GameBanshee Forums

For some reason I don't have the stamina to finish games anymore. I get 1/4 to 3/4 through and then I switch to another game. It is like a rotation.

I don't like the completion of the game. Its more I like the wonder of being really amazed. But then you play forever and that wonder gets dulled. But I miss the completion factor.

im the same way i play morrowwind, champions of naorrath, fight night round 3, and nhl 07. i guess its just whatever im in the mood for. ive started ff10x2 and ff12 and never finished them.

Claudius wrote:For some reason I don't have the stamina to finish games anymore. I get 1/4 to 3/4 through and then I switch to another game. It is like a rotation.

When that happens, it's usually because the game gets dull after a while or because of numerous technical glitches, for me at least. I played Gothic 3 halfway and then I quit cold turkey because of clunky combat, lots of bugs and poor performance.

In the case of Oblivion, after 1/4 through the game, I stopped playing. It's just plain dull. As for the Witcher, I stopped playing halfway because of performance issues and the game feels like a drag after a while. Not to mention that my attention shifted to Call of Duty 4 during the holidays.

Yes, I get that too. Fable, Jade Empire, Oblivion.. etc. But I wonder if it isn't more a mix of games getting a little duller and my criticism becoming more constructive. Fortunately it has stopped me from buying as many games at random as I used to. That has to count for something.

Claudius wrote:
I don't like the completion of the game. Its more I like the wonder of being really amazed. But then you play forever and that wonder gets dulled. But I miss the completion factor.

I can relate to some extent. It takes me a long time to get through games. This is mainly because I always reach a point in my playing where I decide to start over so that I can experience a new class, do things slightly differently, etc. Somewhere in the middle of the replay, I get bored. I've seen and explored almost everything, already. As a byproduct, I either quit the game for months/forever, or I battle through the game fatigue to get to the ending. All to often, the former happens.

That's probably due to a quality deficit that most modern games are plagued by. I mean, compare Morrowind to Oblivion. Morrowind had areas that were geographically diverse, oponents that were objectively tough or easy to kill, different architectural styles in different regions and cultures, there were the incentive to explore and finish the game, even just for the sake of viewing totally different areas. On the contrary, in Oblivion most areas look the same, opponents get tougher as you progress, thus there is no meanning in levelling since you can never become strong enough etc. Neverwinter 2, another modern classic, despite the fact that role-playing and interracting with NPCs is better, it is so much battle-oriented that it gets dull and tiresome after a while. Generally, I have the feeling that RPG designers are more console-oriented nowdays.

Neph57 wrote:Generally, I have the feeling that RPG designers are more console-oriented nowdays.

And try to aim at a wide audience made up of those who play different genres and casual gamers. The dev's mentality, I still don't understand. Is there a persistent thinking that those people who are console gamers, those who play different genres and the casual gamers are dumb (hence the reason to dumb down games)?

If you aim for a wider audience, you're also aiming for a less committed audience, especially if you start targetting casual gamers. They want to play and experience a game with as less fuss as possible.
Yes, I do believe the average younger (console) gamer is dumber/more shallow/lazier than what we would describe as "an RPG veteran." (Which, conveniently, includes most of the people who post here. )

Somebody really should make an RPG that is aimed at "RPG veterans" only. I'd really like to see sommething like that. There hasn't been a game like that in a long time and I have never played a game like that.

The very reason I'm reinstalling BG2 as I'm writing this, even though I'm sick of D&D. Gotta need lots of stamina for this title, but at least it's a half decent game. I guess I'm just tired of every other game being not even.. half to my satisfaction? Yet I keep playing them like a bad habit.

Ronan wrote:Somebody really should make an RPG that is aimed at "RPG veterans" only. I'd really like to see sommething like that. There hasn't been a game like that in a long time and I have never played a game like that.

We never demanded exclusivity. Rather think of it as "a game that could also appeal to people who played games that required two buttons, the ability to read composed sentences (Not sure if this is the right English word, I mean a sentence with two or more conjugated verbs and corresponding subjects.) and who don't freak out if the graphics aren't photo-realistic.

I'll sign up for this
I did finish the Witcher because I found it to be a quality game, but a game like Oblivion - well, DuhBlivion can play itself so it doesn't need me. I haven't even finished Mask of the Betrayer to NwN2 (yet), despite having it since release.

The (lack of) quality of games is definitely a factor, but I think it runs deeper then just that.
Sure, the quality and dumping down of games aka Oblivion for example; level scaling, teleportation, huge quest markers and the game making decisions for you in quests, console controls etc .... all that smacks of dumping down a game.
It is because the RPGs since BG2 have begun to become even more mainstream, that means they have to reach a bigger market segment, thus they have to start cater for the lowest denominator to sell more games. This waters down the genre to RPG-lite, because now suddenly it is a crime to be stuck in a game, and actually needing to think. (Who here remembers the "old" adventure games, where puzzles were so difficult that you'd have to wait 2 months for a walk through to be published in a magazine, so you could move on to the next one ).

