GameBanshee Forums

OK, I tried the solo thing and got my head handed to me on a silver platter. So to get the two main necessary classes(Cleric and Rogue)I decided on two characters, both Half-Elf. The first being a Cleric(obvious)/Rogue(evasion and sneak attack)/Barbarian(cleave) and the second being a Ranger(racial enemy)/Rogue(see above)/Monk(cool abilities). If you agree with me on these what do you think I should start at and what do you think I should add first, second, etc. And if you don't agrees with me please tell me of better class combos. I did run into one problem though. If I start as a Barbarian, when I add my first level of Cleric I only get 5 turn undeads/day as opposed to the 9 I'd get starting as a cleric. But when I start as a Cleric I don't get the Cleave ability when I add my first level of Barbarian. If this has something to do with the D&D rules can someone please explain it to me because I'm new to 3rd edition and all I know of it is what's written in the PoR manual. But even though I am quite familiar with BG and IWD they seemed to have changed the multiclassing system for the better. Oh I forgot to mention the stats used for each character.
Cleric/Barbarian/Rogue: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int -4, Wis +2, Cha +2
Ranger/Rogue/Monk: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha -4
Basically I did the same thing I was doing with my solo character(R.I.P.). I totally drained the ability that I wasn't gonna use and set the others even. If anyone else can come up with better stats please lemme know.

Come on... can someone post something.

something,,,ehehhe j/k im still trying to make it through w/ 6 people so i cant really say yay or nay to ur question.

OK, I know you guy are probably tired of me asking for help about the same thing over and over, but how does this party look?
Half-Elf Cleric/Barb/Rogue: Str+2, Dex+2, Con+2, Int-4, Wis+2, Cha+2
Half-Elf Ranger/Rogue: Str+2, Dex+2, Con+2, Int+2, Wis+2, Cha-4
Half-Elf Monk/Sorceror: Str+2, Dex+2, Con+2, Int-4, Wis+2, Cha+2
I realized I needed the Sorceror when I remembered how useful Charm Person and Mass Suggestion were against Drow, and Magic Missiles against ghostly critters like Wraiths, Spectres, and Shadows. If anyone has suggestions on other Multiclasses and stats please post 'em. And if you can tell me why I don't get Cleave when I add my first level of Barb I'd be eternally grateful. Thanks.

Ok. First some remarks. Why do you have 2 rogues and why use character with 3 classes. My suggestion is this:

Human: Paladin\Cleric (Enchances greatly their ability to turn undead + the great ability of paladin to apply thier charisma bonus on all of their saving throws)

Dwarf: Fighter\Ranger (This is my favourite. Zero stats to int, wis and cha +2 bonus on constitution and when you drink from the fountain of earth and get the ring of amulet of brute strength you will have a tank with you since all of your stats STR, DEX and CON will be 20+). Don't need the int bonus for the skills and feats and no need to keep a high WIS so that the ranger casts spells.

Half-Elf: Rogue/Sorcerer(Keep str, con and wis to normal(no bonus) and boost CHA, DEX and INT.Rogue is essential for his skills and i the sorcerer if not for thier limited spells for all this powerfull wands you find during the game.

Keep in mind that Dwarves have the limitation with their class level. Their class levels must be no more that 1 level apart.
Another thing, about the Paladin/Cleric character i found it usefull to raise his paladin level up to 6 to get his 2nd attack and then boost his cleric class.

Hope this helps

As for the cleave feat. I don't know about barbarians since i haven't tried it but a fighter will get this feat sooner or later. I don't know how the 3rd edition D&D rules handle skills & feat on a Cleric/Barb but i think it has something to do with intelligence.

The limitation thing referred to my previous post about the Dwarf Fighter/Ranger does not aplly since fighter is the favoured class of a dwarf. Sorry about that.

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Demis ]

Here's the reason why I have rogue twice. First is the Ranger/Rogue. I plan on maxing both of these out gaining all the skills. Second is the Cleric/Barbarian/Rogue. I'm gonna max out the Cleric and go half/half with the Barbarian/Rogue. In the second one I'm just using the Rogue for evasion and sneak attacking because I'm only using the Barbarian for some extra HP and Cleave which I don't have yet. And I think a Monk/Sorceror is a better combo than Rogue/Sorceror because you don't have to wear any armor to get a decent AC and later in the game when you get better modifiers(rings etc.) you can get an AC worthy of stepping right into battle with while wearing no armor.

