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ok so, i know i have made a similar post but i want to know what your best 3 char parties are!

i do not know enough about it to know to be honest but i was thinking something along the lines of:-

fighter - dwarf - 2 warhammers (crom faeyr and something else)

theif-fighter - archer of some sort i dont know what they can use

mage - necromancers are my favourite but i dont really know


can anyone tell me some specifics about the best way to make that party, or tell me their opinions on what the best 3 char party is?

thanks guys

HE fighter/mage/thief
HE ranger/cleric
Gnome fighter/illusionist

please can you give more info on your characters so people can see what you want to do with them, what do your characters specialise in etc, what items would you use with them etc.

The XPCap is 8,000,000 XP which a party of 3 will reach early in ToB.

The ultimate party needs a thief who can use all the thieving abilities. Since thieves don't get much better after level 13 and multiclasses gain HLAs as fast as pure classes, a single class thief is wasted.
Multiclassing with fighter yields far more attacks per round, better thac0 and damage (which even supports backstabbing) without a real disadvantadge.
Since HLAs are the only really useful thing fighters gain after level 17 it doesn't hurt much to add a third class, triple class characters can still reach fighter level 18 within the cap, 22 thief levels yield more than enough skill points.
Mage spells are cheesily overpowered, the ability to make this character immune to damage with mage spells like stoneskin and mirror image is more important than the hitpoints you loose.
As for weapons I'd take belm, kundane or the scarlet ninja-to (UAI) in the off-hand for the extra main hand attack. The CF katana is the best main-hand weapon in SoA and still one of the better backstabbing weapons in ToB. The axe of the unyielding can be a nice weapon for direct combat, axe profiency will also allow to use throwing axes.
It doesn't hurt if you are prepared for monsters who can also be hurt by blunt weapons, the most damaging backstab weapon is a quarterstaff you get in ToB.

The ultimate party should be able to cast cleric and druid spells at the highest casting level, a ranger/cleric multiclass can do both while getting a lot of fighting power. Spell effects are capped at level 20 so the 25 cleric levels the multiclass gets are sufficient.
As most used weapon I'd take flail of ages, depending on situation you can use a shield or CF in your off-hand, some fights are easier if you switch to the improved mace of disruption.
For the ranged option specialise in sling.

Now you only need someone to cast the overpowered mage spells. 3,750,000 XP are enough to get the highest spell effects and cast 2 level 9 spells per day, a fighter/mage multiclass combines sufficient mage power and extreme combat skills. You could also use a dualclassed kensai9 or 13/mage, but I think the far more HLAs outweight the higher mage levels of the dualclass.
Gnome gives 19 int, better saves and illusionist gives an extra spell per level. The forbidden necramancy spells can be cast by character1.
I'd go for 2-handed weapons, like quarterstaff for the qs+4 from ribald or the SotM.
Maybe also daggers for the the extremely powerful throwing daggers and/or shortbow.

ok thanks, is HE half elf?

also when i make these character should i make them fighter/theif/mage (for example) from the start? or should i multi-class them during the game?

what is the difference between multi-class and dual class? or are they the same thing?

thanks

1) yes
2) you cannot multiclass during the game, only at creation.
3) Only non-humans can multiclass, they choose their classes at creation and all XP they get are divided evenly among the classes.
Only humans can dual-class, only once during their career they can stop levelling in their class forever and start in a new class from level1. They'll never improve in their first class again.
For more details and which multiclasses/dualclasses are allowed read the manual or search the forum.

so i am looking at:

half elf - fighter/theif/mage multiclass (so i am equal level on all classes)

half elf - ranger/cleric (again equal level)

gnome - illusionist/fighter (again equal level)

yeah? last time i tried making a party i screwed up so i want to make sure before i make them that i am getting it right!

Multiclasses get equal XP for all classes, the levels can differ, but yeah !
Make sure all your characters get maxed out dex and con at creation.

