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I found an article in Actiontrip discussing about the types of combat systems in an RPG and explains the positives and negatives of each of the combat systems mentioned in the article ([url="http://www.actiontrip.com/features/combatsystemsinrpggames.phtml"]link[/url]). It was quite interesting to know of a few other types of combat system aside from strictly turn-based or real-time combat systems.

What are your views on this article?

DesR85 wrote:I found an article in Actiontrip discussing about the types of combat systems in an RPG and explains the positives and negatives of each of the combat systems mentioned in the article ([url="http://www.actiontrip.com/features/combatsystemsinrpggames.phtml"]link[/url]). It was quite interesting to know of a few other types of combat system aside from strictly turn-based or real-time combat systems.

What are your views on this article?

My first reaction as I was reading the article was 'this guy hasn't got a clue what an RPG is!'

He definitely got confused, such as the when he refered to the combat system in the BG sereis being semi-turn based, there's nothing 'semi' about it, it's pure turn based!. There are RPG's that have a sort of real time system, but with th option for the player to pause the game whilst they issue their instructions.

Pure real time combat systems have no place in an RPG in my opinion, because that transfers the success/failure decider from the character to the player. It becomes the speed of thought and reflexes of the player, not the abilities of the character that matter.

galraen wrote:Pure real time combat systems have no place in an RPG in my opinion, because that transfers the success/failure decider from the character to the player. It becomes the speed of thought and reflexes of the player, not the abilities of the character that matter.

I guess one could look at it like that. I think that a total pure real time combat systems wouldnt be the greatest but i don't really like turn based combat system either.

My first reaction as I was reading the article was 'this guy hasn't got a clue what an RPG is!'

He definitely got confused, such as the when he refered to the combat system in the BG sereis being semi-turn based, there's nothing 'semi' about it, it's pure turn based!. There are RPG's that have a sort of real time system, but with th option for the player to pause the game whilst they issue their instructions.

Actually, the BG combat system (Bioware Infinity engine) is termed "real-time-with-pause" (RTwP); it is based on the turn-based system.
The difference is that in the classic turn-based mode characters perform one action at the time, one after another (in turn); in RTwP you can pause and issue commands to all members of the party, and they will act practically simultaneously after you un-pause.

galraen wrote: Pure real time combat systems have no place in an RPG in my opinion, because that transfers the success/failure decider from the character to the player. It becomes the speed of thought and reflexes of the player, not the abilities of the character that matter.

Reflexes are ignored in pure turn-based mode, that much is true. But they are important in BG and NWN if you recall "reflex saving throws" dependent upon DEX.
Pure real time mode does not do well in a party-based RPG (Dungeon Lords). However, in a single-person RPG the real time combat is preferable. Examples: Ultima, ES, Gothic, Bard's Tale, Fable (if you can really call it RPG), Heretic Kingdoms (same comment), Siege of Avalon... you name it.
So-called 'action RPG' (e.g. Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Sacred, FATE, Titan Quest) are definitely real time. I would not call them RPG though...

Bioware's infinity engine, as used in the BG series is turn based, but keeps rolling through the end of each turn, unless you select 'pause at the end of each turn' in the options, default is off.

By reflexes, I meant the players reflexes, not the characters, such as picking locks in Oblivion (without using auto), which mean that if you have good mouse/pad control, your characters lock picking skill is almost irrelevant. Not a brilliant example but the only one that came to mind whilst writing.

galraen wrote:Bioware's infinity engine, as used in the BG series is turn based, but keeps rolling through the end of each turn, unless you select 'pause at the end of each turn' in the options, default is off.
<snip>

BG is not pure turn based, because as LD explained multiple characters perform their actions within the same turn. Had it been turn based, it would have been like for instance Fallout where each player takes a turn.
You can have your mages cast spells simultaneously as your fighters hits in Baldurs Gate.
It uses the turn and rounds as a measure of time for each character in combat and spell-casting/duration, however they all act individual within their own time frame, and thus can act simultaneous. It was only because Baldurs Gate had an extensive automatic pause system it appeared more turn based, unlike for instance NwN and NwN2.

Fallout is true turn based. One character or NPC can only move and act it its own alloted slot of turns, and thus the characters takes turn acting. That is turn based.



I do however agree that real-time does not make good RPG combat system, especially with party/group based combat because as you said, it removes focus from the character onto the player, thus diminishing the focus on the character which is one of the important things of roleplaying games. And such twitch situations belongs more in FPS games and similar action orientated games.