacy and spell power. 22+ cha should allow many positive encounter reactions even without having to spend points in diplomacy skills.
You don't have to pick useless conjuration spells just because your diviner can't cast them, I'd just pick the few good ones.
At level 1 fighters might seem better than mages, but at higher levels spellcasters become far superior.
I didn't take the toughness feat in my game at all, there are better feats.
Diviner and sorceress benefit more from (greater) spell focusses, the rest should get rapid shot, the fighter should also master greatsword (or polearms) at level 4.
Don't take improved initiative. It doesn't work. Extra rage for your barbarian isn't useful either.
In BG warriors dualclassed to spellcasters at the right moment are superior to pure spellcasters, but multiclassing spellcasters really does cripple them in IWD2.
My team's already Power-Gamer as it is...
Snake Blood is a brilliant Feat... <.<
Alright, which Feats would you suggest?
Human Fighter - 3
Dwarfen Barbarian - 1
Human/Shield Dwarfen Cleric - 2/1(?)
Strongheart Halfling/Human Rogue - 2
Moonelf Wizard - 2
Human Sorcerer - 2
(Using the below stats)
This is getting annoying... *sigh* the forth time I've had to revise this Party from the Start...
Snake Blood is a brilliant Feat... <.<
Alright, which Feats would you suggest?
Human Fighter - 3
Dwarfen Barbarian - 1
Human/Shield Dwarfen Cleric - 2/1(?)
Strongheart Halfling/Human Rogue - 2
Moonelf Wizard - 2
Human Sorcerer - 2
(Using the below stats)
This is getting annoying... *sigh* the forth time I've had to revise this Party from the Start...
Extra Rage is only useful before level 4 (when you might want to rage more than once between resting). Like the druid's Extra Wild Shape, it should only be taken if you cannot think of any better feats to select.
Snake Blood is not entirely useless. The Reflex save is nice, although you are better off picking Lightning Reflexes. The bonus poison saves only come into use near the end of the game, where enemies have particularly nasty weapons (particularly Isair). It is not a feat to be used by non-melee characters, and should only really be taken by fighters (who have plenty of feats to spare). Besides, I like it for the role-playing aspect.
As first level characters, though, I would personally pick:
Human Fighter: Luck of Heroes, Weapon Focus: Polearm, Dash
Dwarf Barbarian: Heroic Inspiration
Dwarf Cleric: Combat Casting (allows you to spend points in Spellcraft)
Halfling rogue: Weapon Focus (Bow or Sling)
Diviner: Weapon Focus (Bow or Crossbow - useful until you level up for more/better spells)
Sorceress: Bullheaded, Spell Focus: Evocation
Of course, if one of the characters is supposed to be the high AC decoy, then Dodge would be picked.
Snake Blood is not entirely useless. The Reflex save is nice, although you are better off picking Lightning Reflexes. The bonus poison saves only come into use near the end of the game, where enemies have particularly nasty weapons (particularly Isair). It is not a feat to be used by non-melee characters, and should only really be taken by fighters (who have plenty of feats to spare). Besides, I like it for the role-playing aspect.
As first level characters, though, I would personally pick:
Human Fighter: Luck of Heroes, Weapon Focus: Polearm, Dash
Dwarf Barbarian: Heroic Inspiration
Dwarf Cleric: Combat Casting (allows you to spend points in Spellcraft)
Halfling rogue: Weapon Focus (Bow or Sling)
Diviner: Weapon Focus (Bow or Crossbow - useful until you level up for more/better spells)
Sorceress: Bullheaded, Spell Focus: Evocation
Of course, if one of the characters is supposed to be the high AC decoy, then Dodge would be picked.
Somehow, I just can't see a Dwarf Barbarian demeaning himself to using a missile weapon...
On the fighters I'd rather put Power Attack than rapid shot (because then they get to use their Strength bonuses), and the same on the Dwarf (since I remember something about a Dwarf Barbarian with Great Cleave tanking many a Druid and Ranger in Chapter II).
