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The list of mods I would like to install is getting out of hand. I'm running into brick walls trying to figure out the installation order due to contradictions from a variety of sources. Here is what I have selected:

Shadows of Amn (Full Install)
Throne of Bhaal
Official TOB Patch Version 26498
Baldurdash Fixpack v1.12
Baldurdash English Language Text Update v1.2

Manual additions to /OVERRIDE directory:
* modified NPC items
- Harper Pin (usable by Neutral Good Cleric/Ranger)
- Firecam Full Plate Armor (usable by Saerileth)
- Yoshimo's Katana (usable by Kensai/Thief)
- De'Arnise Signet Ring (droppable)
* custom items
* 'Safe' XP Cap Remover for Throne of Bhaal by Kevin Dorner
* Inoshiro's Better-Looking Robes of Vecna
* Sorcerer's Place Cloak of Mirroring
* TOB Juggernaut Golem Fix

G3 Oversight v9
* Alignment Correction
* Cleric Kits (not compatible with Multiple Strongholds)

Ascension v1.4.21
* Ascension
* Tougher Gromnir
* Tougher Illasera

Pocket Plane Group Banter Packs v6

SimDing0 Tweak Pack Version 16
* Enhanced Goodberries
* Corrected Summoned Demon Behaviour
* Corrected Demon Animations
* Reintroduce Dimension Door
* Tweaked Weapon Enchantments
* Ghrey's Holy Symbol Fix (removed from Version 17 because it is included in the G3 BG2 Fixpack)
* Sensible Lore Table

Solaufein NPC Mod v102
install before Kelsey

Kelsey NPC Mod
* SOA v2.1
* TOB v2.2
install before Keto
install before Unfinished Business

Unfinished Business v15
* The Kidnapping of Boo, by Cliffette
* Restored Crooked Crane
* Restored Encounters
* Corrected "Xzar's Creations"
* Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0 (is it compatible with SimDing0 Quest Pack?)
* Gorf the Squisher Fix, by Gebhard Blucher
* Item Restorations
* NPC Portrait Restorations
* Corrected BAMs and Scripts
* Corrected Character Names
* Restored Minor Dialogs
* Throne of Bhaal Minor Restorations
* Sarevok's Remorse for Yoshimo and Tamoko, by Sovran and Winterine

Refinements v2.01
install before NPC mods or after?

Keto NPC Mod v2 (SOA Only)

Valen NPC Mod v45

Tsujatha NPC Mod v10

Fade NPC Mod v3 (SOA Only)

Saerileth NPC Mod v13

Yasraena NPC Mod v8

Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 NPC Mod v7

G3 Crossmod Banter Pack v4
includes Alassa, Fade, Goo, Hubelpot, Kido, Kindrek, Kivan, Saerileth, Solaufein, Tsujatha, and Yasraena

SimDing0 Quest Pack v2.3
should be installed after Kelsey and Keto
* General AI Improvements & Expanded Vocabulary
- includes Smarter Illusionary Clones
* All Creature & Area Improvements
- includes Kensai Ryu's Restored Drow Innate Abilities
- automatically installs Detectable Spells Pack v1.9
- not compatible with Xyx's Smarter Beholders or Multi-colored Beholders
* Miscellaneous Enhancements
- install after all Iron Modder entries
- includes Jaysyn's Displacer Beasts
* Extended Fallen Paladins Material
* Rahul Kanakia's Potion Quest
* Improved Oasis II (Dialogue Enhancement with or without Combat Enhancement)
* Saving Sanik In Brynnlaw
* Burglary Of Galoomp The Bookkeeper, by Andyr
* New Fate For The Dryads' Acorns (Evil Alternatives)
* Sending The Solamnic Knights Home
* Reward Negotiation (Vithal's spoils)
* Infernal Thievery (Bridge District Murders)

G3 BG2 Tweak Pack v3
* Viconia Skin Color Change
* Weapon Animation Tweaks
* Restore SoA Load Screen Logo
* Disable Portrait Icons Added by Equipped Items
* Alter HP Triggers for NPC Wounded Dialogues
* Improved Kick-out Dialogues
* Stores Sell Larger Stacks of Items
* Shapeshifter Rebalancing
* Bonus CD Merchants
* Female Edwina
* Imoen ToB Dialogue Fix
* Romance Bug Fixes
* Expanded Dual-Class Options (dual class Wild Mage)
* Wear Multiple Protection Items
* Cast Spells from Scrolls (and Other Items) at Character Level
* True Grand Mastery
* Change Magically Created Weapons to Zero Weight
* Make +x/+y Weapons Consistent
* Description Updates for Make +x/+y Weapons Consistent Component
* Easy Spell Learning
* Bottomless Bags of Holding
* Remove Fatigue from Restoration Spells
* Shut Up "You Must Gather Your Party ..."
* Unlimited Ammo Stacks
* Unlimited Jewelry and Gem Stacks
* Unlimited Potion Stacks
* Unlimited Scroll Stacks
* Change Jaheira to Neutral Good Alignment

