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I've played BG1 several times and for some reason I always use the same party, except for my selfmade char. I always have Dynaheir as my spellcaster (first Xzar, then Xan and Dynaheir when I get her) because she comes with Minsc in some way.
The problem is; I don't even like the girl. She doesn't focus on the right school of magic for my taste. Ok, magic missile is my favorite spell, but I miss Melf's acid arrow and summon monsters. And flame arrow!

So, question is: Who's the better? Which spellcaster is the right one for me?

The best spellcaster is Edwin's Amulet.

I agree with CFM here. Edwin with his extra spells is the best Arcane spell caster. Personaly I think Dynahier is the worst and always have her attack a large mob of Xzart by herself if I plan on using Minsc. Xzar has one major downfall and that is no mirror image witch is a great defense for a low level mage. Xan is a very good mage if you are open to using a different style mage. No magic missles or flame arrow or fireball, lightning ect. But he is excellent at controlling the battle field and he gives you a chance to use spells that arn't usually used. Also Quayle is a multi class mage who is a good illusionist and a sub par cleric but a great sixth member of a party because of all his spells. Other than that there are the two bards.

My personal favorite is Imoen she makes a great mage if you are willing to dual class her.

Edwin is a Specialist Mage (a Conjurer) and his amulet lets him cast one extra spell per level, so he can cast more spells than any of the other Mages. He can't cast spells from the school of Divination, but that's no big loss. So most people think that the is the best Mage in the game.

Just because other Mages don't have Edwin's amulet, that doesn't make them bad characters. I wish that Edwin's amulet didn't exist since so many people say, "Everyone but Edwin sucks." I guess that means that D&D rules suck.

But anyway, not being able to cast spells from a Mage's opposition school adds an interesting challenge to the game. If you can't cast certain spells, what are the alternatives? Maybe you can have some fun if you try other things. For example, instead of Magic Missile, try Chromatic Orb. Instead of Melf's Acid Arrow, try Agannazar's Scorcher, Web, or Stinking Cloud. Instead of Flame Arrow, try Dire Charm and Skull Trap. There are lots of spells you'd never even try if all you ever did was cast your favorite spells.

There are also alternatives for monster summoning spells. The most obvious alternative is to use a Wand of Monster Summoning. Animate Dead is another alternative. You could also let your Cleric or Druid do some of your summoning, too.

If you want a Mage who can do more than just cast spells, you might consider dualling Imoen to a Conjurer or whichever Mage specialty you prefer. If you dual her when she's a 5th Level, she'll lose hardly any experience, and she will regain her thieving abilities in a short period of time. She'll be able to wield a bow or a sword and take care of some if not most of your thieving needs, so she can do a lot more than cast spells. Maybe that would make her the best spellcaster.

VonDondu wrote:But anyway, not being able to cast spells from a Mage's opposition school adds an interesting challenge to the game. If you can't cast certain spells, what are the alternatives? Maybe you can have some fun if you try other things. For example, instead of Magic Missile, try Chromatic Orb. Instead of Melf's Acid Arrow, try Agannazar's Scorcher, Web, or Stinking Cloud. Instead of Flame Arrow, try Dire Charm and Skull Trap. There are lots of spells you'd never even try if all you ever did was cast your favorite spells.

There are also alternatives for monster summoning spells. The most obvious alternative is to use a Wand of Monster Summoning. Animate Dead is another alternative. You could also let your Cleric or Druid do some of your summoning, too.

I guess you're right. That probably works the same way as the reason that I always use the same party members. Habit. Good, old, boring habit and fear of changes.
Next time I play through BG1 I'll try to use new and exciting chars. Not Minsc, not Khalid, not Jaheira and not Dynaheir. I'm not gonna give up Imoen though.

Malicia wrote:...I'm not gonna give up Imoen though.

I previously mentioned Edwin's Amulet as the "best" spellcaster. His specialization while losing only Divination spells, and his amulet, gives him a slight edge over all the other spellcasters (including the protagonist!). But, Imoen is my "favorite" spellcaster for sure. Dualled from a thief, using bows and wands, I think she allows for the the most tactical diversity. While this may not make her the "best spellcaster", this diversity is more valuable to a party, imo.

Echo the previous sentiments. Utilizing Xan's Enchantment spells, versus Quayle's Illusion spells, versus Xzar's Necromancy spells, versus Edwin's Conjuration spells, versus Imoen's diversity, makes all the characters exciting, and adds alot of flavor to the game.

