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I left Yoshimo back home and did Spellhold etc - when I returned to my hang out in the city and when I walked in the room - Yoshimo fell over and died - apparently of a heart-attack!

now, as I spared him his need to betray me - why should that happen?

As far as I can tell: game designer's decision. One less yahoo that needs banters written in late chapters & ToB.

Btw, label those spoilers, dude. Yoshi's a big one!

Very much a spoiler. I'm changing the thread title, too. Please keep this in mind, in the future.

Yoshimo is supposed to die....
Basically, my read of it anyway, is that if you booted him out of the party, he hasn't fulfilled the terms of his geas satisfactorily, and thus he has betrayed Irenicus, hence his death.



What's interesting, I was recently scouring Google for information on Yoshimo, and in some forums people had commented that there are some post-Spellhold banters actually written for him that they found in his files.

If that is actually true, there must have been some change of plan midway through game development.

Actually, if anyone does look into verifying this, I'd be very appreciative if you could send me any dialogue that is written out for him. I'd do so myself, except I'm hopeless with that sort of thing

dragon wench wrote:Yoshimo is supposed to die....
Basically, my read of it anyway, is that if you booted him out of the party, he hasn't fulfilled the terms of his geas satisfactorily, and thus he has betrayed Irenicus, hence his death.

Your explanation is way better than mine. How could I've forgotten about the geas? With his backstory it wouldn't have made sense to allow him to join afterwards.

dragon wench wrote:What's interesting, I was recently scouring Google for information on Yoshimo, and in some forums people had commented that there are some post-Spellhold banters actually written for him that they found in his files.
Actually, if anyone does look into verifying this, I'd be very appreciative if you could send me any dialogue that is written out for him. I'd do so myself, except I'm hopeless with that sort of thing

Post it here too please! That'd be a fun read, for sure.

Supposedly there's a way to keep him alive but he probably won't have too much to say...

I've heard that if you have him trigger the trap beneath the Copper Coronet that will turn him to stone then you can come back and revive him and he'll be fine...

Still... I don't really see the point...

Onkel Bob wrote:Supposedly there's a way to keep him alive but he probably won't have too much to say...

I've heard that if you have him trigger the trap beneath the Copper Coronet that will turn him to stone then you can come back and revive him and he'll be fine...

Still... I don't really see the point...

Yes, but that was fixed in the baldurdash patch.

If you have not used that patch (and I don't see why anyone wouldn't, since it fixes so many glitches). you can immediately hit "pause" when you enter the Copper Coronet, and while still paused, initiate dialogue with Yoshimo to rejoin your party. Directly after he finishes talking with you, he will die. However, you can then ressurect him.

Personally, I would not want to do this.... Yoshimo's death is one of those emotional gut punches in the game, and, IMO, it doesn't feel right to mess with that.

I've also read that if people use the above exploit Yoshimo is hard coded to die the moment you enter Suldanesselar.....

Sorry folks

for some reason it slipped my mind to add 'spoiler' - I normally remember in posts where I think it is one - somehow my enthusiasm for finding the answer took over and I forgot.

I like Yoshimo as an NPC and develop him to a high level - I don't fancy being back-stabbed by that character, so I stripped him of his good equipment and weapons, so that if he followed me to spellhold, he wouldn't be quite as deadly. I find it a real disappointment that he dies, no matter what. A geas that was worded properly could kill him off in failing in his mission - "if [PC] gets out of spellhold alive, you die".

bit of a loss old Yoshi getting terminated. I would have liked him back for Watchers Keep, which I am now back doing. I did the first couple of levels pre Spellhold and have come back for the rest. I am dreading the next few fights to get past the seals - those enemies are always really difficult to beat - what they will be like adjusted for this party's levels I shudder to think.

Imoen's trap detection has failed to the detriment of the party and isn't going to get any better. I haven't used Jan yet - we are doing WK before going back to sort out Bodhi (again) - the PC is level 19 mage, Sir Anomen level 25 and Jaheira levels 15/14 - if that is a guide. I have just boosted all my stats on the Mad Machine - just as well as I seem to remember I'll lose some points again later on.

interestingly, Anomen got 2 holy symbols - so I passed one on to Aerie - I don't know when it happened - is it possible that it was a wild magic effect? some wierd stuff happened in the maze.

Celacena wrote:interestingly, Anomen got 2 holy symbols - so I passed one on to Aerie - I don't know when it happened - is it possible that it was a wild magic effect? some wierd stuff happened in the maze.

This was recently talked about a little:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldu ... oly+Symbol

That thread implies that removing & readding an NPC (that's eligible for a Holy Symbol) seems to net one, too.

I wonder if you got drained below 25, and then restored, if it would happen too.

dragon wench wrote:Yes, but that was fixed in the baldurdash patch.

If you have not used that patch (and I don't see why anyone wouldn't, since it fixes so many glitches). you can immediately hit "pause" when you enter the Copper Coronet, and while still paused, initiate dialogue with Yoshimo to rejoin your party. Directly after he finishes talking with you, he will die. However, you can then ressurect him.

Personally, I would not want to do this.... Yoshimo's death is one of those emotional gut punches in the game, and, IMO, it doesn't feel right to mess with that.

I've also read that if people use the above exploit Yoshimo is hard coded to die the moment you enter Suldanesselar.....

Having read this thread I decided to play through the game (as an Evil PC) and keep Yoshi alive.

Spoiler

I removed him from the party in the Vulgar Monkey and picked him up again after completing the Asylum(he died of course but as he was in the party I was able to raise him).

