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Hello all!

After some years of hiatus I found the complete Baldurs Gate Saga+ Addons for a reasonable price, and I am hooked again. I've decided and already started to play BG and BG2 with the same character in a "normal" party game, so no soloing for me. I play a Half-Elf Fighter/Thief, and I have some questions about how things work on a basic level, especially about thief skills and Backstab.
1) In BG1, there is one ability that covers hiding and moving in shadows, in BG2 I expect to redistribute my thieving skills. Which one is more important, Hide in shadows or move silently? Which one helps with what?

2) Which weapons allow backstabbing? I know that longswords do, do clubs also allow it? Can I backstab multiple times when I have multiple attacks? How does dualwielding affect backstabbing?
What weapon profiencies would you recommend for a Fighter/Thief in Baldurs Gate 2?
My playing style at the moment is that my main character acts as a scout and prepares ambushes, backstabbing the most vital and vulnerable enemies. Picking locks is nice, but secondary, while I see stealth and disarming traps (and maybe laying some traps, too:mischief as a primary function of the character. I like what the character does so far

Thanks in advance for your answers and support!

P.S.: I plan to have a well-rounded and satisfying character for the whole game, so spending skill points on weapons that I will use only in the last two hours of ToB is out of the question.

All weapons that singleclass thieves can be proficient with can be used to backstab with. So club or quarterstaff if you want to backstab with a blunt weapon. One of those is actually the best backstab weapon in the game.
The best swords to backstab with are katanas as they do 1d10 damage.
Hide is used for hiding and move silently for staying hidden when moving.
So you need both really.
Fighter/thief is a very nice class in bg2.

As for thieving skills, I recommend the following in your earlier levels, as skillpoints will be somewhat scarse in the beginning:

(I won't spoil much for you, so will keep it on a general basis)

Pick Pockets: Don't invest. Gold is a-plenty, and you need a fair amount of points for it to work properly without constant load/reload/exploits.

Open locks: Invest up to about 80'ish. That should cover most locks, and those that are tricky, you can gulp down a potion of perception/of the mind/master thievery to boost this stat temporarily. Locks are usually handled outside battle, so you have all the time you need to use potions.

Find/Disarm traps: Boost to about 90'ish: This will be enough for all traps save maybe one or two in the entire game, for which you again can use a potion of the mind/of perception/of power.

Move Silently: Initially, I would not invest much in this, as Hide in Shadows is more important, but agree with what Bruce Lee said: it's a supporting skill for your backstabbing, so slowly increase over time.

Hide in Shadows: The alternative is potions of invisibility or the spell of the same name. However, Hide in shadows is free and doesn't take up an 'initiative round' (you can cast 1 spell or drink 1 potion per round, but you can drink 1 potion AND hide in shadows per round too..) I would get this to about 75-80 in the beginning and slowly raise afterwards as per Move Silently.

Detect Illusions: Depending on your party set-up. This skill is actually incredible if you have it at 100. (above 100 is wasted points as it functions as a percentage, meaning 100 is 100% chance to detect illusions). With 100 in this skill your thief has an effective 'True Sight' spell constantly on when he uses his 'detect traps' skill. Very handy to save on mage/cleric spells. Especially since you can have this skill active while attacking.
Keldorn gets the spell for free a certain number of times per day depending on his level, so again, depends on your playing style and party set-up.

Set Traps: If you want to set traps (highly recommended), get this to 100. This works like the Detect Illusion - with 100, you are 100% sure it will work each time. Don't use traps until you have about 75 points here, as the traps, if unsuccesful might back-fire on you. Of course this is up to you and your own cost/benefit analysis, but at least don't count on them to work when you want them to if your skill is low.


When I play a thief, I usually get these skills first for 'minimum versatility':

Open locks: 80
Find Traps: 90
Move Silent: 50
Hide in Shadows: 100
Set Traps: 100
Rest at base.

Depending on your DEX, you can get this with an elf around thief level 7-8, which is basically at the beginning of the game.
After that, you can pick and choose to match your playing style. Just remember that in the end, you'll have enough theif skills to do everything, so if you misplace a few points, don't sweat it - you'll have enough to go around anyways.

However, considering you're a multiclass, I would advise you to make a strategy on how to invest the first 100 skillpoints you get after getting your 'initial ones'. A fighter/thief multi should start at level 7/8 (depending on whether you start with 89,000 or 161,000 XP), so level 11/12 is at 440,000-660,000 XP meaning that you'll need twice that, so roughly 1,000,000 XP. In a party, the first mil doesn't take that long, but remember that to get your next 100 skill points, you'll have to advance another 4 levels, meaning an extra 880,000x2 XP, which will take some time with a party.

That's just for starters though. As a thief(multiclassed one as well) or swashbuckler, you'll find yourself with an overabundance of points.

Hide in Shadows affects whether you can hide or not while Move Silently dictates whether or not you can stay hidden. Also, after being discovered, Move Silently affects how long you can be unseen or hidden after "Leaving Shadows".

As a thief or swashbuckler I do invest in pickpockets, not for stealing from commoners but rather for shoplifting and I find that a score of 135 - 170 is good. The first will cover most merchants while the latter will prety much cover all of them. Very useful in making and keeping money early on, especially if you use wands.

Detect Illusion is a great skill, as unlike the spells, it does NOT dispel friendly illusions.

The way you invest depends on what role you want to take though. As a swashbuckler for example, I have no points in hide in shadows or move silently, as the class (in my opinnion) has no need of such things.

Set Traps is very useful, but currently I started boycotting it as traps are way too overpowered and make the game significantly easier.

