hi
i have chosen a pure fighter to be my char but id like to dual-class it to a fighter/mage? but the dual-class button is non-clickable, i have now reached lvl 9 fighter (pure fighter, not kensai etc.) how do i do it? =)
How to dual-class?
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anarchistica
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im thinking about playing with 3 chars and the main one i want to be a dual-class fighter/thief , u guys have any recomendations of who i shall chose? like kensai, wizard slayer, berserker or original fighter? what stats do i need to do this and at wich lvl shall i dual-class? 
(had to remake my recent char 
)
(had to remake my recent char )All 4 are good, if you have TOB. If you don't have TOB, the berserker or the regular fighter are best IMO (because you don't have Use Any Item to remove the Wizard Slayer / Kensai restrictions. If you don't want to use ranged weapons, it's berserker or kensai.
personally, I prefer the multi class fighter thief, because after about level 14 I don't think thief levels are very interesting, and I'd rather still gain fighter levels.
personally, I prefer the multi class fighter thief, because after about level 14 I don't think thief levels are very interesting, and I'd rather still gain fighter levels.
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Crenshinibon
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I suggest either going for Kensai/Thief (dual at fourteen to improve your combat skills or dual at twentyish to make yourself even more powerful). The second option however, takes a long while.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
13 has all the benefits that 14 does, save for 1 point in THAC0 and 3 HP. I think you're much better off switching at 13 if you want to wait that long.Crenshinibon wrote:I suggest either going for Kensai/Thief (dual at fourteen to improve your combat skills or dual at twentyish to make yourself even more powerful). The second option however, takes a long while.
It can be very painful going so long without a Thief. You'd still have a very effective character if you dual-classed right at the beginning (level 7). You also would do very well with a multi-classed Fighter/Thief. Those guys are one of my favorite character classes to play.
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
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Crenshinibon
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Personal preference. I like to get the most class levels. So fourteen fighter levels is the most you can get by losing one thief level.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
Kensai get an additional Kai every 4 levels (1,5,9,13, ect.)shift244 wrote:The Kensai's abilities are gained per 3rd/4th levels... why 14? Why not level up to 12, and then swap to Thief 1 immediately?
Oh neat! I never realized that.Crenshinibon wrote:Personal preference. I like to get the most class levels. So fourteen fighter levels is the most you can get by losing one thief level.
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
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Crenshinibon
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Really? I try to base all of my character builds on getting out the most from the "lost" experience or level.
You can check the experience tables through NI.
You can check the experience tables through NI.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
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Crenshinibon
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It's not exactly like that. It's trading one thief level for fourteen fighter levels.
The thief reaches level forty at eight million experience, which is the cap. In order to dual class we need some experience to use.
So a thief reaches level thirty-nine at 6380000 exp.
That means we have 8000000 - 6380000 = 1620000 experience points remaining.
So looking at the experience charts we see that to reach level 14 we need 1500000 experience points while to reach 15 we need 1875000, which would require us to subtract an additional level.
All this of course must be planned in advance, before you create your character as the fighter class would come first.
The thief reaches level forty at eight million experience, which is the cap. In order to dual class we need some experience to use.
So a thief reaches level thirty-nine at 6380000 exp.
That means we have 8000000 - 6380000 = 1620000 experience points remaining.
So looking at the experience charts we see that to reach level 14 we need 1500000 experience points while to reach 15 we need 1875000, which would require us to subtract an additional level.
All this of course must be planned in advance, before you create your character as the fighter class would come first.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
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Silvanerian
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"Wasting" is not exactly the wording I would choose, but you are correct that if you look at the end result, as in 'what can my character become optimally', then yes. However, you need to take into consideration that first of all you would not have a thief (from this character at least) until after 1,500,000 XP per character. Secondly, he wouldn't regain his fighter abilities after another 1,500,000'ish XP, meaning that if you dual at level 14 and run a group of 6 people, then this particular person would probably not regain his fighter abilities for more than the first half of the game.
So it's a cost/balance decision on 'how strong a fighter do I want for my character compared to how quickly do I need him to be effective as the intended dual class'
Personally, I would second the suggestion about going for a multi class instead of a dual class. You get a ton more High Level Abilities, which are key to non-caster classes in my opinion, and the fighter HLAs are really nice.
