Not so non-detectable.

Blackraven. · Post by **Blackraven.** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:43 am

I have a fighter->thief with a cloak of non-detection, yet there was quite a few cases where he would hide in shadows and still be seen by some creatures (without true sight or leaving shadows) such as demons or vampiric mists. Is this their innate ability? Or is it a bug? Even if it was innate, shouldn't the cloak do something?

Or perhaps it's smell?... reminds me of a certain head troll that told me that he could smell me as I got ready to stab him :S

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:17 am

It is written in their script. You are still non-detectable, invisible, i.e. True Sight and the like will not reveal your presence, but those monsters can see and attack even Invisible or Sanctuaried characters. Some other enemies can do it as well. Almost any 'boss' can see you and target you with spells while you're invisible or hidden. Maybe Irenicus is the exception. But for instance if you play Jaheira's quest, Reviane and Dermin will cast spells at, attack and see an invisible character without any trouble, while the rest of their party will stand in place doing nothing.

Most of the tougher demons can do this as well. The Fell Cats in Yaga-shura's lair can also detect you. There are more enemies with such a script, yet I cannot remember all. Ah, yes, liches have this ability too, so don't rely on improved invisibility+SI: Divination when fighting them.

This is not a bug.

Blackraven. · Post by **Blackraven.** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:34 am

Thanks for the reply.
It doesn't make much sense to me, they shouldn't be able to do that IMO. But I guess it's for the best... the game wouldn't be as fun if I could backstab every 'boss' to death or near death before they even get a chance to fight back. It was still a nasty surprise when I was level drained by a swarm of vampiric mists when I thought I was perfectly safe :|.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:07 pm

Yes, I personally too despise Vampiric Mists. They can go invisible whenever they want, can see your characters even concealed/invisible, have some low-level spells at their disposal and their attacks are lvl-draining, and also are fire, ice and electricity immune. Yet, the best way to protect vs them is using a decent Cleric who Turns Undead all of the time, or a good thief, namely Jan, who detects Invisibility all of the time. The other way is using Hold Undead spell or Holy Smite spell or Skull Trap when all of your characters are protected from Magical Energy.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 pm

I recall dragons having the ability to see you as well. Mind Flayers are supposed to have it, but doesn't. There are quite a bunch of monsters who can see through it, unfortenately. No more backstabing heaven as BG1 was.

The creature most noticable for having the ability of seeing through insibility is, however, the Planetar. Summonable. Sweet, sweet summon.

drktmplar · Post by **drktmplar** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:33 pm

On the same note, the Cloak of Non-Detection does not protect against True Seeing.

...that sucks.

I was wearing the cloak in Adventure Mart, cast Improved Invisibility, and the merchant there True Saw (True Seeing'ed?) me. :-(

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:01 pm

Maybe Ribald is one of those characters that is coded to detect invisible characters - the true sight casting may just be for show.

I really have no idea.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:28 pm

The cloak of non-detection only woks with stealth as far as I know, not invisibility spells.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:28 am

The cloak also works with invisibility unless one of the creatures/NPCs present has the [expletive deleted] cheat ring that gives them 'Detect Invisibility by script'.

The ring of course doesn't drop, the 'droppable' box isn't checked, same is true of a lot of rings. Loads of monsters/NPCs wear a ring of invisibility that turns them invisible by just wearing it. The two invisible thieves at the end of the starter dungeon have one for example.

As an experiment I actually changed several of them so they do drop, including the invisible detection ring, you can't see the invisible monsters on screen, but you character can, so if you have AI turned on they will attack them.

I can understand why Bioware didn't want to allow the player to get their hands on these rings, but one of the 'Golden Rules' that was drummed into me as a DM decades ago is hat if you don't want your players to have an item, you don't put it into the game. It's called fair play, if the player can't have an item, neither should their opponents. Bioware, and others, routinely ignore that 'rule'.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:11 am

galraen wrote: I can understand why Bioware didn't want to allow the player to get their hands on these rings, but one of the 'Golden Rules' that was drummed into me as a DM decades ago is hat if you don't want your players to have an item, you don't put it into the game. It's called fair play, if the player can't have an item, neither should their opponents. Bioware, and others, routinely ignore that 'rule'.

Well, they were put in probably because it was the easiest way to give attributes to certain characters in certain game situations so they wouldn't have to use a more complicated script. It saves time on their part (and honestly, their scripts were buggy enough in an unpatched game). As for not playing a level playing field, I don't really have a problem with it because it makes the game more interesting, though I suppose it comes down to personal preference.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:03 am

I have no problem with it at all when they give rings to creatures to give them the abilities and resistances they should have. The immunity rings they give to undead are fine and dandy, but when they give the same rings to creatures that shouldn't have those immunities it gets a bit lame.

When they give haste rings that don't drop to NPCs then IMO that's cheating. If I pulled stunts like that on my payers as a DM I'd run out of players darned quick.

I still play the game, and it is just about the best RPG there's been or likely to be, some things are annoying that's all. Bottom line I guess is it's fairly easy to find a new DM, a lot harder to find an RPG that's worth playing time and again, and again...

Revi · Post by **Revi** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:24 am

Galrean, which ring is this? What is the itemname?