Tactics mods, opinions and advice [spoilers]
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:39 pm
The following is a record of my current opinions regarding some of the mods of Tactics. My opinion sometimes changes and certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion. These opinions are based on what I’ve read on the forums, as well as what I have experienced personally. I will probably add to this list as I go. I am currently playing with some of the tactics mods and all of the ascension mods installed.
These opinions will certainly be affected by my own prejudices. I personally try to avoid cheese in a very strict sense of the word, especially in regards to high level casters. I enjoy the simplicity of point and click (fighter types), rather than extensive buffing and multitudes of spell casting (even though I realize the advantages of doing so). I also often end up playing the game late at night when I can no longer think well enough to do my 2 jobs. I am currently using a 4 man group: (1) morituri (a custom kit, which becomes the most twinky non-spell casting fighter [with possible exception of fighter-thief variants] at ToB levels but not so good at the beginning of SoA); (2) sorcerer; (3) ranger-cleric; and (4) inquisitor.
Please express your opinions and give your favorite tactics for dealing with the different mods called Tactics.
IMPROVED ILYCH
This mod is inappropriate. Irenicus alone should be able to deal with the capture characters. He also has the help of his sister. An elite cadre is unnecessary. This prison should not be a maximum security prison with security that is not affected even during an assault from the thieves’ guild. The tactics required to beat this mod are tedious and cheesy by necessity. It’s not for me.
IMPROVED MAE’VAR
This mod is inappropriate. The loot you get from this one is not so great in terms of twinky magical items. It could easily be one of the first quests you attempt, and it is very difficult for a small party of low levels without equipment. What if you want Edwin in your group? To obtain him, you basically fulfill this quest and then receive orders to kill Mae’Var. It really doesn’t make since for you to ignore those orders. I tried it with a party of Morituri (fighter) L8, Sorcerer L9, and Ranger-Cleric L8 with only the equipment from Irenicus’ dungeon and could not beat Mae’var without CTRL-R and CTRL-Y. A huge problem for me was I was casting Chaos repeatedly, and it never affected anyone! That by itself could have made a difference. I think this problem arose when I changed Tashia’s spell list. Perhaps, when Shadow Keeper lists identical spells, you should choose the last listing. Heck, even some fireballs could have probably helped. You may be able to kill Mae’var at a relatively low level, but you can’t be half asleep when trying, and you need to be properly equipped. At the very least, you need True Seeing; use a scroll or spell – Keldorn can do it. This is a thieves’ guild; you can expect potions of invisibility, mislead, and other such tactics. You need your guys protected against backstab: stoneskin and mirror image, ironskin, barbarian, morituri, surrounded by summoned monsters, etc. You need a charged wand of animal summoning. Keep monsters on the field. This is particularly important for small parties.
IMPROVED GUARDED COMPOUND IN TEMPLE DISTRICT
This mod is probably appropriate as you get Celestial Fury here – probably the best weapon in SoA. So, it really shouldn’t be easy. However, don’t expect to get this sword at level 10. I was using the party above with an Inquisitor level 10 for a party of 4 and had to resort to CTRL-R to live. I also used CTRL-Y to kill their summoned monsters. A wand of Cloudkill may have helped some. More people in the party would have definitely made things easier. I think my party of 4 could have killed them when my party reaches level 16 and know it could once my sorcerer gets Time Stop. Any way, this mod pits you against a high level party with good scripting. They use Time Stop, multiple summons, many buffs, and immediately the fighters assault you. Yes, and Koshi still wields Celestial Fury with impressive effectiveness. I do kind of like this mod as it will provide a nice challenge, without frustration, to a party of the appropriate level. On the other, you can get the Flail of Ages, another fantastic weapon and the best in ToB, without nearly this much trouble. And even without the tactics mod, this can be a challenging battle for a small in number, low level party. The standard fight is not so tough for a party of 6 with 3-4 casters in the group using the proper tactics, but even in this case someone can die if you have bad luck, with the most likely killer being Koshi or the thief.