Find/Disarm Traps and Open Locks will be a great source of experience income.

First, let me thank you all for your very help- and insightful replies, they definitely help spending my hard-earned skill points!

One thing, I am sure I've read somewhere that "Move silently" would be even more important as "Hide in shadows", since the formula to hide would be MS+HiS divided by 2, so that would be the average of the two skills, while staying hidden would only be affected by "Move silently", making it the more potent of the two skills as it affects two rolls. Can anyone definitely confirm or deny this system?

Is it possible to backstab more than once, or is the thief discovered as soon after he has made his first attack, and has to hide again (Potion of Invisiblity et al) to backstab again even if he can make multiple attacks per turn?

After playing BG2 as a Paladin about halfway through few years ago, I wanted to do things a little different now. I've tried a fighter/mage, but this guy was just an okay fighter and a crappy caster, and needed lots and lots of maintenance to "work". Too much for my taste, at least in the beginning.
I am in the fifth chapter of BG1 now and am about to enter the city of Baldur's Gate.

No you backstab just once and then have to hide again. Or you could find some means to stay hidden while backstabbing. There is also a HLA that makes all your attacks backstabs for a short time.

Silvanerian wrote:
Detect Illusions: Depending on your party set-up. This skill is actually incredible if you have it at 100. (above 100 is wasted points as it functions as a percentage, meaning 100 is 100% chance to detect illusions). With 100 in this skill your thief has an effective 'True Sight' spell constantly on when he uses his 'detect traps' skill. Very handy to save on mage/cleric spells. Especially since you can have this skill active while attacking.

How do you pull that one off? IIRC, when I attack, the detect traps button becomes un-highlighted.

How do you pull that one off? IIRC, when I attack, the detect traps button becomes un-highlighted.

i dont think you can detect traps/illusions when you are actually attacking.
in my experience,
1. turn off the AI (I hardly use it especially when soloing as it gives me better control).
2. when someone casts an illusion, stop "attacking" (i usually move a pace or two. you could also try the stop icon at bottom left).
i believe this should enable the button to detect traps/illusions.

the main idea is that he should not be "attacking" per se...

Ellesar, you're saying the opposite of what Silvanerian said.

Select the creature to attack, make sure the character has no script active, then press detect traps/illusion button. You will now attack anddetect at the same time. If you want to change target you have to press detect again.

@Klorax: Bruce Lee tells it nicely how to attack and detect at the same time.

@Mordhorst: I cannot confirm or disconfirm your Move Silently/Hide in Shadows theory, but I can confirm that with about 150 skill points devided between the two (I do HiS: 100 MS: 50), then you successfully hide in shadows most of the time when out of bright daylight. (E.g. walk into some shadow that a building casts or be in a dungeon)

For backstabbing, one 1 backstab per invisibility/hide in shadows.
There are only 2 exceptions. 1 is a High level ability which was explained by another poster, the other is a 6th level mage spell. A fighter/thief usually cannot cast this spell, however, after gaining high level abilities you can use the scroll.

Regarding detect illusions: The spell True Sight, which is what this skill mimics, does not dispell friendly illusions, so no worries. The part about the detect illusions is that your thief can get this 'for free' and use it unlimited. There is further the tractical advantage of sending in your thief invisible/hidden to dispell illusions without being seen. (unless the enemy dispells yours first, hehe)


Happy gaming with your figther/thief. It's a fun and straighforward class, and if I understand your comments about the fighter/mage, it should be just your style, as he's very versatile and very easy to play.

Let us know if you have other questions.


PS: There is a mod called Rogue Rebalancing, which you might want to check out. It revamps the rogues (all thief and bard kits) + make a few encounters with rogues more interesting.
However, if this is your first go in SOA/TOB for a long while, I suggest you wait for your second playthrough.

Yes, Bruce Lee tells it in a nice and crisp way. I always have the "standard attack" script on. so for me to access the detect illusions/traps button while attacking, i have to turn off the AI. if not it says "stopped detecting traps" or something similar when my F/T attacks an enemy...

Bruce Lee wrote:Select the creature to attack, make sure the character has no script active, then press detect traps/illusion button. You will now attack anddetect at the same time. If you want to change target you have to press detect again.

Wow, never knew that!

It seems like it is taking advantage of the system, but I like knowing about it.

Hi guys!

I'd like to thank you again for all your support, I have played about 3/4 of BG1/TOTSC now (I know this is the BGII forum, but I plan to play the whole series with one character) and I am enjoying this F/T combination massively. With some not-so-nice tactics I even managed to easily beat Drizzt to get his fine stuff :devil: I have a lot of fun scouting ahead and clearing the way with my own PC in lieu of Imoen, who can't fight her way out of a wet paperbag.
And according to you, it only gets better in Shadows of Amn/Throne of Bhaal

Thanks again!

A certain illusion is quite important in the Windspear Hills. I was wondering what happens if you go there with a detect illusions of 100. I strongly suspect that it won't work, but does anyone know for certain?

yes this one is not dispellable, the same as the one in the underdark

i tried it with true sight

Guys, I just wanted to give a short update of how I am doing. The short answer is: GREAT! I cannot remember having so much fun (and power) with my Paladin or my Berserker from my first two SoA tries a few years ago. The abilities of a Fighter/Thief are so amazing, words fail me. And I still haven't tried "Detect Illusion", since I have had only 50 skill points spare, and with HLA's still to discover I think the character is far away from his peak performance. Way to go!

Two weeks ago I finished BG1 and immediately started SoA with my imported character, and I am having a blast. Thanks again for your support!