Further, some of the Kensai kit bonusses are negated by the higher level regular fighter (thac0), and by default vastly outclassed by the HLAs.
I personally don't understand the reason for dual classing any non solo character after fighter level 9. If you want the extra half attack at level 13, why not multi class instead and get all the benefits of investing so much XP into fighter levels. At the time a level 13 fighter dualled to X regains his fighter abilities a multi classed version would be only about 500,000 XP short of his first high level ability, whereas the dual would be about 1,500,000 XP short.
Shift: Prior deciding on whether to multi or dual class, suggest you read up on a few threads about benefits of multiclassing in order to get the fuller picture.
But consider that if you go for 14 fighter levels then dual, at the time you regain your fighter levels, a multi class would be of the same levels as your dual class *and* by now be getting HLAs, which your dual class would have to wait until thief level 24 which would be at XP 4,580,000 (3,080,000 + 1,500,000). Your dual would also only be getting thief HLAs.
At 4,580,000 XP, your multi fighter thief is level 17 (fighter)/20 (thief) and have 8 HLAs.
Check out the fighter HLA pool here on Gamebanshee to see what you're missing
Lastly, at the XP cap, 8,000,000, your dual will be level 14/39 with 16 thief HLAs, whereas your fighter/thief multi will be level 24/28 with 23 HLAs which you can choose from either pool.
The dual has a bit more HP than the multi on average, but that is the only benefit of a dual in my opinion. (dual fighter-thief with 18 con can have max 191 HPs without items, and multi with 18 con can have 136 HPs without items)
So it's a cost/balance decision on 'how strong a fighter do I want for my character compared to how quickly do I need him to be effective as the intended dual class'
Personally, I would second the suggestion about going for a multi class instead of a dual class. You get a ton more High Level Abilities, which are key to non-caster classes in my opinion, and the fighter HLAs are really nice.
Further, some of the Kensai kit bonusses are negated by the higher level regular fighter (thac0), and by default vastly outclassed by the HLAs.
I personally don't understand the reason for dual classing any non solo character after fighter level 9. If you want the extra half attack at level 13, why not multi class instead and get all the benefits of investing so much XP into fighter levels. At the time a level 13 fighter dualled to X regains his fighter abilities a multi classed version would be only about 500,000 XP short of his first high level ability, whereas the dual would be about 1,500,000 XP short.
Shift: Prior deciding on whether to multi or dual class, suggest you read up on a few threads about benefits of multiclassing in order to get the fuller picture.
But consider that if you go for 14 fighter levels then dual, at the time you regain your fighter levels, a multi class would be of the same levels as your dual class *and* by now be getting HLAs, which your dual class would have to wait until thief level 24 which would be at XP 4,580,000 (3,080,000 + 1,500,000). Your dual would also only be getting thief HLAs.
At 4,580,000 XP, your multi fighter thief is level 17 (fighter)/20 (thief) and have 8 HLAs.
Check out the fighter HLA pool here on Gamebanshee to see what you're missing
Lastly, at the XP cap, 8,000,000, your dual will be level 14/39 with 16 thief HLAs, whereas your fighter/thief multi will be level 24/28 with 23 HLAs which you can choose from either pool.
The dual has a bit more HP than the multi on average, but that is the only benefit of a dual in my opinion. (dual fighter-thief with 18 con can have max 191 HPs without items, and multi with 18 con can have 136 HPs without items)
Qualis Artefix Pereo
Crenshinibon, your advice is often completely factually correct, but it often completely refuses to take into account that other (most?) people have different play styles than you do, and you never ask either or state your advice with a caveat ("if you play with very few chracters in your party, then my advice would be...").
To the original poster I would like to say that Crenshinibon's advice is excellent IF you only play with a few characters (three max, IMO). More than that, and actually achieving 8 mil XP isn't even guaranteed. (and do you have TOB anyway?).
To the original poster I would like to say that Crenshinibon's advice is excellent IF you only play with a few characters (three max, IMO). More than that, and actually achieving 8 mil XP isn't even guaranteed. (and do you have TOB anyway?).
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Silvanerian
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To dual class you need a minimum of 15 in the primary stat(s) of your first class and a minimum of 17 in the primary stat(s) of your second class (the class you dual into).
