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What I mean by that is, regardless of who you play as, and unless you're soloing...you're gunna get the gist of the fighter/ranger/cleric/thief/mage classes simply by NPCs you carry with you throughout the game.

I found that the sorcerer class was significanty unlike anything the NPCs could provide in terms of experience.

I'm guessing the Monk is a significantly *different* experience as well. Anything else you'd recommend?

my last few games have been fighter dualled to mage and that has been enjoyable.

I did Monk ages ago - that was the oddest run through I have had.

I'm tempted to say "bard" - I always thought that the bard was a bit crap BUT when I had HD join the party at level 13, I realised that at higher levels bards are actually quite nifty - they combine mage/thief and fighter.

perhaps you could create and then SK a higher level bard to see what you think before starting one from scratch?

I'm playing a game with Haer Dalis in my party right now so I've come to learn that class pretty well.

A few problems:

1. He's weak, THACO sucks, severe proficiency limitations beyond short/long sword.

2. Improved Bard Song - that's his primary value to a party (see 3)

3. He gets his spells extremely slowly. Unfortunately, it takes ages until he can cast significant volumes of mislead/simulacrum/project image which is the only way you can use him WITHOUT turning off the battle song.

But I agree. Probably, one of the more unusual classes to experience

I would also say that the bard is a different experience. Initially I wasn't very interested in playing a bard, but then I decided to give it a try and it was one of the most enjoyable runs through the game that I've ever had; I played as a [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/classes/skald.php"]skald.[/url] In my view, the bard stronghold quest is probably the best of the bunch, and the class itself provides a lot of diversity.
Though, it is definitely more of a roleplaying, as opposed to powergaming, class.

Or for another really different experience I'd seriously recommend the [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/classes/wildmage.php"]wild mage.[/url]

RPG Guy (sorta) wrote:I'm playing a game with Haer Dalis in my party right now so I've come to learn that class pretty well.

A few problems:

1. He's weak, THACO sucks, severe proficiency limitations beyond short/long sword.

2. Improved Bard Song - that's his primary value to a party (see 3)

3. He gets his spells extremely slowly. Unfortunately, it takes ages until he can cast significant volumes of mislead/simulacrum/project image which is the only way you can use him WITHOUT turning off the battle song.

But I agree. Probably, one of the more unusual classes to experience

1. Given the number of strength enhancing spells/items in the game, weak is not a problem, but even offensive spin doesn't come close to matching the difference between a bard THACO and a fighter's.

2. Improved bard song in the right party can make a powerful party into an almost indestructible party.

3. Unless you have a bard-mod, he will never get simulacrums, since it's a level 8 spell and bards are limited to level 6 spells. And that is a problem with a bard (compared to say... fighter/mage). Spell progression is rather slow. But the experience of going through the game as a bard is different (IMO) than other "standard" classes, and one that I would recommend to someone looking for more challenge.

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I recently created a bard and can agree on Haer'Dalis.

But I think you should be a blade for your main protaginist and here's why.

You can pump your stats to 18-16s for respective strength, dex, con, int etc to allow for the best possible bard.

You don't need many proficiences - aside from two-weapon fighting 3 stars, scimitars 1 star - your melee fighting is done - combine this with belm offhand and water's edge mainhand with melodic chain - you will be able to cover melee compatible by the end of the underdark or probably sooner.

At the beginning tho i'd focus on 1 proficiency in shortbow and two handed weapon style and pick up tuigans bow - thats your 3 attacks til you get better melee weapons/armor for your bard.

At higher levels the HLA's improve your bard alot - Enhanced Bard Song replaces your basic bard song so Skald bonuses aren't alot in comparison. UAI has loads of threads on its capabilities - caromsyr being one of them. Flute - the ability to throw 3 delayed fireballs once a day seems like neat to me - stuck in a area with loads of enemies - throw as many as you can. The other HLA's are basic thief ones but still give the bard improvements in terms of trap settings and Avoid, Evasion and Greater Evasion strengthen your Bard - with any of these and your Bard profencies your a power-house when played right.

If your ever in trouble go invisible and just continually sing bard song with the cloak of non-detection. Although its good to note that a Blade's bard song doesn't progress with levels so when you do reach that HLA Enhanced Bard Song you begin to realise just how much of an improvement it is from the regular Bard Song - but this does make a Skald's character a bit less desirable as by this time the Blade's offensive capabilities will be of greater value AND will have Enhanced Bard Song.