The Bigg Tweaks v2.01
* Nature's Beauty Tweaks
* Imprisonment Fix
* Petrification Fix
* Drop Weapons in Panic Removal
* Unlimited Limited Wish & Wish


I don't expect to use all of the new NPCs in any single run, but I would like to install all of them so that I can restart whenever I want without having to change my installation. Hopefully this is everything I'll want for a long time to come (unless Fade and Keto are ever released with TOB content). However, I am open to any suggestions for high quality quest mods. (I personally recommend the G3 Anniversary Mod but I have already played it several times.)

In another message thread, jcompton (one of the masterminds behind Kelsey and Keto) recommended that Kelsey should be installed before Unfinished Business and Refinements (and Keto) but Keto should be installed after them. The fact that Keto was a newer mod had something to do with it.

Aside from those recommendations, does installation order make any difference for the rest of the NPC mods? The Pocket Plane Group Banter Pack should apparently be installed early, but I assume the G3 Crossmod Banter Back should be installed after the respective NPC mods.

The reason I think I should install Baldurdash instead of the newer G3 BG2 Fixpack is because I tried to install it last week and it appeared to be incompatible with Fade. I tried to install Fade several times but kept getting an error message and it automatically uninstalled itself. (Something involving a particular map--I think it was Trademeet.)

In the past, I used the G3 Tweak Pack (now replaced by the G3 BG2 Tweak Pack, which also replaces Ease of Use). I also used the SimDing0 Tweak Pack, which until version 17 included some features that are now included in the SimDing0 Quest Pack (Smarter Illusionary Clones, Kensai Ryu's Restored Drow Innate Abilities, and Jaysyn's Displacer Beasts) or the G3 BG2 Fixpack (Ghrey's Holy Symbol Fix). The Quest Pack used to be known for having a lot of bugs, but now the people at Pocket Plane Group expect me to install it to get the components I want. (The Quest Pack also doesn't seem to have SimDing0's name on it anymore--is this just coincidence?) Does this mean that the Quest Pack is now "ready for prime time"? It seems to offer a nice alternative to Xyx's Improved Beholders (I used to use his Multi-colored Beholders). The SimDing0 Quest Pack should be installed after Kelsey and Keto because it contains dialogues for them. But the question remains, when should I install the tweak packs? I also want to make sure that SimDing0's Restored Hell Minions component in the Tweak Pack is compatible with his Boss Improvements in the Quest Pack.

I'm not certain that I want to install Refinements at all. Is there any compelling reason to do so? As for the installation order, one of the authors, The Bigg, recommended installing his Tweaks after all of the quest mods that might be affected by his Imprisonment tweaks, which makes me wonder if there are any similar issues with other tweak mods. The Bigg also authored a Quest Pack that requires the HLA component of Refinements (the only component that looks interesting to me). How would that affect the installation of the quest mods and NPC mods if jcompton thinks that Keto should be installed after Refinements?

Thanks for your help.

You've likely installed the mods already and are probably halfway the Asylum in the meantime, but I'm going to toss my two cents around anyway, if you don't mind Von.

Let's begin with, well, the beginning.

The Baldurdash Fixpack. Frankly, I prefer this one and the G3Tweaks (v18) above the G3 BG2 Fixpack and G3 BG2 Tweak Pack, since, with the long list of mods I install, I dreadfully fear the possibility of incompatibilities. At their site (The Gibberlings Three Forum) there's still the occasional post mentioning the appearance of a bug, and I would really, really hate uninstalling and reinstalling the whole game and moderations because of a small glitch. It's a process that's taking me around an hour by now, so I rather skip the irritating undertaking. Moreover, in this particular instance, I'd rather go with the tools I know work well enough than with a new tool that might mess up my installation. Better safe than sorry in this case, I guess.


