spectral brand

[Dradeel]

This is my frist post, so I hope I´m not asking a stupid question. I´ve played trough BG1, ToSC, BG2, ToB many times and have made some interesting builds. After reading this forum in detail, I have decided to build a Kensai24/Thief 27, and strat from Candleceep on.
I have decided to use Spectral Brand as main weapon in the future, but am unsure for offhand weapon. I`ve narrovd dovn the choice to:
-Scarlet ninja-To
-Hindo`s doom
The question is what to put in my off hand. I will be wearing human flesh so MR shouldnt be a problem. That is why I`m sort of going for Scarlet ninja-to. If anybody has a better idea of for offhand please give me an opinion and proof. I plan to have *** in dual w. and ***** for katanas and scimitars.

[Crenshinibon]

You are going to start the game from the very beginning, fully equipped and leveled?

I think that the Scarlet Ninja-To would be fine for the extra attack per round, however I'd use Staff of the Ram +6 for backstabbing and Jan's armor for physical resistance instead of the Human Flesh +5.

If you choose the Scarlet Ninja-To, you won't have to put any points into katanas and instead can invest in staves. There are only two noteworthy magical katanas in the game and in ToB, they just don't do as much as other weapons could.

[Dradeel]

So far I have only made a Kensai level 1. I have points in scimitars and DW. I don`t want to go further without a plan. This is going to be my strongest character ever so I don`t want to do anything I`ll regret.
I`ve never used that staff, however I know its stats. Now that I think of it, this is a great idea. I completely forgot about that staff. Is it possible for this character to have 3 points in dual w., 5 point in scimitars and staffs and 3 points in two handed weapon?

[Saros]

I think that making a powerful Kensai/Thief is more about survivability rather than about melee power. Anyway, your Kensai will have a bonus of 8 points to both THAC0 and damage at lvl 24. The thing here is defense. While Human Flesh will be more than welcome in some combat situations, you indeed will want to rely more often to Jansen's adventurewear superior protections, which, combined with the Belt of Inertial Barrier, Hardiness and Defender of Easthaven flail, will grant you 85 percent melee damage resistance and 90 percent missile damage resistance.

This said, your Kensai should invest at least 1 point in Flails(best 2). Also, 1 point in Warhammers will be good(better 2 for CF). I personally think that the best melee offensive combination will be Crom Faeyr main hand and Scarlet Ninjato off hand, but this doesn't mean at all that you need proficiency points in Scimitars, because with or without them, you will most probably hit every time with your off hand due to the Kensai bonuses. In addition, due to the exact same bonuses, you'll most probably won't need at all the third star in two weapon fighting style.

If you spend five points in Warhammers, you'll have 3 attacks with your main hand, and the Scarlet will add 2 more to that: equals five, with Improved haste 10, the maximum available. If the style is defensive, you'll wield CF main and DoE off, with Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, the number of attacks will be 9, and the defensive bonuses listed above will be available. Now, I know that backstabbing is important, that's why it's wise to invest 2 points in a one handed pointed melee weapon of your choosing(I'd say long sword, since they're easy to obtain in both BG1, BG2 and ToB(WK, Angurvadal), and as many as you can in Staff.

[Dradeel]

My strenght is currently 18. After BG1 it will be 19 (tomes), ater hell trial 20, after Machine of Lum the mad 21 and the deck of many things makes 22. Crom will give me only three points more. is it worth it? I will already have the strength equal to angurvadal.
But yes , damage prevention is more important than damage dealing. I think I am going to invest in flails for DoE, instead of scarlet ninja-to. Would Spectral brand sill be a good choice for main or should I pick sth else and completely forget about scimitars?

[thebannedone]

