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A Very simple question but with a complex meaning and answer. But first off, before I explain, I want to make this thread exclusively RPG's only. Action RPG's, RPG Hybrids, or any sort of other RPG that has a secondary title in the genre doesn't count.

So you have all sorts of RPG's, very few of them are complete though. And what I mean by complete is that there's some piece of the puzzle missing.

So far, out of the games that I've personally played, KoToR 1 came the closest to complete if it weren't for the rather dull ending and the few glitches.

Now, there are some great RPG's out there, but most RPG's tend to go on one side of a feature. There are games that are mostly about the story and tend to lack in characters and options. Theres Oblivion which praises open-endedness, but lacks direction and story. You have a game like Two Worlds which lacks character development and NPC conversation, but has a lot of character options and unique beasts. Neverwinter Nights two has some great NPC's and character development, character options, and a great story, but it lacks action, you do fight a few monsters but fighting is really a tertiary thing in the game, plus NWN2 isn't all that innovative considering it's using a premade system of rules for the game.

So, is there a game out there that is nearly 100% complete. Character Options, Character Story and Development, Game options, NPC conversation development, Good/Neutral/Evil options, the ability to go multiple ways through the game, some that involve little fighting and some that are pure dungeon crawl, a solid interface, very few glitches or at least patches that fix the initial game install glitches, and most importantly, unique. No use of Rules from other books or games, no familiar character systems, no nothing like that.

Does such a game exist? And if not, what do you think is the closest game to being 100% an RPG.

Edit: Oh, and when I say current RPG, I don't mean up to date and 3D or anything. I simply mean any RPG that has already been released and isn't upcoming or cancelled.

Given your rather strict parameters, the nearest to a complete game that has a forum on this site is Arcanum IMHO.

You're restrictions eliminate games like the Baldur's Gate series and other D&D based games, so that does limit the choice a lot.

Strange that you state that KOTOR 2 came the closest as that was one of the most incomplete games ever. Large chunks of the game were left on the cutting room floor, and it didn't even have a proper closing sequence and several of the narrative threads were left hanging and there was no final 'movie'.

KoTOR 2? Crap, accidentally put the number two in there for some reason. That should read the first KotoR. I'll fix that.

KOTOR 1 makes a lot of sense, although in reality it uses the same engines and 'rules' as NWN. It's presented somewhat differently, but if you examine the 2da files you'll see that the structure is the same as D&D.

It's a good choice, though I'll stick to my first option, namely Arcanum.

I'd also say that Arcanum comes closest to a "complete" RPG. Even though it has quite a number of flaws, things essential for a good role-playing game are there and are executed almost perfectly (except combat).

galraen wrote:KOTOR 1 makes a lot of sense, although in reality it uses the same engines and 'rules' as NWN. It's presented somewhat differently, but if you examine the 2da files you'll see that the structure is the same as D&D.

It's a good choice, though I'll stick to my first option, namely Arcanum.

Yeah, I know. But it's not DND just to let you know, it is D20 Star Wars, but it wasn't developed by Wizards of the Coast.

Those seem like... stringent restrictions, to say the least. Everything is based on something else, doesn't matter if they change a few nouns, so I don't think there are any truly unique systems/games out there, which is fine.

I do appreciate what you're asking though - I don't think any game in recent history has met what I'm looking for (Darklands, Fallout, Baldur's Gate). I think Fable TLC came reasonably close. I'm enjoying the special edition of Jade Empire, though it falls short of a lot of what you laid out.

I have a strong feeling that future RPGs are going to be niche games:
a) Open ended, massive worlds for those who don't like direction
b) Story based, for those who find freedom and choice intimidating
c) 12 Hour Long Action RPGs, for people with short attention spans

I think the days of combining these best elements of the RPG genre into one game are over, though maybe Dragon Age will change that.

Personally, I think that Jade Empire is the most complete. Its not my favorite, but it fits the perimeters you stated.

kyle wrote:Those seem like... stringent restrictions, to say the least. Everything is based on something else, doesn't matter if they change a few nouns, so I don't think there are any truly unique systems/games out there, which is fine.

I do appreciate what you're asking though - I don't think any game in recent history has met what I'm looking for (Darklands, Fallout, Baldur's Gate). I think Fable TLC came reasonably close. I'm enjoying the special edition of Jade Empire, though it falls short of a lot of what you laid out.

I have a strong feeling that future RPGs are going to be niche games:
a) Open ended, massive worlds for those who don't like direction
b) Story based, for those who find freedom and choice intimidating
c) 12 Hour Long Action RPGs, for people with short attention spans

I think the days of combining these best elements of the RPG genre into one game are over, though maybe Dragon Age will change that.

I don't think story based means there has to to be limited choices. Baldur's Gate was story based and it had huge scope for choices. I find story based games like BG fun and entertaining, while I found oblivion just plain boring. I hope the witcher and Dragon Age bring back the great story rpg's that I miss.

Yeah, Open Ended Gaming and Story Based gaming are not opposite terms.

Morrowind had quite a few good well done stories within the game yet it was by far one of the most open ended games ever done.

KoTOR 1 and 2 have a lot of options you can do that change the story based gaming, from simply being good or evil, to communicating with your companions and gaining more of their trust while losing other companions trust.

Anyways, back on topic.