Moving in to the non-WeidU mods you have installed. Truthfully, I can't really comment on those (except that you need to install them in the exact same place as where you've listed them) because I've abandoned installing them a long time ago. I prefer to keep everything WeidU for safety’s sake. A bit unadventurous, I know, but I tend to uninstall and reinstall everything after only the smallest of bugs. It has made me... careful, to say the least.


As for the WeidU mods: Let’s start with Unfinished Business. ‘The Kidnapping of Boo, by Cliffette’ component works, but not quite the way it should. You get teleported to the Druid Grove and are faced with unkillable trolls. Running your ass off usually does the trick, but I still feel it leaves you with a slightly unpleasant aftertaste. Another component, ‘Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest’ , made my game crash when I entered the Copper Coronet. Suffice to say I skipped that too. As for your question concerning the ‘Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0’ component: I believe it’s compatible with Quest Pack, yes.

Secondly, Refinements. Personally, I would install it as one of the last mods. In my opinion, it’s relatively new, and they might coincidentally release a new update before you finished your game(s). If they don’t: I consider NPC mods to be safer than mods that change rules, kits and spells. It’s more of a personal thing, perhaps.

Thirdly, the NPC mods. This is something you probably need to determine for yourself. If you expect an update: install it as one of the latest mods. If you don’t, then follow the age-old credo: Oldest first, newest last. Seeing as you have Valen in there, a mod I consider to be one of the oldest NPC mods available, I advice you to install that near Sola and Kelsey (preferably in that order: Sola, Kelsey, Valen). After all these NPC mods, there logically follows the G3 Crossmod Banter Pack.

Fourthly, Quest Pack. I haven’t gotten to trying every component in there, or at least, I didn’t finish it all, but I think the author can be quite proud of the improvements compared to the first version. The first release was indeed filled with bugs, loose ends and whatnot, but the current version is pretty good to tell the truth. No bugs encountered from this side of the planet anyway.

Fifthly, The Bigg Quest Pack. I’ve never heard of this pack until you mentioned it. I’ve checked its respective forum, however, and there turned out to be a few bugs popping up every now and then (although those instances might fall under the ‘completely coincidental’ label). Regardless, I would not install it even though the components there are, admittedly, fairly interesting.


I don't have much else to comment on, Von. If I were to install the moderations you’ve listed here, it would come out something like this:
Ascension
G3Tweaks
DOTweak (it's version 18 meanwhile, by the way)
Oversight
Banter Pack
Solaufein
Kelsey (SoA+ToB)
Valen
Unfinished Business
All the other NPC mods
Crossmod Banter Pack
Quest Pack
Refinements

A point to consider in this list is the place of the Tweak Packs. I know that in this link the author advices one to install the fixpacks as one of the latest mods, but frankly, I’ve never had any problem with the place they’re currently located at (then again, I’ve never used the new BG2 Fixpack and G3 BG2 Tweak Pack).

If you truly intend to install G3 BG2 Tweak Pack and The Bigg Quest Pack, then yes, it might be wise to install them at the bottom of your list. The reason is, simply enough, that these mods are the least bug free of probably the rest of your list.

Hope this helped a tiny bit. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, would you be willing to share your experience with the Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 NPC Mod, how the installation worked out, if you’re encountering problems (and if so: where?), and what you personally think of the G3 BG2 Tweak Pack (should you decide on installing it)?

Good luck!

(Spelling errors may be corrected.)

Thanks for your input, Sytze.

Sytze wrote:You've likely installed the mods already and are probably halfway the Asylum in the meantime...

Actually, I did install everything except for Refinements in the order shown to do my own testing. After doing a few quests inside the city limits of Athkatla (mostly cleaning out the Graveyard and Renal's Quest), I just started Chapter Three so I could meet Fade as soon as possible. I haven't made up my mind which NPCs I want in my party for this particular run, but I'm playing a male Wild Mage and I'll probably take Fade (edited to be a Swashbuckler), Yasraena (the sound files seem to be slightly improved since the last time I tried the mod), Viconia (because two Drow should be twice as much fun), Saerileth (edited to be an Inquisitor), and Imoen or Edwin.

I also started a female Fighter/Mage so I could try some of the other new NPCs: Solaufein, Tsujatha, Kivan (and Deheriana) and maybe one of the original NPCs such as Aerie. I will also take a look at Kelsey.

I'm not sure what to do with Valen since I'm not used to playing the kind of party she in which she seems to belong, but I'd like to try her someday. And I like Keto, so I like keeping her around as an option.