When TOB comes and you have the blade-singer chain in your possession its possible to get the best armor for the bard right from Chapter 8 for the rest of the TOB game.

TOB gives access to loads of high-level scrolls that your Bard can use and will only strengthen him in levels - having more than one evasion, more traps settings can only help in those circumstances were you actually need more than one.

Acquiring Spectral Blade+5 that grants immunity to level drain is an excellent idea to upgrade from Waters' Edge+3 that you acquired in Ust Natha - also be sure to put a point into Two Handed Sword in case the need arises that you want 50% Magic Resistance. The reason for scimitars being a bard's primary choice of weapon - high damage output, low speed factor and some of the best scimitars can be found when completing the druids grove - Belm+2 and Rashad's Talon+2 - until you go into the underdark for that +3 scimitar your set until then.

Its ideal to be a half-elf and install the aPack mod section - Elven Charm/Sleep Resistance as this also install the racial bonuses for Half-Elf and Half-Orc. Humans don't have any racial bonuses but being half-elf will enable you to continue a romance with Viconia if that floats your boat.

Ideal stats would be 15 18 16 17 10 15 - if you get anything better great but I feel these are the least amount of stats you will need to probably manage a Blade and hopefully get the most out of the character you were hoping to.

The 1/2 Lore of a bard won't be much since Bard's have a ridiculously high Lore when they get to level 40 you won't even notice the difference - even half of that will be enough to get you through the game.

Pickpocketing - aside from Ribald and other notable i've never picked anyone - not my thing but if this is your thing even that 1/2 reduction won't mean much when you got some levels backing you.

Utilising all up the 2 level 8 magic spells is crucial - i use ease-of-use-mod to get a better grasp of those spell progression - a bard will have pot loads - more than my cleric/illusionist had when he was maxed out. Utilizing these into protective/disabling/removing - offensive might not be the best way to go but having that one level 8 slot of Abi Dalzhims Horrid Wilting wouldn't hurt.

Proper use of the offensive spin and defensive spin can make your Blade into a powerhouse - imagine this, you pop a invisibility potion, invoke defensive spin that brings your already ridiculous low AC even lower, and since you've ran out of spells or are not wanting to damage your blade further since he's hurt - you start singing that Enhanced Bard song ? Invisibility+Defensive Spin+Enhanced Bard Song=a very good looking Blade that can utilize Bard Song effectively - the strength of your allies would increase alot will keeping you from harm - invisibility plus aslyferund chain+enhanced bard song = -16AC all the while pumping up your allies with Immunities to Fear, Stun, Confusion better defensive and AC bonuses.

As you can see the possibilities for a Blade are ALOT in terms of sheer power.

You should however note that I never tried a Bard til yesterday. If anyone is out there that can expand on this please do.

Amran_X_Kaiser wrote: You should however note that I never tried a Bard til yesterday. If anyone is out there that can expand on this please do.

LOL - great response on the bard. I doubt there's much to expand upon there.

Thanks for the tip on HD's spell cap limit at LVL 6. I was wondering when L7 might kick in but it's been a lo-ong wait. Now I know why.

I already have the uber-armor for HD (Aslyferund Elven Chain + 5). I've had it pretty much since the beginning of ToB like you said. Coincidentally, I *just* won the Spectral Band from the wagering carrion on WK LVL 3...not even 10 minutes ago and I'm not even joking. So I'll give it a whirl in the main hand like you suggest.

But getting back to the main point of the thread, I was looking for interesting classes to try that you CAN'T experience through use of the NPCs. Haer Dalis has given me a pretty good feeling for the Bard class. But I denfintely agree that the bard is one of the more unusual, interesting and challenging classes no doubt.

So far we got the 'monk' and a 'wild mage' suggestion (good one Wenchy!).

RPG Guy (sorta) wrote:What I mean by that is, regardless of who you play as, and unless you're soloing...you're gunna get the gist of the fighter/ranger/cleric/thief/mage classes simply by NPCs you carry with you throughout the game.

I found that the sorcerer class was significanty unlike anything the NPCs could provide in terms of experience.

I'm guessing the Monk is a significantly *different* experience as well. Anything else you'd recommend?