Btw: You didn't screw up your last party, it was balanced and had everything needed and surely strong enough to finish the game. It just wasn't a powergaming party.

The ultimate party is subjective and depends on the playing style. What I suggested isn't set in stone. There are many possibilities to create an extremely powerful 3 char party, don't force yourself to play one you don't like only because the game might get a little easier with it.

so my last party was good? hate to ask such simple questions but please could you give me an idea of what to max out, strength, con, intelligence etc which each char? for example does wisdom affect mages?

kmonster wrote:The XPCap is 8,000,000 XP which a party of 3 will reach early in ToB.

The ultimate party needs a thief who can use all the thieving abilities. Since thieves don't get much better after level 13 and multiclasses gain HLAs as fast as pure classes, a single class thief is wasted.
Multiclassing with fighter yields far more attacks per round, better thac0 and damage (which even supports backstabbing) without a real disadvantadge.
Since HLAs are the only really useful thing fighters gain after level 17 it doesn't hurt much to add a third class, triple class characters can still reach fighter level 18 within the cap, 22 thief levels yield more than enough skill points.
Mage spells are cheesily overpowered, the ability to make this character immune to damage with mage spells like stoneskin and mirror image is more important than the hitpoints you loose.
As for weapons I'd take belm, kundane or the scarlet ninja-to (UAI) in the off-hand for the extra main hand attack. The CF katana is the best main-hand weapon in SoA and still one of the better backstabbing weapons in ToB. The axe of the unyielding can be a nice weapon for direct combat, axe profiency will also allow to use throwing axes.
It doesn't hurt if you are prepared for monsters who can also be hurt by blunt weapons, the most damaging backstab weapon is a quarterstaff you get in ToB.

The ultimate party should be able to cast cleric and druid spells at the highest casting level, a ranger/cleric multiclass can do both while getting a lot of fighting power. Spell effects are capped at level 20 so the 25 cleric levels the multiclass gets are sufficient.
As most used weapon I'd take flail of ages, depending on situation you can use a shield or CF in your off-hand, some fights are easier if you switch to the improved mace of disruption.
For the ranged option specialise in sling.

Now you only need someone to cast the overpowered mage spells. 3,750,000 XP are enough to get the highest spell effects and cast 2 level 9 spells per day, a fighter/mage multiclass combines sufficient mage power and extreme combat skills. You could also use a dualclassed kensai9 or 13/mage, but I think the far more HLAs outweight the higher mage levels of the dualclass.
Gnome gives 19 int, better saves and illusionist gives an extra spell per level. The forbidden necramancy spells can be cast by character1.
I'd go for 2-handed weapons, like quarterstaff for the qs+4 from ribald or the SotM.
Maybe also daggers for the the extremely powerful throwing daggers and/or shortbow.

This was a great post kmonster.

Thanks.

@Mohag:
Wisdom isn't very useful for mages. It only affects lore and wish spells. But you need at least 16 for some specalist mage classes like necromancer.


For the F/M/T I'd set dex, int and con to 18 while minimizing wis. If you are very lucky and patient you can also get str and cha to 18, else you can dump cha to 3 and wear the ring of human influence which sets cha to 18. You can even get 18 in all stats this way and obtain the perfect party leader if you don't mind a blocked ring slot.

For the R/C set str, dex, con and wis to 18, lower cha to the minimum and put the rest into int. With a little patience at least 11 int should be reachable, but you can live with 6 int or lower wisdom.

For the F/I max out int, dex and con and dump cha. If you plan to abuse the wish spells very often 16 wisdom is sufficient to get always the positive option. But even with 2 wis this is doable since you just can have your high wis R/C talk to the genie before he talks to your F/I.
16 wis, 19 int, 18 str, dex and con should be achieveable quite fast when rolling at character creation, but lower wis or str don't matter too much.
If either character 1 or 3 has at least 10 wisdom you'll have someone with high lore and have to cast the "identify" spell less often.

