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The Best and Worst Starts to RPGs (Spoilers)

Ok, so recently started playing RPGs again and got to thinking how some games seem to take awhile to get into the game proper and others get you straight into it. Example KOTOR has a tutorial before dropping you on a planet where your giving abit more freedom and then after maybe a few hours gaming your finally given almost total freedom. Elder Scrolls 3 (and I assume the rest of them!) has a very brief character creation/tutorial before unleashing you on the game proper. So I was just wondering which games you guys felt started off the best and really got you into the feel of the game, and which ones you thought didn't start so well.

Here are a few of my own and what I thought

Fallout and Fallout 2: Ok so I really hate the rat cave and temple but they are both brief enough to get through within minutes then once your out you have near total freedom. So overall bad start but nice and brief.

Elder Scrolls 3: Nice and brief character creation/tutorial was is good but I did find the fact you were pretty much alone after that to do as you wished slightly disorientating and if your new to the game it can take awhile to actually get onto the central plot.

Baldur's Gate: I HATE CANDEL KEEP!!!! The thing that really bugged me about Baldur's Gate is just how long it took you to get into the city itself. I really wanted to explore BG but the plot kept stringing you along and along and it felt like a very long beginning. Once inside I felt the game had truly begun but the fact it took several hours to get to that point was a really pain, especially as I'm one of these people who restarts the game while still playing as an old character.

Baldur's Gate 2: I again hate the dungeon you start in. Its far to big when all I wanted to do was get out there and explore. Also skipping through it tends not to be an option otherwise you could miss some of the quests on the outside. Mercifully it is fairly brief and you can get into the game alot quicker than I felt you could in its predecessor.

Knights of the Old Republic: First off the tutorial level is really annoying but its so brief I can forgive the game for that. Overall I felt I was free within the game one I was on my first planet, even if your not aloud to planet hop for a few hours. I can see some people would be annoyed by the later but I thought the story was good enough that I never really notice.

Knights of the Old Republic 2: A nice skipable tutorial, however the space station is really annoying and I wish it'd been made briefer, or had been inhabited (though obviously that would have changed the story), after leaving though I did feel the game picked up even if like KOTOR it trapped you on another planet for awhile before giving you your game playing freedom I wasn't to bothered.

Neverwinter Nights: The acadamy is nice and brief as well as being skipable and you do get dropped into the main plot quickly, however I never felt settled into the game, maybe because you have so little freedom, so it never really started.

So overall most games beginings (and this goes for alot of none RPGs as well!) are really annoying and I do wish more would give you the freedom to play the game as you want to, and more quickly.

Hope I've not bored you all to death and I hope I've made some sense. Really would love to hear what ever one else thinks about this subject. Thanks for reading!

Elder scrolls 3, that intro was a bit basic, vague, and semi-cliche, but it's still a nicely done game really.

The beginning to Fable though was absolutely horrendous. I remember playing that game once and so disgusted with the intro to the game that I only played four, maybe five more total hours before I got sick of the cliche kiddy style anime plotlines.

bluechincilla wrote:Fallout and Fallout 2: Ok so I really hate the rat cave and temple but they are both brief enough to get through within minutes then once your out you have near total freedom. So overall bad start but nice and brief.

I played Fallout 2 and yes, I agree that temple is one heck of a frustrating tutorial. Compared to other games, this is the first game I've come across where you can get killed (unfairly) even in the tutorial. Never got past the tutorial as I quit in disgust.

bluechincilla wrote: Neverwinter Nights: The acadamy is nice and brief as well as being skipable and you do get dropped into the main plot quickly, however I never felt settled into the game, maybe because you have so little freedom, so it never really started.

Same here. Not only the reasons you mentioned but also the fact that the whole story itself (including the narrator and how the narration was executed) is boring and uninteresting. In addition, the controls and mechanics felt weird. These are the the main reasons why I never got past the tutorial (same as Fallout 2).

bluechincilla wrote: So overall most games beginings (and this goes for alot of none RPGs as well!) are really annoying and I do wish more would give you the freedom to play the game as you want to, and more quickly.