First of all you should make it 25/27(kensai/thief). First you should go with longswords in bg1, then keep using them until you get the flail of ages, use that as your main weapon until you get blackrazor(though using the FoA against mages is recommended for the elemental dmg and slow effect which halfs their spell casting speed, especially useful against the last boss etc.) Blackrazor will raise your str to 25 from its 23 default after you get all the perma bonuses (its +2str from the hell trial) with one hit, so using crom fayer is kinda pointless, except against trolls and clay golems but putting points to warhammers just for those is pretty pointless. Blackrazor also has many other beneficial effects like fear and charm immunity which will be helpful since a humans saves will be low enough for certain charm effects to get trough and symbol of fears etc. which are pretty much instant death when you solo. I'd put points to longsword, flail and bastard sword. Points to bastard swords cause you can use the purifier sword which is great against mages in off hand for the 20-30%mr(especially with FoA), and FoeBane can also be used as a nice main weapon. Before you get UAI ability you need to rely on a shield amulet for ac for both the kensai(especially the kensai) and the thief perioids, thief can use jans armor while getting base ac from the amulet(until and if you get bracers of ac 3). 1 point could be put to staffs for backstabbing while kensai class is disabled, but if your gonna dual wield its just a bother to always swap to a staff for few extra points of dmg, and when you have gained UAI i'd rather go using full plate mail than jans armor against melee opponents and the +5 human flesh in a fights where enemies would only rely on magic. I say full plate cause it will give you an ac of -13 of using DoE in offhand (-15 after hell trial) with the correct items, or -19 with a shield, and with those ac's you'd be fine in SoA atleast, of course against dragons, iron golems(adamantite) and WK creatures (if you choose to do it in SoA) you'd be better off using Jans armor. And when you get to ToB and the ac wont be enough anymore swap to Jans and if you have collected all the pantaloons get the BMU and then you'd have enough AC for even normal mobs in ToB, but its still not enough for some of the bosses so Jan's is for them, and in some places you cant use it cause of size issues. Of course you cant hide with the full plate and BMU, but thats why theres invisibility rings and pots to utilize backstabbing if you really need it. I wouldnt use the spectral brand as a main weapon, only for the dancing sword for nifty protection in tough spots since level drain immunity can be gained from the amulet of power. But to answer the original question of what weapon to put in offhand, i'd say Defender of Eastheaven against melee opponents when your ac isnt enough, Scarlet Ninja To if your aiming for the fastest killing speed without so much regard to protection(if you got with this then you'd best be collecting all the stoneskin and magic weapon protection scrolls), a shield if you wanna aim to be hard to hit which also works for this build(not necessery with BMU though), and Purifier against spellcasters(not that the extra dmg bonus against chaotic evil opponents would go to waste in melee either since its also added to the main weapon if you wield it in off hand). So i'd max longswords and flail's and rest to bastard swords, 1 point to maces(to use the mace of disruption which is a definite winner in SoA against undead, and should be gotten as soon as possible and upgraded for the level drain protection that you wont get until you get UAI to use amulet of power), 2 points would be enough in two weapon style really since you'd still hit anything just fine. You could also use the Axe of Unyielding as your main weapon especially if you like the AC approach more, but i dont really recommend it since you'd get to upgrade it so late in the game, and its not so useful against bosses as Blackrazor, FoeBane or FoA is, and its vorpal hit can be saved with a -4 modifier. But on the other hand BlackRazors 15% level drain without save for 4 levels is quite handy since level draining your opponents will lower its thac0, its hp(so extra dmg basicly), its saving throws(though this is more useful with a kensai/mage), and you can kill your opponent by draining all its levels though this destroys loot but usually if your able to do this the opponent didnt have anything worth looting anyways(well usually hehe), and level drain works almost on everything but undead, not to mention its +3 to str per hit and 15% chance for 20 points of healing(which occurs sametime with the level drain) are nice qualities aswell. Also Spectral Brand would not be a good choice as the main weapon for this build, especially since you can upgrade it so late in ToB.

[Saros]

My strenght is currently 18. After BG1 it will be 19 (tomes), ater hell trial 20, after Machine of Lum the mad 21 and the deck of many things makes 22. Crom will give me only three points more. is it worth it? I will already have the strength equal to angurvadal.
But yes , damage prevention is more important than damage dealing. I think I am going to invest in flails for DoE, instead of scarlet ninja-to. Would Spectral brand sill be a good choice for main or should I pick sth else and completely forget about scimitars?

Flails is also important for FoA, which will be your main weapon more than you think. First, it's much easier to forge FoA than CF. Second, its Slow effect is of immense help in all fights. And finally, it has excellent upgrade in ToB.

Actually, after all things stated, your Str will be 23(since in Hell you'll get +2 str instead of +1). And yes, it matters. Str 23 grants you +5 THAC0 and +11 dmg, while 25 gives +7 THAC0 and +14 dmg.

You can, however, join temporarily 2 Clerics(anomen and Viconia), and bring them to lvl 25, then take their Holy Symbols and dismiss them. The Symbols will add +2 bonus to your Strength and 10% magic resistance as well.

