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I purchased an X-Box when the system was well into its life cycle. So I picked up KOTOR and Fable within a few weeks of acquiring the system. KOTOR was great and Fable was a blast, but far too short. After being disappointed by the short length of Fable I set out on a quest to find the longest RPG available for the X-Box. Of course this search led me to The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, which was not only very long and deep, but also highly rated by both reviewers and RPG fans.

I called around to several stores while at work and found a store that had a copy of Morrowind in stock. I asked them to hold the copy for me took an early lunch and happily wasted my lunch hour securing a copy of what I knew would be one of the greatest games I ever played. After lunch I used a few reams of company paper printing off the Morrowind walkthrough here at Game Banshee. Then I spent a few hours over the company hole-punch organizing the Walkthrough into a freshly pilfered company 3-ring binder. Then I skated out of work early and rushed home to try out the game. I hind sight I think my company was the only entity screwed over more by my Morrowind experience than me.

Right away I could tell I was dealing with a deep game. I could also tell I was dealing with an RPG from earlier in the X-Box life cycle because the graphics and physics were a little sub-par compared to what I was used to. I had planned to follow my quest using the third-person, over-the-shoulder perspective, but I was so horrified by the look and movement of my character that I ended up going back to the first-person view. Still graphics aren’t everything and in an RPG they aren’t even the main thing; story is king. I knew from my research that Morrowind had a deep and involved story so I kept right on playing.

A little later in my Morrowind experience I was let down by all of the text. I’ve played RPGs for a long time and text has always been a big player, but I think KOTOR and Fable spoiled me to a more cinematic experience. I tried to get into the history and sub-plots of Morrowind, but I had trouble keeping everything straight. I had the same problem with my quests and side quests. Eventually I began writing down almost everything because I had a system of organization that was vastly easier to use than the in-game system. But better than the in-game system did not mean intuitive or easy to use by any stretch. Once again Fable and KOTOR had spoiled me. Fable placed easy to follow waypoints for each active quest so even an idiot, or in my case a distracted father, could keep up with where they were going. KOTOR had a simple list of active quests that could be consulted at any time to find out where I needed to go next. Morrowind had neither system. Still I toughed it out and played Morrowind for a total of about 10 hours because I figured the game needed time to draw me in.

After hour 10 I realized that I was not being drawn in. I didn’t care if I leveled up, I didn’t care if I completed my quest, I didn’t care about my character or any NPCs and I didn’t care what happened to the world of Morrowind. In short I wasn’t really role-playing I was simply going through the motions hoping to be drawn into this wondrous world. It never happened. After a few more half-hearted attempts I realized Morrowind was not the game for me and traded it in three weeks after I originally bought it.

Now I am the owner of a 360 having serious RPG withdrawal. I am anxiously awaiting Mass Effect, Fable 2 and KOTOR 3, but those are still a little way off. Mass Effect may come out before Memorial Day, but Fable 2 and KOTOR 3 are almost definitely 2008 games. So I’ve been looking around and what do I find? You guessed it; the highest rated RPG and the second highest rated game for the 360 is Oblivion. According to many reviewers I should like this game. It’s easier to pick up than Morrowind, has improved visuals, a more cinematic story and a better system for keeping track of active quests. Essentially every single complaint I had about Morrowind has been addressed by Oblivion.

At the same time I know that Oblivion is still a $60 game. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s the only early 2006 360 game still commanding full price. That probably means that it’s as good as everyone says it is. I mean GRAW is a great game and even it has seen a price reduction so Oblivion must totally kick ass. It also means I’ll lose that much more money if I buy Oblivion, don’t like it and trade it in. Plus my wife will ridicule me endlessly for buying the sequel to a game I didn’t like only to return it for a loss just like I did with Morrowind. I don’t need that crap either.

So help me out here. Are there any Oblivion fans here that disliked Morrowind as much as I did? Do you think Oblivion has improved in the areas of quest management and ease of play? Does the game feel more cinematic? I know that ultimately I will be the judge of what I like, but I would like some opinions from Oblivion fans. I’m all set to pull the trigger and get this game; I just need a little convincing.

Given the sheer amount of time you put into that post, and your obvious intelligence (nevermind the obsessive qualities associated with three-ring binders), I'm going to keep this thread open. That's despite the fact that we have a thread similar to it, which you could probably find easily enough by doing an advanced search on "buy" in this forum.

From your experience, I'd say you'd find the more linear waypoint approach in Oblviion better suited to your tastes than Morrwind. On the other hand, the quests are far more simplistic and involve a ridiculous amount of hand-holding (where a box will suddenly pop up telling you exactly what you think and what you must do). The graphics, too, are so sky-high in their requirements that many systems, even very good ones, run Oblivion sluggishly.

But you can find out the details of my impressions in the review posted here at GameBanshee. Everybody has their own experience on the matter.

I would say that if you don't mind the 2D engines of older games, I'd heartily recommend Baldur's Gate II and Planescape: Torment. Both titles make you greatly care about your party, and draw you in. But the choice is yours.