About strength:
2 strength spells in a row give 18/00 str to any character and items can grant even more, if a character wears a girdle of giant strength it doesn't matter at all if he has 9 or 18 natural strength. You can lower strength to the minimum if you plan to wear strength girdles and never unequip them for other equipment.

right ok thanks so much for all the help, i think i have made my final team, i havent accounted for strength items so i might edit my main char using shadowkeeper to move points from strength to wisdom so he can identify stuff (just cause it is useful) the main char is the fighter/mage/theif so i think i will max his wisdom instead of strength - then i will use the ring of human influence for charisma and a girdle of strength (whatever type) for strength, then he will be maxed out all around!

crom faeyr for the cleric ranger? that is my next issue, items.

with the high level abilites or whatever they are called the theif one of use any item right? does that mean with my fighter mage theif can wear proper armour and still cast spells and use theiving abilities?

i know you were talking about some items in earlier posts but i didnt really understand your choice of weapons for example belm, i didnt think it was that good to be honest, is there something i am missing? and cf katana, how come that is a decent backstabbing weopon?

also with backstab is there a way to make him do that all the time? should i be using it in every fight?

ok that has turned into a lot of questions, sorry about that i just havent really understood your choices.

You can't ever cast mage spells while wearing armour, and you can only use thieving abilities while wearing light armour. However, you can wear helmets and shields, which can be quite helpful.
As to backstabbing, you'll have to be invisible, coming from behind or sides. It takes some planning, often doesn't work, and then you have your escape to consider. Leaving one character alone "behind enemy lines" is a dangerous tactic most of the time; usually you will want to keep your party tight. But with a little planning, a little magic, and maybe a pair of boots of speed, it can be worthwhile.
As to equipment, most of it you will encounter yourself as you move on. But if you're really impatient there are complete lists of all the things you can find and where you find them all over the internet.

i thought the theif had a hla were they could use any item?

As for weapons I'd take belm, kundane or the scarlet ninja-to (UAI) in the off-hand for the extra main hand attack.

ok you are saying use scarlet ninja-to on a fighter/theif/mage but it is monk only? (what is UAI that might anwser my question?)

UAI == Use Any Item; the High Level Ability (HLA) that allows a thief (or bard) to use any item. However, don't count on having UAI for a while. You're going to have to live without it for a while, until you've earned enough XP to get to whatever the min.level is to earn your first HLA.

Mohag wrote:i thought the theif had a hla were they could use any item?

Oh, if he has both some fighter and some mage in him, he can use almost any item from the very start (not as with clerics, who are always restricted to blunt weapons no matter what). But if he uses heavy mails, he can't thieve. I don't think there is any way to bypass this if you don't want to cheat. It's for reasons of balance: thief abilities are something thieves get because they would be so crap otherwise. Fighters fight, and so therefore don't have thief skills. In the case of the multi-class character, he can be both at different times, but you can't get every benefit from both classes at the same time. Same with mages: even if they can wear armour, it will prevent them from casting. As simple as that.

yeah but my point was surely if you have a theif in your multi-class then when you have UAI it is possible to wear whatever you want and still cast spells and use theiving abilities. you know what i mean?

I know what you mean, but unfortunately, you can't.
You cannot sneak, find traps, pickpocket or pick locks while wearing heavy armour, whether or not you have UAI. You cannot cast spells while wearing any armour.
You can still backstab, but only with weapons normally available to thieves, so the UAI doesn't really do anything for you here either. What UAI might do for a thief/fighter/mage is to allow you to use a few items normally restricted to Paladins, Clerics, Monks, etc, most of them useless for a thief anyway, so don't expect too much of this feat in this case. Normally you pick it to be able to cast spells off scrolls and use wands, but since you are part mage you can do that already.

oh, well thats lame. i thought it did. so it isnt useful at all then really? so if i ever want to cast spells or use thieving abilities i have to take my armour of, bit annoying. ok thanks for your help