Long Swords ** and Warhammers ** will be sufficient for backstabbing with Angurvadal main and CF off. Katanas deal more damage, but Hindo's doom +4 comes way later than Angurvadal +4. Besides, in BG1 I don't know if they're any good katanas, while LS are easy to find.
Staff of Striking will provide you with a great backstabbing weapon, but only with potions of Storm/Cloud giant strength consumed. In any other case, Angurvadal + CF will deal a lot more backstab damage.
FoA and DoE will provide with both offensive and defensive power, so ** in Flails is essential.
Plate Mails are useless. Indeed, your Kensai may reach very low AC with good items, yet, what's the point while each and every enemy in WK and ToB will be able to hit you often despite your amazing AC. The only indeed useful Plate is Ekindu's plate, due to the immunity to Backstab it provides. Yet, for a Kensai/Thief, the Thieves' Hood and Jansen's adventurewear are a way better choice.
** in Warhammers is good, because sometimes you'll need to use CF main hand: vs Golems and Trolls. But indeed, any more may seem useless.
However, investing in Flails (*****) is better in this case.
IMHO, forget about Scimitar proficiencies. They're for Fighter/Druids.

[Thrifalas]

I don't know HOW many times I'll have to repeat myself here:

Crom Faeyr is one of the worst weapons for backstabbers. The game is designed in such a way that it adds the str damage after the backstab damage, thus 25 str will give you only 2-3 points of extra damage even in a backstab.

22-23 str will do fine, spare your offhand to something more valuable. I would obviously recommend the Staff of the Ram since it's the only way to get your backstab really high. If you really want to dual-wield, your weapons of choice should be decided by your current situation, but spectral brand+hindo's doom is definitely an okay choice.

[Dradeel]

I don't know HOW many times I'll have to repeat myself here:

Crom Faeyr is one of the worst weapons for backstabbers. The game is designed in such a way that it adds the str damage after the backstab damage, thus 25 str will give you only 2-3 points of extra damage even in a backstab.

22-23 str will do fine, spare your offhand to something more valuable. I would obviously recommend the Staff of the Ram since it's the only way to get your backstab really high. If you really want to dual-wield, your weapons of choice should be decided by your current situation, but spectral brand+hindo's doom is definitely an okay choice.

Thank you for this interesting piece of information. Never realized it.

I am only interested in this. Has anybody ever tried blackrazor with 23 strenght. I don`t want to get the same effect as with a certain rod that when you add a certain ring and something nice happens, becouse of capped atributes at 25. Is this achieved only trough permanent effects or will blackrazors bonuses stop at strenght 25? I know it`s not possible to get 26.

However, flails are an obvious choice. Foa or DoE will do fine in my case, depending on the situation, Ram for backstabbing. FoA swiched for non mage fights.

[Dradeel]

To anwser Saros.

There are no katanas in BG1. But there are 2 VERY nice scimitars (+3, +5) obtainable from a certain black dude. Not comparable to anything from BG2 or ToB but for BG1 they pretty much rule over all other dual combinations. That is why the thread is Spectral brand. In order to get trough BG1 as quickly as possible I`ve decided to use those two since I imagined that after ToB I could use spectral brand. I am however inclined to put points in longswords already in BG1 for SoA, or simply go for Celestial fury and DoE, or Belm.

I will be forced to make a party after dualclassing, becouse for the duration of the inactive Kensai I still won`t be able to wear Armor, Bracers.. and the rest of restrictions are ther as well. This was obtainable at this forum so I never tried it jet, but it`s what the people are saying.

[thebannedone]

When you make a hit with Blackrazor your str will be raised by 3 points for a bit over 3 rounds, the bonus is cumulative so you could have like 10 str and still get it to 25str if you get enough hits in fast enough, and yeah you cant go past 25str. The hit and damage difference between 23str and 25str is +2 thac0 and +3 damage, so basicly Blackrazor does more dmg directly than a +4 katana or a +5 longsword if you add the +3 damage from str which gives it 7-14 base damage when the +4 katana would only have 5-14 and a +5 longsword 6-13. So using a sword like Hindo's Doom +4 would be pointless since its damage is so low and your saves should be good enough by that point that the death ward is useless, only the greater restoration could be handy but its an ability better used if you have a big party, since solo you just rely on a res rod for healing. Putting 1 point to katanas wouldnt be a waste though since theres Celestial Fury, which is a great normal mob killer in SoA.

[Gorlam]

giant ****ing wall of text

banned, please use paragraphs, it makes reading long winded posts much more comfortable on the eyes and less of a strain, especially with the text being a light tan color against a brown background.

[dzidek1983]

Highr strength of the CF gives you also big Thaco boost, which is far more usefull than the damage. If you can't hit them, than what's the point

But if you have Spectral Brand, it has that nifty option of raising your Thaco for a while, this makes CF some of useless.
I would go for the Scarlet for the extra attack + improved haste + assasination

for normal backstabbing single spectral brand is better