I don't know if I can!

For me, Morrowind was the most awesome RPG I'd ever played (of course, my previous gaming experience was fairly limited, I must admit!). I like the fact that it was so open-ended and you were left to figure so many things out on your own. I thoroughly enjoy Oblivion, particularly the high-end graphics, even if my computer has a hard time handling them! But the story line is much simpler and more linear - your quest log tells you where to go next and what to do. Personally, I love shutting down Oblivion Gates best - they are so nasty and surreal, I feel like I'm doing the world a favor by closing them. Not to mention there's pretty cool loot inside them!
From the tone of your essay, I think you might like this game better than Morrowind. There are some nice long dungeon crawls, a few really tough fights, and you can develop your character in a number of ways.
I think you might really enjoy this game, but then again, I could be wrong. After all, if someone didn't like Morrowind, I'm gonna have a hard time relating to their tastes!

In all honesty.

:::I was in the same set of circumstances as you. . . :::I had heard of Morrowind relatively earlier than you had and went out purchasing it for my computer. I was very disappointed with the graphics,the terrible amount of notes the game automatically recorded, and the overall approach. I felt like I was sluggishly going along with no intent of ever reaching any type of 'great climactic feeling of achievment'. All I felt was disappointment. Anyhow, fast forward to now:I told myself I would give it another go, and tried Oblivion. I will have to go out on a limb and say you will benefit from Oblivion based upon your inentions of involving yourself with an RPG, the game is very simplistic, but then again you can really play it anyway you would like, but with every game, there are downfalls. When you play Oblivion, it feels more like a dungeon crawler than an immersive RPG with rich and developed plot lines, so you may find yourself completing questlines, but then quickly moving along to another, however, the streamlined and extremely useful NEW AND IMPROVED quest markers and map alone make up for the tom foolery of looking for specific locations. Also, you may want to consider the fact that although the graphics have really been beefed up and look spectacular there are some little buggy things about the game at times, but it really just adds humor more than detract from the game itself, nothing to worry over. I don't want to extend this out anymore though, the mods might come after me? I dont know how forums work, I just thought I would throw my opinion out there for you.

Might someone clean this up? (Thanks)
Anyway, I've played both Morrowind and Oblivion. I must say I liked Morrowind a lot more, when I played it some years ago. When I've played it in more resent years i uninstalled it quite quickly since the bugs and bad travelling system. But Morrowind had a really good world and main quest, many interesting quests. Oblivion lacked the interesting main quest, but had a nice world, and had a far easier system and less bugged system by overall.

Having played both on Xbox, I have to throw my vote for Morrowind, actually went out and bought it for PC, what with all the mods available, some of them are quite grand. Oblivion, just seemed not to have it for me, although its what I would call excellent "eye candy"

I played both for the pc. I really didn't like morrowind that much (blasphemous to some I know). Though, I had it for the pc I never tried out the mods for it. Which is why I believe it is in such high regard by a lot of players.

I have to say I'm enjoying Oblivion 10x more. But this time I have downloaded mods for it. Mainly to fix the character advancement system, AI, User interface, fix other crap Bethesda did wrong, and finally, to add more monsters and items to the game. Some to make the world look better too. Which has extended its game life greatly I think. It has almost been a year and I'm still playing it. As opposed to the 3 weeks I spent playing Morrowind.

For the record, I enjoy fps and rpg's. I go back a long time with both genre's from the very first Final Fantasy and Wolfenstien 3-D. My favorite experiences playing games have come with Baldurs gate 1&2, Doom series, Half-life2, Neverwinter Nights, Diablo2, and Oblivion. I would highly recommend Oblivion, but only for the pc with mods.

JudgeU wrote:I played both for the pc. I really didn't like morrowind that much (blasphemous to some I know). Though, I had it for the pc I never tried out the mods for it. Which is why I believe it is in such high regard by a lot of players.

I have to say I'm enjoying Oblivion 10x more. But this time I have downloaded mods for it. Mainly to fix the character advancement system, AI, User interface, fix other crap Bethesda did wrong, and finally, to add more monsters and items to the game. Some to make the world look better too. Which has extended its game life greatly I think. It has almost been a year and I'm still playing it. As opposed to the 3 weeks I spent playing Morrowind.

For the record, I enjoy fps and rpg's. I go back a long time with both genre's from the very first Final Fantasy and Wolfenstien 3-D. My favorite experiences playing games have come with Baldurs gate 1&2, Doom series, Half-life2, Neverwinter Nights, Diablo2, and Oblivion. I would highly recommend Oblivion, but only for the pc with mods.

@ JudgeU
Thanks for the info....been debating on buying for PC, have it for Xbox.
So if the mods add that much, I'll probably go out and buy. Thanks

BlueSky wrote:@ JudgeU
Thanks for the info....been debating on buying for PC, have it for Xbox.
So if the mods add that much, I'll probably go out and buy. Thanks

No problem. If you decide to get it I can point you to some great mods.

JudgeU wrote:No problem. If you decide to get it I can point you to some great mods.