A Monk is a unique experience. It's hard to find a really good NPC backstabber also (F/T), and F/M are non-existant (I recommend a Gnome F/Illusionist).

Amran_X_Kaiser wrote: At the beginning tho i'd focus on 1 proficiency in shortbow and two handed weapon style and pick up tuigans bow - thats your 3 attacks til you get better melee weapons/armor for your bard.

FYI, the weapon styles don't help missile weapons.

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I know but when HLA kicks in and Caromsyr drops into your lap it would be good in having that profeciency even then there are other THS you can use in the meantime - besides, given the blade limitied profeciency what else you going to spend it on.

Never tried a Wild Mage - unpredictable and quirky tho.

Monk is underpowered in BG2 in comparison with the likes of NWN but if you want to try it go ahead.

I recently had a Monk that was uber-impressive, take some advice and install Oversight Mod that gives the Monk abilities in comparison with Balthazar in TOB that I found matched more to a Monk's style of fighting.

If you can match Keldorn's stats such as 18 Charisma you can acquire his armor that grants you free action and +1 to all saves if you don't mind avoiding using the hiding in shadows.

A monk can use wands and a very small selection of mage scrolls - but potions such as:

• regeneration can make the monk last quite awhile when combined with some of the oversight HLAs
• storm giant strength can dish out some serious damage
• absorption against firegiants and electrical users
• heroism and power especially when taking on the big bosses
• invulnerability is good for low levels fights

Alot of monk abilities - hiding, detecting traps can be used to augment bard powers in pickpocketing.

Weapons aren't a big problem for Monks - scimitars and single proficiency slot is all you need, but if you want range try darts or slings so that you can use Everard's Sling. But when you get the money I'd suggest buying the Monks Blade in Copper Coronet - although not a must - if thieves get a hold of this when using their HLA beware. The poison effect of this blade gives the monk a good boost taking down spellcasters.

Rings, Amulets, Boots and Cloaks aren't much of a boost when high-levels kick in but in the meantime I'll give a run-down on those that can help - Protection+2 gives a good boost to AC and saves, ring of Djini is useful - gaining a spellcasting companion when in those dire situations call for it - its a good idea. Invisibility rings are useful - but if you have an assassin or fighter/thief giving to them would be the wiser move in terms of gaining the most out of the item.

Amulet of Power - ahh the monk's friend, atleast until you get a specific HLA from oversight renders this needless. Although i don't know its compatibility - you might want to try the Sensate Amulet from Diedre in Ribalds srore. I know clerics can use it and since clerics and monks strongholds are the same - you might want to give it a go. The only other I can think of that can improve the monk would be the necklace of missiles - throwing one of them into a room filled with enemies really helps.

Cloak of Displacement helps the Monk avoid missiles at low levels - a level 40 monk gains +13 vs Missiles - although this doesn't help much vs Illasera she isn't the run of the mill archer.

Gargoyle Boots - for the love of everything get this on your monk and it doesn't matter how good the enemy is - it GREATLY reduces your vulnerability in combat - but relying on an item isn't a wise idea for a monk - HLA's, tactics and proper micromanagement can help - this is a addition to the monks already impressive powers.

Gauntlets of Crushing - the beat-down you can give with this is incredible when you acquire these - but getting these isn't easy - if your an evil monk then have no qualms about killing that silly prince in the Sahugins domain.

When you enter Hell your given a certain amount of space concerning your choices for the tears - expanding your monks strength by +2 or getting a +1 cha and wis ? Getting 10% more magic resistance or +2 AC ? alot of options here can increase your monks already impressive powers.

TOB gives the monk certain items that are specific to him - better AC boost, more HP and regeneration - these are items/potions that you should be looking to acquire to when your in SOA - in conjunction with these items your monk will have low AC to the point of -10, as much hp as possible, magic resistance to a high point of nearly 90% and regenerating better than a troll.

Given the sheer amount of 4 attacks with these abilities you will be able to conquer most of the games enemies through adaptability and skill.

The oversight HLA's is something I think you should invest in - it only adds to the monk abilities/style that will only enhance your playability of that class.

Amran_X_Kaiser wrote:Amulet of Power - ahh the monk's friend, atleast until you get a specific HLA from oversight renders this needless.

The Amulet of Power can't be used by Monks with the latest patch and tweaks, nor should it be... the Monk is not a spellcaster. It sure makes undead fights a lot tougher though.