ACID KENSAI
This mod is generally inappropriate. This beast is soooooo cheesy. I’ve been told that he can be killed by having the group invisible and allowing someone to kill him using the Crossbow of Searing (from the Adventurer’s Market) with normal arrows. You could also kill him by putting an antimagic field on him (Protection from Magic scroll) and using normal weapons. If you don’t realize the proper tactics (and how could you know?), this guy can kick a party’s butt. This is a mod that you can basically do without. If you get Celestial Fury too early (low party XP level, as can be done with the unmodded guarded compound) and don’t have the gear to combat this guy, he will kick your party’s butt. This dude showed up when my PC was level 9. In the unmodded game, I can get Celestial Fury that early. I countered this guy's cheese with my own cheese. I put him under the antimagic field and chopped him up with non-magical weapons. He didn't even seem to attack me after that. I guess the script called for him to use magic. Well, that wasn't very fulfilling. If you get Celestial Fury late and then beat this cheesy guy without using cheese yourself, it could be more fun. At any rate, this is not a story line encounter, but a definite “side-quest.” The only reason I play this mod is if I want the guy’s katana, which is also soooo cheesy. A morituri, who can use only magical weapons (and can be proficient only in swords), magical boots, and healing potions, would definitely benefit from this sword. Still, I will only use it to regenerate at night and when facing the toughest encounters of the game - and may decide not to use it at all. Other than that, this katana is really too unbalanced.
TOUGHEST RANDOM DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS
I love this mod and wouldn’t consider playing without it! The game adjusts difficulty (through HP I think) of your opposition based on the number of characters in your party. This stops that and makes sure you always fight the toughest opposition. This opposition is not cheesy tough or anything ridiculous. You expect to find opposition in dungeons and this opposition is typically quest-related.
RANDOM CITY/WILDERNESS ENCOUNTERS
I don’t like these mods. One mod introduces city encounters, some times tough encounters depending on your level and characters. It really doesn’t add anything to the story line, and makes me wonder how this major city can be so lawless and deadly. The common folk should always hide behind the city guard! The country encounters are at least a little more understandable. You could encounter a dragon or wyvern out there. Still, I prefer my dangers to be quest-related. In fact, I don’t like my quests and the story to be constantly interrupted by hack-n-slash encounters. I might endorse these mods still, simply for the tactical challenge, if the scaling was better. For challenging but not frustrating play, your opposition should relate to your level and party composition; rewards should also be fitting to the level of the opposition. Although it’s plausible, being caught unawares by a cheesy wyvern can be irritating. Constant fighting in the streets can become a drag, and even be very deadly when you are first starting out – poor, poorly equipped, and relatively inexperienced. That’s the key for my play style. If you give me a little time to get equipped and some desirable spells, I feel like I can steam roll most opposition. Before that happens if I face really tough opposition, I may have to resort to tactics which may be cheesy or not heroic – I hate that.
IMPROVED COPPER CORONET
There is little increase in difficulty with this mod. That's good. This is definitely one of the first quests players generally go through, and I disapprove of cheese fests like Improve Ilych for initial quests. So, install this one and be sure to go through this quest first (or maybe after the Circus in the Promenade). The loot and XP from this quest will help with other improved battles.
These opinions will certainly be affected by my own prejudices. I personally try to avoid cheese in a very strict sense of the word, especially in regards to high level casters. I enjoy the simplicity of point and click (fighter types), rather than extensive buffing and multitudes of spell casting (even though I realize the advantages of doing so). I also often end up playing the game late at night when I can no longer think well enough to do my 2 jobs. I am currently using a 4 man group: (1) morituri (a custom kit, which becomes the most twinky non-spell casting fighter [with possible exception of fighter-thief variants] at ToB levels but not so good at the beginning of SoA); (2) sorcerer; (3) ranger-cleric; and (4) inquisitor.
Please express your opinions and give your favorite tactics for dealing with the different mods called Tactics.
IMPROVED ILYCH
This mod is inappropriate. Irenicus alone should be able to deal with the capture characters. He also has the help of his sister. An elite cadre is unnecessary. This prison should not be a maximum security prison with security that is not affected even during an assault from the thieves’ guild. The tactics required to beat this mod are tedious and cheesy by necessity. It’s not for me.
IMPROVED MAE’VAR
This mod is inappropriate. The loot you get from this one is not so great in terms of twinky magical items. It could easily be one of the first quests you attempt, and it is very difficult for a small party of low levels without equipment. What if you want Edwin in your group? To obtain him, you basically fulfill this quest and then receive orders to kill Mae’Var. It really doesn’t make since for you to ignore those orders. I tried it with a party of Morituri (fighter) L8, Sorcerer L9, and Ranger-Cleric L8 with only the equipment from Irenicus’ dungeon and could not beat Mae’var without CTRL-R and CTRL-Y. A huge problem for me was I was casting Chaos repeatedly, and it never affected anyone! That by itself could have made a difference. I think this problem arose when I changed Tashia’s spell list. Perhaps, when Shadow Keeper lists identical spells, you should choose the last listing. Heck, even some fireballs could have probably helped. You may be able to kill Mae’var at a relatively low level, but you can’t be half asleep when trying, and you need to be properly equipped. At the very least, you need True Seeing; use a scroll or spell – Keldorn can do it. This is a thieves’ guild; you can expect potions of invisibility, mislead, and other such tactics. You need your guys protected against backstab: stoneskin and mirror image, ironskin, barbarian, morituri, surrounded by summoned monsters, etc. You need a charged wand of animal summoning. Keep monsters on the field. This is particularly important for small parties.