Nothing positive to say about Dynaheir, then?

Oh no, I liked Dynaheir too, I like them all. She was in fact my main wizard in my run-thru, with Minsc, Jaheira & Khalid, and Imoen (dualled). Now, I would never say boring, but in a way she felt like your basic Magic-Missile-Fireball-Hurling-Cookie-Cutter wizard.

When I used to played PnP AD&D long ago, everyone who played a wizard was always an Invoker, simply because the spell Fireball is from the Invocation school of magic. For this reason alone I wouldn't have taken Miss Invoker along, except for the fact that she comes with Minsc (& Boo), and she's the only good-aligned single-classed wizard (besides Imoen).

If I ever play thru again, I look forward to focusing on Enchantment spells with Xan, Necromancy spells with Xzar, and so on. I can't think of any situation where using "Chill Touch" is ever an advantage, but dammit Xzar WILL feel like a Necromancer. I think an interesting part of role-playing is using combat tactics that befit a particular character. In BG2 in my game, for example, Minsc ended up dual-wielding this really great war hammer & battle axe, but it was a hard decision just because I felt giant swords better suited his personality.

Malicia wrote:Nothing positive to say about Dynaheir, then?

Actually, I was thinking specifically of Dynaheir when I made my suggestions for spell alternatives. She's an Invoker, so she specializes in spells from the school of Evocation, which includes some of the best spells available. I was trying to tell you how you could use Dynaheir and be happy with her.

My favorite type of Specialist Mage is the Conjurer, simply because it doesn't hurt to lose spells from the school of Divination. Dynaheir can't cast spells from the school of Conjuration/Summoning or the school of Enchantment, so there are some spells she can't cast that I, like you, would miss, such as Flame Arrowm Charm, Emotion, and Greater Malison. But let's consider the spells that other Specialist Mages can't cast. Xan is an Enchanter, so he cannot cast spells from the school of Evocation. Ouch! I wouldn't want to play an Enchanter. Xzar is a Necromancer, so he cannot cast spells from the school of Illusion/Phantasm. That means no Mirror Image, Invisibility, or Shadow Door. Mirror Image is the best protection spell in BG1 (since there aren't any spells like Stoneskin or items like the Staff of the Magi), but I guess the tradeoff isn't so bad. But he's Xzar, and he gets on my nerves.

At least none of the characters is a Transmuter, whose opposition school is Abjuration. Can you imagine what that would be like? Who in their right mind would play a Transmuter (unless they were doing it for fun or doing it because they lost a bet or something)?

Look at it this way: Dynaheir could be a lot worse (Xan is worse), so she's really not so bad.

Ok, a lot of interesting info there, thanx.

I think it would be both fun and a good experience for me to try out a new spellcaster completely, Dynaheir or anybody, really. I never (well, almost) use ANY defensive spells. I don't know why, probably because I think it takes to long to start with casting defensive spells. I'd rather use that time to attack with my mage...well, Dynaheir.

Maybe next time I'll chose a completely different spellcaster and promise myself not to use fireball and magic missile. :laugh:

CFM wrote:Oh no, I liked Dynaheir too, I like them all. She was in fact my main wizard in my run-thru, with Minsc, Jaheira & Khalid, and Imoen (dualled). Now, I would never say boring, but in a way she felt like your basic Magic-Missile-Fireball-Hurling-Cookie-Cutter wizard...

If I ever play thru again, I look forward to focusing on Enchantment spells with Xan, Necromancy spells with Xzar, and so on... I think an interesting part of role-playing is using combat tactics that befit a particular character...

I agree with most of what you said, but I feel like you contradicted yourself. When I play Dynaheir, she only casts spells from the school of Evocation, which suits her perfectly. Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Web, Fireball, Cone of Cold, Cloudkill... Those spells are very good, so everyone likes to use them, which means that they are playing their Mages the way they should be playing Dynaheir. Think about it--players create Conjurers so they can cast spells from the school of Evocation without losing spells from the schools of Conjuration and Enchantment. It's not her fault that her own specialty makes her a "cookie cutter wizard".

I guess Xan could go around Charming and Confusing everybody. Maybe he should have been a Bard. If you want to play him in a more conventional manner, he does have a few attack spells (Melf's Acid Arrow and Flame Arrow), and he can use wands instead of casting spells like Fireball. What do you think his playing style should be?