Things I noticed:

Throughout the Underdark he continually lagged way behind the rest of the party, which meant putting up with the dreadful droning voice every time I changed location.

No banter whatsoever in the Underdark, although it returned after exiting.

He doesn't drop dead upon entering Suldanesselar, but doesn't transfer to ToB, when the game makes the final save he's removed and all his items distributed amongst the party. This also happens if you try importing your own last save into ToB.

He's the best thief in the game by a long shot, also a 'decent' character, never whines like most NPCs do, just gets on with the job at hand and never gives you any grief. It's a real shame Black Isle messed up the Yoshi story, I suspect that you were originally able to use his heart to resurrect him. Unfortunately like many other things it got cut, and wasn't restored in Unfinished Business as far as I know.

Ah well, the party is now in the Pocket Plane, was thinking of turning Sarevok into a DC Fighter/Thief, but doubt I'll bother. ToB was such a disappointment aftr SoA.

Yoshimo does have a banter, when he is in the party when you wake up in hell after defeating Irenicus at the tree of life.

Lark

Lark wrote:Yoshimo does have a banter, when he is in the party when you wake up in hell after defeating Irenicus at the tree of life.

Lark

Okay... this is getting more and more intriguing.. What was the banter, can you remember any of the details?

galraen wrote:He's the best thief in the game by a long shot, also a 'decent' character, never whines like most NPCs do, just gets on with the job at hand and never gives you any grief. It's a real shame Black Isle messed up the Yoshi story, I suspect that you were originally able to use his heart to resurrect him. Unfortunately like many other things it got cut, and wasn't restored in Unfinished Business as far as I know.

Yes, I entirely agree, and I really like his character. In my opinion there is a lot of untapped depth there, if that makes sense?
I wonder what Black Isle intended......

I'll check later. I hope I have still a save game with Yoshi in the party, just before the battle at the tree of life. And I hope you understand German .

Lark

@ Lark,
cheers!

Well.... I spoke German when I was small, and I can still roughly make it out. And if I really run into trouble, dictionary.com has a surprisingly good translator. I wouldn't want to count on it for any kind of a formal document, but it will serve fine for something like this.

I can speak Deutsch well enough to understand anything BG 2 can throw at me so no problem post it I'd be interested how you managed to get him to hell. Probably Galraen is right and he was cut. Shame the game deserves 1 pure class thief

Lark, I know which dialogue you are talking about, and it's only one line. Anyone who has a resource viewer such as Infinity Explorer can look it up. It's under the dialogue tree for PLAYER1.

It goes something like this. You land the killing blow on Irenicus. He dies, then you die, and you take everyone in your party with you. "This, surely, is Hell."

When Yoshimo gets a chance to comment, he says, "What is this? I died... I am sure of it. Did you bring us with you, [MAIN CHARACTER]? Is your business with Irenicus still not finished? Still?"

The dialogue files are actually quite a mess. There's a lot of duplication and a lot of stuff that was obviously cut before the game was finished. But you never see it when you play the game, which is why the designers left it instead of going to the trouble of getting rid of all of it.

The Hell dialogues were probably written before Yoshimo's storyline was finalized. Since Yoshimo can't be in your party, the dialogue won't trigger. Apparently, instead of going back to eliminate the unseen dialogue, the designers spent the limited amount of time they had on more important things.

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:I can speak Deutsch well enough to understand anything BG 2 can throw at me so no problem post it I'd be interested how you managed to get him to hell. Probably Galraen is right and he was cut. Shame the game deserves 1 pure class thief

Well I got him to 'Hell', he didn't say anything, and I couldn't get him out.

Edit: Well he did say 'A trap most devious for the careless of foot' quite a few times.

CFM wrote:This was recently talked about a little:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldu ... oly+Symbol

That thread implies that removing & readding an NPC (that's eligible for a Holy Symbol) seems to net one, too.

I wonder if you got drained below 25, and then restored, if it would happen too.

come to think of it - I did recently have a fight where the enemy spellcaster used maze/imprisonment - AND I also recall having to stone-to-flesh somebody back into the party (better than accidentally exploding them!) AND I remember Anomen getting level drained because he was using a shield and used Crom Freyr instead of the MoD - usually he dual wields to have NPP all the time. so it could have been any of those causes - my mage can cast anything so I may try it out - it would be handy for Anomen to have his 2 and Aerie have one - she uses a wizard ring to boost her spells memorised, so she'll probably make do with 1 holy symbol - that is unless I give her ring to Imoen, I suppose. it is a bit of a pain having super-duper extra spell rings as that takes away the attraction of other rings - except Gaxx - but even then, I wonder about using them.

Clerical Medical

on the subject of clerics - how does a PC raise them without a rod? or without expending a charge?
well simulcrum saves a charge if you have a rod - I raised all other 5 party members using the simulcrum's rod - but another solution is the HLA spell fallen planetar - that summoned creature has an amazing arsenal of spells - including raise dead and heal. so even if I don't have an enemy to fight, I sometimes use the planetar to save memorised spells.

Mass heal

for an extra mass heal - I suggest a druid uses summon woodland creature - the dryad has that memorised - it enables the party to have a few mass heals kicking around, which is really useful if (a) a fight is too chaotic to get in a heal somebody directly (b) a character is invisible (c) you'll not get to two characters in time to save them both
when a cleric gets to Sir Anomen's level in my party - presently level 32 (I think) - his mass heal cures an awful lot of wounds.

Thank you, VonDondu, that was exactly the line I was talking about.

Lark