Eg if you want to dual a fighter to a thief you need a minimum of 15 strength and 17 dexterity.
And yes, only Humans can dual class.
Paladin cannot dual class - they are excellent fighters who sacrifice a little bit to gain extraordinary skills. The Inquisitor has very powerful anti-mage abilities for example.
Multiclassed character have to be non-human. Specific multiclasses are availble only to certain races. You can see these at the character creation screen (greyed out/non-selectable means you need to be a different race to choose that particular multiclass). I believe all non-human races can choose fighter/thieves though.
Regarding party set up and stat distribution I suggest you do some searching on these boards, as there is LOADS of info available.
A few tips on stats:
All characters benefit from having 16 constitution. Fighters and certain races benefit from a con up to your races maximum (17-19). Con gives extra hit points, so this is highly advisable.
It is further usually a good idea to max the primary stat of your class. Eg fighter - strength, mage - intelligence, etc.
Dexterity is usable for better Armour Class, and is advised as high as possible; you gain bonusses from stats 15-18.
Strength is usuable for all characters who wish to do melee combat (hand to hand with a weapon). you gain bonusses from stats 16+.
Of those three, strength is the easiest stat to raise via items, so if you find yourself short of points, dropping strength is the wiser choice of the three.
Intelligence and Wisdom see very limited use outside of mage and cleric classes respectively. A few dialogue options are only available at certain levels in these stats though. None are story critical.
Charisma is usuable to gain better prices at stores and a general better reaction from certain NPCs. Not a critical stat either.
Each stat is described on the character creation sheet, so choose as you wish but keep above in mind, and also whatever suits your roleplaying style.
For a fighter dualled to thief, I recommend minimum:
str: 15
dex:18
con:16
int:9
wis:9
cha:9
For optimal stats, I recommend:
str: 18
dex:18
Con: 16-18
Int: above 10
Wis: above 9
Cha: 9+
Int makes you more resistant against certain creature attacks and wis above 9 gives you no penalty to lore. Cha of 9-11 yield neither benefits nor disadvantages.
For your fighter thief - choose proficiencies in a weapon that you can backstab with.
Eg if you want to dual a fighter to a thief you need a minimum of 15 strength and 17 dexterity.
And yes, only Humans can dual class.
Paladin cannot dual class - they are excellent fighters who sacrifice a little bit to gain extraordinary skills. The Inquisitor has very powerful anti-mage abilities for example.
Multiclassed character have to be non-human. Specific multiclasses are availble only to certain races. You can see these at the character creation screen (greyed out/non-selectable means you need to be a different race to choose that particular multiclass). I believe all non-human races can choose fighter/thieves though.
Regarding party set up and stat distribution I suggest you do some searching on these boards, as there is LOADS of info available.
A few tips on stats:
All characters benefit from having 16 constitution. Fighters and certain races benefit from a con up to your races maximum (17-19). Con gives extra hit points, so this is highly advisable.
It is further usually a good idea to max the primary stat of your class. Eg fighter - strength, mage - intelligence, etc.
Dexterity is usable for better Armour Class, and is advised as high as possible; you gain bonusses from stats 15-18.
Strength is usuable for all characters who wish to do melee combat (hand to hand with a weapon). you gain bonusses from stats 16+.
Of those three, strength is the easiest stat to raise via items, so if you find yourself short of points, dropping strength is the wiser choice of the three.
Intelligence and Wisdom see very limited use outside of mage and cleric classes respectively. A few dialogue options are only available at certain levels in these stats though. None are story critical.
Charisma is usuable to gain better prices at stores and a general better reaction from certain NPCs. Not a critical stat either.
Each stat is described on the character creation sheet, so choose as you wish but keep above in mind, and also whatever suits your roleplaying style.
For a fighter dualled to thief, I recommend minimum:
str: 15
dex:18
con:16
int:9
wis:9
cha:9
For optimal stats, I recommend:
str: 18
dex:18
Con: 16-18
Int: above 10
Wis: above 9
Cha: 9+
Int makes you more resistant against certain creature attacks and wis above 9 gives you no penalty to lore. Cha of 9-11 yield neither benefits nor disadvantages.
For your fighter thief - choose proficiencies in a weapon that you can backstab with.
Qualis Artefix Pereo