IMPROVED GUARDED COMPOUND IN TEMPLE DISTRICT
This mod is probably appropriate as you get Celestial Fury here – probably the best weapon in SoA. So, it really shouldn’t be easy. However, don’t expect to get this sword at level 10. I was using the party above with an Inquisitor level 10 for a party of 4 and had to resort to CTRL-R to live. I also used CTRL-Y to kill their summoned monsters. A wand of Cloudkill may have helped some. More people in the party would have definitely made things easier. I think my party of 4 could have killed them when my party reaches level 16 and know it could once my sorcerer gets Time Stop. Any way, this mod pits you against a high level party with good scripting. They use Time Stop, multiple summons, many buffs, and immediately the fighters assault you. Yes, and Koshi still wields Celestial Fury with impressive effectiveness. I do kind of like this mod as it will provide a nice challenge, without frustration, to a party of the appropriate level. On the other, you can get the Flail of Ages, another fantastic weapon and the best in ToB, without nearly this much trouble. And even without the tactics mod, this can be a challenging battle for a small in number, low level party. The standard fight is not so tough for a party of 6 with 3-4 casters in the group using the proper tactics, but even in this case someone can die if you have bad luck, with the most likely killer being Koshi or the thief.
ACID KENSAI
This mod is generally inappropriate. This beast is soooooo cheesy. I’ve been told that he can be killed by having the group invisible and allowing someone to kill him using the Crossbow of Searing (from the Adventurer’s Market) with normal arrows. You could also kill him by putting an antimagic field on him (Protection from Magic scroll) and using normal weapons. If you don’t realize the proper tactics (and how could you know?), this guy can kick a party’s butt. This is a mod that you can basically do without. If you get Celestial Fury too early (low party XP level, as can be done with the unmodded guarded compound) and don’t have the gear to combat this guy, he will kick your party’s butt. This dude showed up when my PC was level 9. In the unmodded game, I can get Celestial Fury that early. I countered this guy's cheese with my own cheese. I put him under the antimagic field and chopped him up with non-magical weapons. He didn't even seem to attack me after that. I guess the script called for him to use magic. Well, that wasn't very fulfilling. If you get Celestial Fury late and then beat this cheesy guy without using cheese yourself, it could be more fun. At any rate, this is not a story line encounter, but a definite “side-quest.” The only reason I play this mod is if I want the guy’s katana, which is also soooo cheesy. A morituri, who can use only magical weapons (and can be proficient only in swords), magical boots, and healing potions, would definitely benefit from this sword. Still, I will only use it to regenerate at night and when facing the toughest encounters of the game - and may decide not to use it at all. Other than that, this katana is really too unbalanced.
TOUGHEST RANDOM DUNGEON ENCOUNTERS
I love this mod and wouldn’t consider playing without it! The game adjusts difficulty (through HP I think) of your opposition based on the number of characters in your party. This stops that and makes sure you always fight the toughest opposition. This opposition is not cheesy tough or anything ridiculous. You expect to find opposition in dungeons and this opposition is typically quest-related.
RANDOM CITY/WILDERNESS ENCOUNTERS
I don’t like these mods. One mod introduces city encounters, some times tough encounters depending on your level and characters. It really doesn’t add anything to the story line, and makes me wonder how this major city can be so lawless and deadly. The common folk should always hide behind the city guard! The country encounters are at least a little more understandable. You could encounter a dragon or wyvern out there. Still, I prefer my dangers to be quest-related. In fact, I don’t like my quests and the story to be constantly interrupted by hack-n-slash encounters. I might endorse these mods still, simply for the tactical challenge, if the scaling was better. For challenging but not frustrating play, your opposition should relate to your level and party composition; rewards should also be fitting to the level of the opposition. Although it’s plausible, being caught unawares by a cheesy wyvern can be irritating. Constant fighting in the streets can become a drag, and even be very deadly when you are first starting out – poor, poorly equipped, and relatively inexperienced. That’s the key for my play style. If you give me a little time to get equipped and some desirable spells, I feel like I can steam roll most opposition. Before that happens if I face really tough opposition, I may have to resort to tactics which may be cheesy or not heroic – I hate that.
IMPROVED COPPER CORONET
There is little increase in difficulty with this mod. That's good. This is definitely one of the first quests players generally go through, and I disapprove of cheese fests like Improve Ilych for initial quests. So, install this one and be sure to go through this quest first (or maybe after the Circus in the Promenade). The loot and XP from this quest will help with other improved battles.