My only comment is I can't tell which character is the primary rogue (for purposes of opening locks, disabling traps, etc.) If the primary one is the Cleric/Barbarian/Rogue, then I forsee trouble with the -4 intelligence. (That directly impacts those critical skills.) I personally am not a fan of the sorcerer class, so I am biased against them (I survived nicely with a solo and a two-man party with no sorcerer, but that's me). I do like the monk/sorcerer combo though, but doesn't the negative score in intelligence impact the sorcerer in some fashion? If not, the 3e rules are really strange.

The INT score has no bearing on the Sorceror. In fact of the classes available the only one that INT really impacts on is the Rogue - high INT means he learns his skills quicker. Seems probable that you don't need to max out the Rogue skills if you have a high INT, so a few levels of one of the "warrior" classes could be usefully added instead.

Don't see the point in adding a few Rogue levels for evasion and sneak attack, Barbarian gets uncanny dodge anyway and it would be better to max this class. Alternatively use Monk and get not only (improved)evasion but Diamond body & soul, Purity of Body, fast movement, still mind, deflect arrows, wholeness of body and more attacks.

Dwarf Fighter/Ranger will be using heavy armour, therefore Dex will be limited to +1. Better to put more into WIS and improve the Will Saves. Anyway I still think a Monk with one of the Fighter Classes is a better combination - much better protection from Magic. Oh and dwarves are slow movers.

@DMC: The primary Rogue is the Ranger/Rogue, which is the one with the Int+2.

I'm still not sure what I wanna combo the Cleric with. Possibly a Monk, and would I then be able to cast Firestorm in my area and recieve little to no damage? And improved evasion sounds pretty good. The Ranger/Rogue I'm pretty set on. But for a third I'm thinking of a Fighter/Monk, a giant invincible fist in the late game. All character will be Half-Elf. I'll post some tentative stats after I get some characters made up. Thanks everyone, and yea the Fighter/Monk tank looks a little better than a Sorceror/Monk magic missile chucker.

I agree with PoD on the rogue issue. I see no reason for a second rogue if you are already incorporating barbarian into the character (or monk for than matter). Each class has the equivalent of the evasion capabilities of a rogue, and I'd certainly take cleave over sneak attack. By the way, start with the barbarian for the early cleave, as there are so many places to rest you should never even exhaust 5 undead turnings, let alone the nine you mentioned earlier. Finally, I love the idea of a fighter monk. You can crash the intelligence and charisma and turn him into a tank of epic proportions, especially with those cool monk-only items that jack up wisdom, damage, movement, etc. I'd be a little careful of having more than one monk, though, as I think the monk tends to be susceptible to attack through the first two thirds of the game if he isn't maxed on dexterity and wisdom, and has the little goodies to boost the stats further. If you're insistent on a three man party, how about fighter/monk, ranger/rogue, and paladin/cleric? The paladin class has some nifty perks and the turning adds on to the cleric, so you can keep pace with the undead you meet while still gaining fighter skills (yeah, you lose the early on cleave, but my recollection is that the fighter classes seem to get it later on anyway (don't necessarily hold me to this, and I certainly welcome input from others) and, further, with a multiple member party, cleave isn't nearly as important as in a solo game. Further, if you do get cleave later as a fighter-type, that's when it would be most important anyway.) These combos allow you to max out each character in two classes, with all the late class bonuses available, gives you a well rounded group where each member can certainly fight (melee or ranged), allows you to use the best armor of each type (as far as weight goes) because I imagine that the rogue/ranger is not going to be wearing plate mail, but the cleric/paladin will, and allows you to pretty much use every item in the game except sorcerer-only ones (and you already know my feelings on that class). Further, assuming you are willing to forego the divine spells available to the ranger (big bleeping deal), you can totally crash at least one stat per character to max out some others from the get go. Good luck and let me know what you think.