However this is only part of the equation - we're also "experienced" now. Computer games and computerized entertainment is not a new area anymore - it has matured. This means we as players have "seen it all" so to speak. It is difficult to introduce a plot we haven't seen (Uhh, I have a memory loss and need to discover who I am .... :laugh: )
It's like the movie industry - I can't remember the last time I got surprised at a plot-twist in neither a movie nor a computer game (and no, I did not get surprised at SW:KOTOR, that was so obvious a mile away, I mean ... come on ). This makes it more difficult for game producers to find something to draw us in and compete with the games we grew up with purely on the nostalgia factor.
I still install games from the early 90's and play them (thanks DOSBox) to a much higher degree then I do current games, simply because of quality combined with nostalgia, which is difficult to compete with now.
Last I played extensively was Master of Magic - fun fun fun. Even had a "competition" with a guy at work (my age as well) who also played at the same time, and he's not a "gamer" anymore - but these old games still grip him as well.

So while I do think a large part of the reason is dumping down and watering down RPGS (thank you Bethesda), it is also because we've as consumers and players have grown accustomed to the genre. It is hard to come with something new for players like us, so they just target the inexperienced and the twitch gamers that much more who put more emphasis on graphics and fast action gameplay, thus further more dumping down the games.

Hmm, I usually abandon a game almost at the start if I don't like it (PS:T and Arcanum). I play very few games, and generally prefer to finish them, before starting a new game. But I don't seem to be able to finish NWN2-MotB right now. Every time I manage to get those 2 precious hours to do my own thing before going to work I end up modding instead of playing. Time's just so hard to come by. I don't connect it to the quality of the game though. I am actually interested in MotB, and what's going to happen next. I guess, I just want to get that kind of lovely atmoshpere when nothing was pressing, all time was my own to play and enjoy it fully.

As for buying games, I only buy a game if I know I will love it, after looking at the reviews from the folks I know, and while lots of people ridicule my rigid views on what I will NOT buy ever, it generally works okay for me.

Possibly, because I play so few games, I still see innovations and cool stuff. For example, JE twists surprised and excited me.

Domi_Ash wrote:Hmm, I usually abandon a game almost at the start if I don't like it; in all my gaming history it only happened twice - with PS:T and Arcanum.

*suffers a seizure and a heartstroke*

Heh, I haven't been able to get over PST's tragically slow beginning either. I'm saving the entire game for a rainy week.

GawainBS wrote:*suffers a seizure and a heartstroke*

Why act so surprised? You may like those games but that doesn't mean everyone will like them. And I agree with Domi Ash. If you don't like a particular game, why force yourself to continue playing it?

This thread surprises me and it doesn't. I guess I'm one of the only people left who never seriously starts a game (as in not just "check it out", but start it to really play it) without finishing. Even if a game pounds on my head with hamers of boring (like Baldur's Gate), I still finish it.
Well, ok, there are some games I don't finish, that's those with game-stopping bugs or unplayable mechanics. But those are pretty much it.

Ronan wrote:Somebody really should make an RPG that is aimed at "RPG veterans" only. I'd really like to see sommething like that. There hasn't been a game like that in a long time and I have never played a game like that.

Eschalon: Book I's target audience is very clearly "old-school RPG players".

Which is a shame, because it means the game doesn't really move the genre forward in narrative or, well, anything. But it's good at what it does.

DesR85 wrote:Why act so surprised? You may like those games but that doesn't mean everyone will like them. And I agree with Domi Ash. If you don't like a particular game, why force yourself to continue playing it?

It was an exageration.

It's not a matter of stamina with me that, being semi-retired time isn't a factor. I usually finish what I've started, if I don't it's because I didn't like the game. That's only happened with two games in recent times, Divine Divinity (just got too boring), and NWN2 MotB. I forced myself to get half way through NWN2 before the excruciatingly bad game design became more than I could tolerate. I managed to finish KOTOR2, despite its many flaws, got through Oblivion twice (the second time so I could play the Servants of the Dawn mod), but NWN2 was a bad game too far.

Heh, I haven't been able to get over PST's tragically slow beginning either. I'm saving the entire game for a rainy week.

I think I tried 3 or 4 times, and I mean 'gritting my teeth in frustration by trying desperately to get on with it' kind of trying, and then I started to mod it, and did not have time for it as the changes had to be pretty serious... so I think I am done with it for good. I am keeping my eye on the Planescape Trilogy for NWN2 though because I find the setting clever and fun.

Overoll though - don't like it, don't play it is my attitude. Sometimes, I think, the smallest thing can turn a person off the game, and sometimes there is simply no reason for it, if it doesn't strike a proper cord. Luckily, there are quite a few good games out - well, in my terms. I am sure that people who have more time will disagree, but I have to confess that I am overwhelmed by the amount of games to play in the next 2 years (ME this May, a few NWN2 mods and DA in 2009). And yes, I can't finish MotB and have not even started KOTOR 2.