If you're referring to tutorials, I don't mind. In fact, to me, it's necessary if you want to get the hang on how the game mechanics and controls work. If tutorials don't exist, it will be like a soldier walking into battle without any training.

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Fallout and Fallout 2: Ok so I really hate the rat cave and temple but they are both brief enough to get through within minutes then once your out you have near total freedom. So overall bad start but nice and brief.
<snip>

Long time ago - but IIRC, then Fallout 1 was a brilliant start. You get to wander around in the vault - there were basically no "intro" into the game, you smack started right in the game.

The Temple of Trials in Fallout 2 was "boring"; but did serve its purpose of getting the player informed about how to play the game in a rather short manner. And the fact that you could complete the last challenge in various methods only indicated what the game would provide afterwards. But I hate "intros" which can't be skipped past.

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Elder Scrolls 3: Nice and brief character creation/tutorial was is good but I did find the fact you were pretty much alone after that to do as you wished slightly disorientating and if your new to the game it can take awhile to actually get onto the central plot.<snip>

Morrowinds introduction I felt was bad, well mediocre at best. Here I'm a prisoner for god know how long and then they wait until they release me to take my personal information?

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Baldur's Gate: I HATE CANDEL KEEP!!!! The thing that really bugged me about Baldur's Gate is just how long it took you to get into the city itself. I really wanted to explore BG but the plot kept stringing you along and along and it felt like a very long beginning. Once inside I felt the game had truly begun but the fact it took several hours to get to that point was a really pain, especially as I'm one of these people who restarts the game while still playing as an old character.<snip>

I had no problems with Candelkeep because it was short enough to not get annoying, and it was an important factor in learning how to play the game. And much of it was skipable if one wanted to (at the cost of some XP and gold)

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Baldur's Gate 2: I again hate the dungeon you start in. Its far to big when all I wanted to do was get out there and explore. Also skipping through it tends not to be an option otherwise you could miss some of the quests on the outside. Mercifully it is fairly brief and you can get into the game alot quicker than I felt you could in its predecessor.<snip>

I hate hate hate hate Irenicus' dungeon with a passion. To long, to dull, however I question if it indeed is a "part of the introduction" to the game and not the game itself.
Dungeon-be-gone is a lifesaver.

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Knights of the Old Republic: First off the tutorial level is really annoying but its so brief I can forgive the game for that. Overall I felt I was free within the game one I was on my first planet, even if your not aloud to planet hop for a few hours. I can see some people would be annoyed by the later but I thought the story was good enough that I never really notice.<snip>

KOTOR1 intro level annoyed me. Sure you need to learn to play the game, but already there I found annoyance in the "reposition of characters after a cut-scene" issue. But it was tolerable.

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Knights of the Old Republic 2: A nice skipable tutorial, however the space station is really annoying and I wish it'd been made briefer, or had been inhabited (though obviously that would have changed the story), after leaving though I did feel the game picked up even if like KOTOR it trapped you on another planet for awhile before giving you your game playing freedom I wasn't to bothered. <snip>

The fact you can skip the tutorial without penalty was brilliant. The "mineing station" was part of the game, so wouldn't include that into the "intro levels"/start of the game. I dislike the mining station myself, but that is mostly because I feel it is tedious with a lot of attempt to make it feel "RPG-ish". (Conversations with Kreia and Atton which seemed forced, and then the usual "lost memory" annoyance).

bluechincilla wrote:<snip>
Neverwinter Nights: The acadamy is nice and brief as well as being skipable and you do get dropped into the main plot quickly, however I never felt settled into the game, maybe because you have so little freedom, so it never really started.<snip>

Skibable once completed was as always brilliant. Lets you get right to the game. The layout and workings of the academy was fun enough first time, and did help create the "urgency" atmosphere and a "believable" back story to the game.