OK, I'm gonna go with a Monk/Fighter(starting as a fighter), Ranger/Rogue(starting as a Ranger), and I'm still not sure what to combo the Cleric with. Why does everyone combo Clerics with Paladins? Why not go with a fighter for the feats or barbarian for extra HP? And how do these tentative stats look?
Ranger/Rogue: Str+2, Dex+3, Con+2, Int+2, Wis 0, Cha-4
Fighter/Monk: Str+2, Dex+3, Con+2, Int-3, Wis+3, Cha-4
Cleric/?: Str+2, Dex+2, Con+2, Int-4, Wis+2, Cha+2
I think these stats are pretty decent for the different multiclasses. If anyone says otherwise give a reason. And I think I'm gonna go Cleric/Fighter.

To answer "Why Paladin?", it's simple. You gain fighter-type levels and, except for the first two, you also add to the turning ability. With three characters, you are not going to be leveling up as swiftly as solo or 2, so your cleric is not going to keep pace with the undead if he's also spending some levels with the fighter class. The paladin allows him to keep pace so that you can pretty much guaranty swift and decisive undead battles. That's good for two reasons: (1) nothing is slower than battling tons of undead (even with the speed utility); (2) some of those undead can do nasty things to you. Also, the Paladin's perk of adding the charisma bonus to saves makes up for a lot (timely saves are crucial in the first part of the game). I don't hang much value on the 2 HP difference between Paladin and Barbarian, don't really use the barbarian rage that much, and think that the uncanny dodge is nice but not a deal-breaker. In this particular game, where it seems that half your opponents are undead, maximizing the turning ability is the most crucial. That's why I say Paladin with a multiple character party of three or more. Obviously, if we're talking solo, we're talking cleric/rogue/barbarian or some close version thereof, for reasons discussed elsewhere.

I think is better to use a paladin/cleric. A paladin is one of the few classes that gets natural bonus on savings throughs. This is something that almost all times does comes with a price(having a special natural skill or bonus). Remember all the kits in BG2 in exchange to be immune to something or have some special natural skills you sacrificed something else. In my opinion the paladin class has been greatly enchanced in 3rd D&D. I use a paladin/cleric in my party and he is only 6/2 level but it's almost impossible to be hit by anything that has to do with saving through making him valnurable only to raw damage from blows, this one can be fixed by wearing a nice armour and impove your AC as best as you can. I leave you to your choice.

Originally posted by Skuld
how do these tentative stats look?
Ranger/Rogue: Str+2, Dex+3, Con+2, Int+2, Wis 0, Cha-4
Fighter/Monk: Str+2, Dex+3, Con+2, Int-3, Wis+3, Cha-4
Cleric/?: Str+2, Dex+2, Con+2, Int-4, Wis+2, Cha+2

If you go with Cleric/Fighter or Cleric/Paladin (as the rest of us prefer) then you use the biggest plate armour you can. That means you don't need Dex any better than +1. If you put an extra point on Cha (if you choose Paladin) or Wis, then the first increase you get will give you +3.

If you go Fighter before monk, give +3 to strength rather than wisdom.

With regard to your fighter/monk, why not crash the intelligence to 3 and max out the strength, dexterity and wisdom. I think you wind up with ST +3, Co +1, DX +3, IN -4, WI +3, Ch -4 and constitution ready to go to +2 as soon as you assign another point to it at level 4 (plus the additional boost you can get from various pieces of jewelry or clothing). Also, have you thought of making him a half-orc for the strength boost? The stats harmed by that race are, if I recall correctly, intelligence and charisma, which we're crashing anyway. If you're going to keep the two classes in lockstep, you don't worry about racial favorite class (which, I think, is barbarian). Just a thought. . .

I'm keeping them all Half-Elf for the resistances to charm and sleep. And I'll see about those stats for the figher/monk and cleric/paladin and get back. And about the half-orc just because, one day, I made two monks one human and one half-orc and they came out the same as far as I remember although I could be mistaken. Thanks again. Oh I forgot about the reason I keep strength at +2 for the fighter/monk I'll give him the bloodstone amulet, which gives him +2 str and -2 con. I knew there was a reason.