Xan is great to control the battle field . Web, sleep, charm, greese, stinking cloud, skull trap, stuff like that. He is a facilitator especially for a missle weapon heavy group. He holds off the enemy long enough for the other characters to mow them down. He won't get tons of kills but will get lots of assists. I find tha Xan and Imoen make a great arcane casting combo at least if you pick the right school for imy (conjerer).

I can never keep Xan alive and I never can get the sleep spell to work. I cast it on one of those 0-level punks in Candlekeep and nothing happened. I cast it on one of the other punks in CK and...nothing happened. ...so...................................I stopped using it.

Jordoo wrote:Xan is great to control the battle field . Web, sleep, charm, greese, stinking cloud, skull trap, stuff like that...

I hate to be so nitpicky about other people's posts (really I do) but I don't think Xan can cast Stinking Cloud and Web, which are in the school of Evocation.

Pellinore wrote:I can never keep Xan alive and I never can get the sleep spell to work. I cast it on one of those 0-level punks in Candlekeep and nothing happened. I cast it on one of the other punks in CK and...nothing happened. ...so...................................I stopped using it.

Sleep only works on hostile creatures. It doesn't work on friendly creatures (those with a blue circle) or your own party (those with a green circle). You must have tried to cast it on "those punks" before they turned hostile, and that's why it didn't work.

For what it's worth, I just killed Shank in one hit with a 1st Level Enchanter armed with a quarterstaff (I put his proficiency point in Missile Weapons but all he had was a quarterstaff because I just created him). I cast Sleep on him when he turned hostile and started attacking, and the spell worked like a "charm".

When you create a spellcaster as your "created char", do you use that char as party leader? Or do you use someone else, who's more of a tank?

My character is *never* the party leader because if they die then the game is over.

When talking with inn keepers and such whoever has the highest charisma is the leader.

Best spellcaster

I usually have my created spellcaster as party leader as the high charisma helps even in battle. When in shops that is even more the case. However my favourte spellcaster is my gnomish illusionist/thief. With the shadow armour, wands and backstab, he is ideal for playing solo.

wise grimwald wrote:my favourte spellcaster is my gnomish illusionist/thief. With the shadow armour, wands and backstab, he is ideal for playing solo.

Since he's wearing armor, does that mean you don't cast spells in combat? Which spells do you like to use?

Elven chain allows casting.

if a multiclass mage wears other armour - they can still use wands/scrolls/items. sometimes that is enough - I have used Aerie that way.

VonDondu wrote:I agree with most of what you said, but I feel like you contradicted yourself. When I play Dynaheir, she only casts spells from the school of Evocation, which suits her perfectly. Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Web, Fireball, Cone of Cold, Cloudkill... Those spells are very good, so everyone likes to use them, which means that they are playing their Mages the way they should be playing Dynaheir. Think about it--players create Conjurers so they can cast spells from the school of Evocation without losing spells from the schools of Conjuration and Enchantment. It's not her fault that makes her a "cookie cutter wizard".

Yeah, I really did contradict myself there. The fact that Dynaheir felt like the same Invokers I was accustomed to from my PnP AD&D days is a testament to how well AD&D was implemented in BG. I just need to check my PnP emotional baggage at the door, so to speak.

VonDondu wrote:I guess Xan could go around Charming and Confusing everybody. Maybe he should have been a Bard. And he does have a few attack spells (Melf's Acid Arrow and Flame Arrow), and he can use wands instead of casting spells like Fireball. What do you think his playing style should be?

I liked Jordoo's comment about "controlling the battlefield", with his 16 Required-For-Enchanters Charisma. I would have him employ Enchantment/Charm spells of course, as well as spells from the neighboring schools of Conjuration/Summoning & Illusion/Phantasm. Maybe:

- Charming enemies into allies, using (Dire) Charm & Domination.
- Enchanting enemies, using Sleep, Hold, Emotion, Confusion, Chaos, & Feeblemind.
- Summoning allies, using Monster Summoning & Spider Spawn.
- Conjuring a ranged attack, using Acid & Flame Arrows.
- Wade carefully into battle with that cool sword Moonblade, with the support of Conjured & Illusionistic defenses like (Ghost) Armor, Blur, Mirror Image & Wraithform.
- Escape vain beatdowns by "Illuding" enemies with (Improved) Invisibility & Shadow Door.

Throw in a Greater Malison or Blindness for the tough guys. Whoa! ...almost makes you want to solo Xan. (Almost.)