Final (and I mean final. I'm not redoing this again, it takes too much time and I'm lazy) list;
Dael, 1st Level Fighter, Human Male
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Luck Of Heros, Dash and Improved Greatsword Feats.
Borin, 1st Level Barbarian, Dwarf Male
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma
Heroic Inspiration.
Silune, 1st Level Cleric of Lathander, Human Female
13 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Combat Casting, Improved Mace
Kailie, 1st Level Rogue, Strongheart Halfling Female
10 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 14 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Rapid Shot, Improved Bow (Really good rapid shot...).
Selan, 1st level Diviner, Elf Female
10 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 15 Constition, 18 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Improved Crossbow, Spell Focus: Evocation
Viena, 1st Level Sorceress, Human Female
10 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 15 Constitution, 5 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 18 Charisma
Bullheaded, Courteous Magocracy.
The Bullheaded and Magocracy are because I've put her Skill Points into Bluff as well as Concentration and Spellcraft... It means, effectively, she has +2 to all those Negotiation Checks.
The Spell Focus thing I don't understand... explain it to me please? Preferably in idiot terms... (IE; It gives a +B Bonus to S Skill...).
On the fighters I'd rather put Power Attack than rapid shot (because then they get to use their Strength bonuses), and the same on the Dwarf (since I remember something about a Dwarf Barbarian with Great Cleave tanking many a Druid and Ranger in Chapter II).
Final (and I mean final. I'm not redoing this again, it takes too much time and I'm lazy) list;
Dael, 1st Level Fighter, Human Male
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Luck Of Heros, Dash and Improved Greatsword Feats.
Borin, 1st Level Barbarian, Dwarf Male
18 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 20 Constitution, 3 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 1 Charisma
Heroic Inspiration.
Silune, 1st Level Cleric of Lathander, Human Female
13 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 18 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Combat Casting, Improved Mace
Kailie, 1st Level Rogue, Strongheart Halfling Female
10 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 14 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Rapid Shot, Improved Bow (Really good rapid shot...).
Selan, 1st level Diviner, Elf Female
10 Strength, 20 Dexterity, 15 Constition, 18 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 3 Charisma
Improved Crossbow, Spell Focus: Evocation
Viena, 1st Level Sorceress, Human Female
10 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 15 Constitution, 5 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 18 Charisma
Bullheaded, Courteous Magocracy.
The Bullheaded and Magocracy are because I've put her Skill Points into Bluff as well as Concentration and Spellcraft... It means, effectively, she has +2 to all those Negotiation Checks.
The Spell Focus thing I don't understand... explain it to me please? Preferably in idiot terms... (IE; It gives a +B Bonus to S Skill...).
- Raven_Song
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 am
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Spell Focus adds +2 to the Difficulty Class (DC) for all saving throws against spells from that school of magic. Greater Spell Focus grants plus 4.
Since your sorceress is going to be your main offensive spell slinger (or should be) she needs spell focus over Courteous Magocracy.
Wizards aren't as great as offensive spell slingers and do much better specialising in crowd control and support magics.
Since your sorceress is going to be your main offensive spell slinger (or should be) she needs spell focus over Courteous Magocracy.
Wizards aren't as great as offensive spell slingers and do much better specialising in crowd control and support magics.
So that would be Bullheaded and Spell Focus: Evocation.
So Spell Focus makes Saving Rolls against School E harder? Cool!
I've taken Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb for the Sorceress.
The Diviner has Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Sleep and Shield (the first three in memory). I intend to memorize a second sleep instead of Chromatic Orb/Magic Missile, or maybe both (I already have 4 Magic Missiles/Chromatic Orbs from the Sorceress).
So Spell Focus makes Saving Rolls against School E harder? Cool!
I've taken Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb for the Sorceress.
The Diviner has Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Sleep and Shield (the first three in memory). I intend to memorize a second sleep instead of Chromatic Orb/Magic Missile, or maybe both (I already have 4 Magic Missiles/Chromatic Orbs from the Sorceress).