Would appreciate it.
When I started Morrowind, DW pm'ed me a list of good mods and their sites and I got a few from the Morrowind forum, but nothing I had read yet had convinced me to actually buy the PC version of Oblivion.
thanks again.

Well, I don't think it would be to hard to convince you that you're better off with the pc version than the xbox with just the mention of 1 mod!

Since the thread title is "convince me" hopefully this post isn't out-of-bounds and won't get deleted.

The mod is Martigen's Monster Mod v1.71

===== WHAT IT DOES =====

* Over 90 new and diverse creatures and NPCs added to the realm of Tamriel
* All original and new creatures/NPCs spawn unique with a different size
* All original and new creatures/NPCs spawn unqiue with modified stats
* All original and new creatures/NPCs spawn unique with their own combat AI
* All original and new creatures/NPCs spawn unique with their own loot
* All original and new creatures/NPCs interact with over 25 new factions

The variety in MMM is almost limitless. Each creature and NPC, both original and new, spawns with (in defined ranges) a randomised size; randomised adjustments to stats (such as strength, agility, health, fatigue, magic, willpower, and intelligence) all particular to their class; as well as range-randomised confidence; agression; and even combat fighting styles. No more clones of creatures or NPCs where each one is identical, with MMM every encounter is different because every creature -- even those of the same race -- is uniquely different.

More than this, the stat adjustments are broken into two sections -- health, magic, strength, fatigue and confidence are affected by the same value that determines size -- so smaller creatures are generally weaker too and, in turn, less confident. Stats like agility, speed, and agression are randomised based on and applied against the core stats. Speed is an important one here -- now you will see herds of deer running away at different speeds, or hoards of goblins charging towards you and fighting with you at different speeds. In conjuction with size, stat, and aggression changes as well as the fleeing and behviour code these changes adds a ton of life to the creatures of Tamriel.

Additionally, the advanced fleeing code works not just with the player, but other creatures and NPCs as well. You'll see a wolf starting a fight with a Bandit, and then running for its life. Or goblins swarming a Troll, and then pelting when the tide turns against them. In fact, very few mods allow for anything more than NPCs than can flee, but MMM adds carefully adapted code to all sorts of creatures and NPC types, particular to their class or nature (so for eg, Dremora never flee and nor do Bosses).

Finally, MMM is the first mod to tie a creature's confidence and aggression into faction interactions -- usually, setting faction ratings creates static behaviour (if a creature has a big enough negative reaction to another faction, it will always attack), with MMM creatures spawn with an adjustment to their aggression and confidence within a defined range, and when combined with the faction ratings, creates a vast diversity of behaviour. For example, a Big Cat might not always be hungry, and so might not always chase prey. Or a spawning Ogre that has a faction relationship towards wolves as enemies may be ambivalent towards a nearby wolf, while another spawned Ogre attacks it outright. Moreover, the changes scale in accordance with a creature's size and stats with bigger, more confident creatures more likely to start a fight with those in factions they just tolerate (as opposed to outright war or friendship). Additionally, more primal creatures may attack their own kind, such as Wolves or Trolls or Minotaurs. It's a low percentage, but again based around factions and aggression. If a highly aggressive Wolf spawns, it'll be highly aggressive not only to other factions but its own kind, and could well turn on them in a fight.

The most important change the faction system brings -- the player is no longer the centre of the universe. No more will you have three different creatures all attacking you at once and ignoring eachother. Now, fights will be all-in brawls between you and the fighting factions you've stumbled upon.

And on top of all this, a passionate attention to detail -- unique creatures and NPCs each designed with a purpose, style, back story, AI, loot, abilities, ingredients, faction behavior and more. Plus animals that can be afraid, aggressive, or tame and behave accordingly, bosses that are bigger, Spriggans that may cause a storm when they die, furs and meats on Barbarians, Marauders that like their drinks, petty loot on Bandits, Smugglers carrying their cargo, new regional armors on patrolling guards, corpses that stay around longer so you can loot them and much much more.

You can read about it more on here and see pictures!(and dowload it too):
FilePlanet: Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Martigen's Monster Mod v1.71

And that's just one mod! I must have at least 45 different mods. This one is only for creature stats and AI.

Please Moderators let this stay up .

Looks like some bills will have to wait..while I use the money for PC Oblivion.:laugh:

Many thanks have saved the link.
I love mods...had over 100 for the BG series, have around 50 or so for Morrowind right now.

well morrowind had a lot more to do like 10 times as much. i think that if they were to remake morrowind(graphics, fast travel, horses quest markers) and such i would play it more than oblivion. but thats just me . . .

oblivion is fun, dont get me wrong but if you look at the faction list and quest list it is like 21-5 and too many many numbers to remember(for quests). but i still love oblivion.

Just wanted to let you guys know they updated the MMM from 1.71 to 2.0 now. Even more enemies and AI now!

JudgeU, the place to put that info is in our sticky thread on Oblivion mods. That way, people who wants mods will find it, instead of this thread, which will scroll off the first page.