Sytze wrote:The Baldurdash Fixpack. Frankly, I prefer this one and the G3Tweaks (v18) above the G3 BG2 Fixpack and G3 BG2 Tweak Pack, since, with the long list of mods I install, I dreadfully fear the possibility of incompatibilities. At their site (The Gibberlings Three Forum) there's still the occasional post mentioning the appearance of a bug...

For my purposes, the G3 BG2 Tweak Pack is a merging of Weimer's Ease of Use and the old G3 Tweak Pack, with the following new components:

* Disable Portrait Icons Added by Equipped Items
* Stores Sell Larger Stacks of Items
* Expanded Dual-Class Options (dual class Wild Mage)
* Cast Spells from Scrolls (and Other Items) at Character Level
* Remove Fatigue from Restoration Spells

I don't think any of those components will cause any problems. Spell and item alterations aren't a big deal in my experience.

On the other hand, I wasn't able to install the Fade NPC Mod after I installed the G3 BG2 Fixpack during a previous installation attempt, so like you, I am wary of bugs and incompatibilities when it comes to that particular mod.

Sytze wrote:Moving in to the non-WeidU mods you have installed. Truthfully, I can't really comment on those (except that you need to install them in the exact same place as where you've listed them) because I've abandoned installing them a long time ago. I prefer to keep everything WeidU for safety’s sake...

The Baldurdash Fixpack is a non-Weidu mod, but I'm not sure what you meant by "non-WeidU mods" unless you're referring to the .ITM, .CRE, etc. files that I copied directly to the /OVERRIDE directory. None of them have any interaction with the Weidu mod components I have chosen, although some of them could be replaced with items and tweaks from other mods. For example, the G3 BG2 Tweak Pack has an alternative experience cap remover and an alternative Cloak of Mirroring, but I don't need to install them if I add my own selections to the /OVERRIDE directory.

The rest of the mods on my list are WEIDU mods.

Sytze wrote:As for the WeidU mods: Let’s start with Unfinished Business. ‘The Kidnapping of Boo, by Cliffette’ component works, but not quite the way it should. You get teleported to the Druid Grove and are faced with unkillable trolls...

I once met some unkillable trolls in a previous game, so perhaps Unfinished Business was the culprit.

Sytze wrote:Another component, ‘Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest’ , made my game crash when I entered the Copper Coronet. Suffice to say I skipped that too...

I didn't choose to install the Extended Illithium Quest this time. I tried it a couple of years ago and ran into some sort of problem with it. (I think I couldn't find the contact I was supposed to meet at the old Temple of Aumanator.) I haven't tried it again.

Sytze wrote:As for your question concerning the ‘Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0’ component: I believe it’s compatible with Quest Pack, yes.

I don't see why they wouldn't be compatible since both were created by the same person, but I had to ask.

Sytze wrote:Secondly, Refinements...

At this point, my biggest question is whether I should install it. Do you like any of the components?

Sytze wrote:Fourthly, Quest Pack. I haven’t gotten to trying every component in there, or at least, I didn’t finish it all, but I think the author can be quite proud of the improvements compared to the first version. The first release was indeed filled with bugs, loose ends and whatnot, but the current version is pretty good to tell the truth. No bugs encountered from this side of the planet anyway.

That's good to know.

Sytze wrote:DOTweak (it's version 18 meanwhile, by the way)

Yes, but I don't want to use the latest version. I chose to keep Version 16 because it allows me to use several components that were removed from Version 17 and Version 18. For example, Version 18 does not have Ghrey's Holy Symbol Fix, which is only available if I install the new G3 BG2 Fixpack or Version 16 of the SimDing0 Tweak Pack. I'm not using the G3 BG2 Fixpack, so I have to use Version 16. Version 18 also no longer contains Smarter Illusionary Clones, Kensai Ryu's Restored Drow Innate Abilities, and Jaysyn's Displacer Beasts, which are now available in the SimDing0 Quest Pack. If I didn't want to install the SimDing0 Quest Pack (which used to be too buggy to use), I wouldn't be able to use the components I wanted unless I installed Version 16 of the Tweak Pack. Version 17 and 18 added a couple of new components, but I'm not missing out on anything because I don't want to use them (BG1-Style Summoning Spells and bug fixes for some components I don't use such as Slower Walking Speeds and Summons/NPCs Set Off Traps).

I can understand why Sim doesn't want to have the same components in two different mods. But I feel like I'm being forced to make a choice: install the Quest Pack or lose some of the components I want to use.