NwN2 - fun the first time, introduction to the game, and skibable as well. A fair with challenges was rather innovative way of doing it.

Oblivion was ..... strange. You got to play some of the game before deciding how to plan out your character which I liked (one of the only things I like in that game), however it is long, it is irrelevant to how the game plays and it wasn't possible to skip it. Had to make a save game just prior to leaving the "section" so I could avoid it for all times after that.

Siberys wrote:<snip>
The beginning to Fable though was absolutely horrendous. I remember playing that game once and so disgusted with the intro to the game that I only played four, maybe five more total hours before I got sick of the cliche kiddy style anime plotlines.

Agreed, and it did spell the tone for the entier game.
But 4-5 hours played - you were about halfway through the game.

I like this thread. Could a spoiler tag be added though?

Although the Fallout 2 intro got a bit tedious after a while, I really did appreciate the kind of impression it left on me. It's like a quiet wink at the 'old' dungeon crawlers. And as far as I can remember you never quite get to see anything like that again, so I don't really mind having to go through it. Which is of course exactly why it is in the beginning of the game, right next to Arroyo. It's the experience. The whole first hour of play felt like everything BUT Fallout. A very daring and fairly unique approach to a sequel, if you ask me.

I personally hate NWN2's opening. I'm being a bit unfair here, I mainly dislike it because I had to go through it so many times for that harvest fair cape and some extra cash at the beginning of the game. And the first few hours after that are just soo linear, they practically meld together with the intro. I mostly blame my CCCD for having to go through that too many times though.

Maybe not the best, but one of my favourite openings has to be that of System Shock 2. Nothing sets the mood for a game like SS2 better than imminent explosive decompression. Run, run, little hacker.

Hey all, some interesting replies, I should clarify what I mean be 'start' as you may have noticed I've not always applied it to the first 'level' or tutorial/prologue of the game. I meant about getting into the game and when it feels like its started properly so like BG I felt it wasn't until I was in the city itself that the game had started for me where as in actualality this was no where near the beginning of the game (maybe the last 3rd or something). Just to compare with a none RPG its like Grand Theft Auto 3 and its successors, in each you have to open up the different islands to get the full game, in this case Vice City was good because it all opened up fairly early on where as San Andreas it felt the game was almost over before you got all the islands (and still you had other things to unlock). So say KOTOR 2 took you through Peragus, then onto Telos and then finally the games opened up and truly began for me though I was happy exploring Telos. Same thing with KOTOR as it not till finishing Dantooine that again the game really opens up which is a fair way into the game.

With games like Neverwinter Nights you do get that 'here are your tasks complete them in whatever order you like' which gives you a feeling of freedom and that the game has really 'begun' almost from the off even though as I've said it didn't feel right to me. BG2 also has that open play, do what you want feeling to it once your out Irenicus dungeon and I very real feeling that the story has really begun. I don't think though its really a tutorial and I suppose its important to the plot the games starts the way it does. I actually found BG2s tutorial one of the best as it was entirely optional and didn't give that slightly faked 'this is all put on for you benefit' feel you sometimes get (the opening of KOTOR is a prime example of this awful ,method).

Well I'll shut up for now, hope I've made some sense!

Oh and thanks for the replies so far, they've been really interesting.

Siberys wrote:Elder scrolls 3, that intro was a bit basic, vague, and semi-cliche, but it's still a nicely done game really.

The beginning to Fable though was absolutely horrendous. I remember playing that game once and so disgusted with the intro to the game that I only played four, maybe five more total hours before I got sick of the cliche kiddy style anime plotlines.

I like the intro to Morrowind - it makes you feel like you are a prisoner that was just thrown off a boat onto an island and the disorientation fits with that. Plus it tells you all the important things and if you ask around for directions you can learn about the rest. I actually view the whole of Seyda Neen as the intro though.