Sytze wrote:If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, would you be willing to share your experience with the Kivan and Deheriana Companions for BG2 NPC Mod, how the installation worked out, if you’re encountering problems (and if so: where?), and what you personally think of the G3 BG2 Tweak Pack (should you decide on installing it)?

I'll post my results, but I don't know how long it will be before I finish TOB with this new installation.

VonDondu wrote: I also started a female Fighter/Mage so I could try some of the other new NPCs...

Two games simultaneously? You must really love the game, still.
I just started a new game with me as an Archer/Thief, Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Kelsey, and whoever wants to fill the last slot, or better put; whichever quest I’m doing at that moment. Until I reach ToB, that is. I’m bringing the family back together. I can’t for the love of god leave Jaheira and Imoen behind, and somehow I regret not having Minsc with me halfway through the game. Typical, I know. The list of mods and their respective components that I've installed is also getting out of hand; I’m already counting on seventeen, and it will only grow with time, I fear.

VonDondu wrote: For my purposes, the G3 BG2 Tweak Pack is a merging of Weimer's Ease of Use and the old G3 Tweak Pack, with the following new components.

That explains it. I’ve installed the larger portion of both G3Tweaks and Ease of Use, so in my case it’s, for the moment, pretty much a safer bet to install the older versions.

VonDondu wrote: The Baldurdash Fixpack is a non-Weidu mod, but I'm not sure what you meant by "non-WeidU mods" unless you're referring to the .ITM, .CRE, etc. files that I copied directly to the /OVERRIDE directory.

I’m sorry, I should have explained myself. When I’m talking about Baldur’s Gate and its modifications, I mean three different kind of modifications. The first are the patches (official and balderdash), the second are the non-WeidU mods (which you call the ‘manual additions to your /OVERRIDE directory’) and the third are the WeidU mods themselves.

I've abandoned messing with anything in my override folder some time ago and instead went with just the WeidU mods. Both because I considered it safer and because it made the installation process less complicated.

VonDondu wrote: At this point, my biggest question is whether I should install it. Do you like any of the components?.

I like almost anything that adds variety to my game and Refinements offers exactly that. Loads of new HLA to choose from. Some are powerful, others have a very limited use, but overall most of them are simply very interesting. Either way, it offers a change of spice and that’s what I’m looking for after the uncountable reruns I've put myself through.
Another nifty component is the dualclass Swash-Mage kit for Imoen. It saves me the agony of editing her myself through the use of SK (although I’m unsure if you would see this as a benefit).
You have to decide for yourself if the other components are of any use to you; the former components are the reason why I install this mod. If you don’t like to add extra high level abilities, then you might as well leave it untouched. Since its release, however, and because it’s quite bug free, it has become a regular in my modlist.

VonDondu wrote: I'll post my results, but I don't know how long it will be before I finish TOB with this new installation.

If you could keep me up-to-date with your progress concerning the Kivan mod throughout your game, I would be grateful. If you consider it a fine mod, I might install it sooner or later as well. I’ve always had a soft spot for Archers.

Sytze wrote:If you could keep me up-to-date with your progress concerning the Kivan mod throughout your game, I would be grateful. If you consider it a fine mod, I might install it sooner or later as well. I’ve always had a soft spot for Archers.

I haven't started the female Fighter/Mage yet, but I met Kivan already with my other character. The writers assume that Kivan was traveling with you when you were abducted by Irenicus's lackeys and he came looking for you, just like Minsc and Dynaheir. The dialogue appears to be well-written, and there are many dialogue options to choose from, ranging from, "Get lost, you annoying person," to, "You're back? Okay, whatever, join the party," to, "My dear friend and kinsman!" followed by Elven poetry. Maybe there just isn't any smooth way to drop a new NPC into an old game, but it was a bit of a shock at first to see something I wasn't used to. But the next few dialogues seemed to fit right in.

I'm not sure what else to say, except it's Kivan, and he's an Archer, which seems to be a kit that people either love or hate.

I recommend that you don't install any banter accelerators. It's nice to have dialogues, but I don't want all of the NPCs talking to me at once, and I don't want them talking to me every five minutes when more time is supposed to have passed when they address me again.

VonDondu wrote:I didn't choose to install the Extended Illithium Quest this time. I tried it a couple of years ago and ran into some sort of problem with it. (I think I couldn't find the contact I was supposed to meet at the old Temple of Aumanator.) I haven't tried it again.

I had trouble finding him too. It turned out that it was just because he's a bit hard to find. He was actually there when I tried it.