I agree totally with Fable - the kid intro was simply awful and pointless.

mr_sir wrote:I like the intro to Morrowind - it makes you feel like you are a prisoner that was just thrown off a boat onto an island and the disorientation fits with that. Plus it tells you all the important things and if you ask around for directions you can learn about the rest. I actually view the whole of Seyda Neen as the intro though.

I agree totally with Fable - the kid intro was simply awful and pointless.

I have to throw my vote here also....first play through was, no I don't like this, but the more I played I really liked how it started you off, considering just how open ended it quickly got after the Seyda Neen beginning.

bluechincilla wrote:Hey all, some interesting replies, I should clarify what I mean be 'start' as you may have noticed I've not always applied it to the first 'level' or tutorial/prologue of the game. I meant about getting into the game and when it feels like its started properly so like BG I felt it wasn't until I was in the city itself that the game had started for me where as in actualality this was no where near the beginning of the game (maybe the last 3rd or something). Just to compare with a none RPG its like Grand Theft Auto 3 and its successors, in each you have to open up the different islands to get the full game, in this case Vice City was good because it all opened up fairly early on where as San Andreas it felt the game was almost over before you got all the islands (and still you had other things to unlock). So say KOTOR 2 took you through Peragus, then onto Telos and then finally the games opened up and truly began for me though I was happy exploring Telos. Same thing with KOTOR as it not till finishing Dantooine that again the game really opens up which is a fair way into the game.

With games like Neverwinter Nights you do get that 'here are your tasks complete them in whatever order you like' which gives you a feeling of freedom and that the game has really 'begun' almost from the off even though as I've said it didn't feel right to me. BG2 also has that open play, do what you want feeling to it once your out Irenicus dungeon and I very real feeling that the story has really begun. I don't think though its really a tutorial and I suppose its important to the plot the games starts the way it does. I actually found BG2s tutorial one of the best as it was entirely optional and didn't give that slightly faked 'this is all put on for you benefit' feel you sometimes get (the opening of KOTOR is a prime example of this awful ,method).

Okay. I got your point. I thought that you were referring to the tutorial when you wrote the first post. Apologies for misunderstanding.

Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but I like these intros for the most part. Candlekeep was pleasant and not too long. Irenicus' Dungeon was a lot of fun the first time around - it's only when I'm replaying BG2 that it annoys me.

Hmm.. I'm little surprised about your's opinions about Fable beginning. Okey, it's really a little bit childish but so is rest of the game. And the idea of growing older and more serious over time is imho brilliant. Well maybe not so good executed yet still enjoyable and somehow refreshing. I was really appealed to the game after that one and hmm, I think It made me really think that the character i was playing was me (okey, yet another "well, not so good", but still I think you're being too harsh).

And others good beginnings? Well, Fallout has really marvelous start. The rat cave is really small and you quickly go to world map and then... the Shady Sands, the place when I thought (for the first time) that this game is the GAME. Simple as that. Fallout 2 couldnt stand with his rather booooring beginning...

Morowind has another good opening imo. It giving the player the best it got: freedom. Actually It was period with I liked the most from ES3 (the first few hours). It was fun to wanna steal even forks and plates from shacks of poor people

hmm Planescape is the game with didnt appear before, strange... Mortuary is really well thought and Mort make this period especially amusing (well like he makes the rest of the game ). Reading from mine back just cant be forgotten. And the zombie-attract speech, mmm... sweet

mr_sir wrote:I like the intro to Morrowind - it makes you feel like you are a prisoner that was just thrown off a boat onto an island and the disorientation fits with that. Plus it tells you all the important things and if you ask around for directions you can learn about the rest. I actually view the whole of Seyda Neen as the intro though.

Complete agreement. For once, you really felt like the nobody you supposedly are at the start of most RPGs: nearly penniless, unknown, released for reasons you haven't been given from captivity, surrounded by dangers you can't understand. Good way to start an RPG.